Bi-Facial vid I found interesting
- Thread starter Crowz
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DIYrich
Solar Wizard
I saw that. Don't know how that helps with rooftop solar.
BentleyJ
Solar Wizard
Interesting how sometimes things that seem counter intuitive turn out to be worth looking into. Seems like installation with regard to racking design and assembly would be much faster especially in a large ground mount project. Wonder if the output could be improved even more if the panels could be tilted just a few degrees in either direction as the sun passes over.
mburke6
New Member
This dang video sent me down a rabbit hole. Could this setup be used as a residential fence in a tightly packed neighborhood? Would it be safe? Could one wire such a system so that it is both DIY and safe? What if the neighbor backed into it with the car and knocked a section down?
In the US, installing panels on the roof is one of the biggest costs for a system. The primary reason I don't have solar is because I don't have enough roof that slopes in the right direction, but I do have a yard that could use a fence! But how to make it safe?
In the US, installing panels on the roof is one of the biggest costs for a system. The primary reason I don't have solar is because I don't have enough roof that slopes in the right direction, but I do have a yard that could use a fence! But how to make it safe?
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
As usual, matt farrell is being deliberately misleading for views.
The result is not "vertical mounting is better than angled".
The result is "pvwatts says vertical mounting should suck, but it actually sucks slightly less than expected, in a computer model".
Angled mounting will still vastly outperform vertical mounting.
The result is not "vertical mounting is better than angled".
The result is "pvwatts says vertical mounting should suck, but it actually sucks slightly less than expected, in a computer model".
Angled mounting will still vastly outperform vertical mounting.
KevinC_63559
New Member
I'm still in the "Where should I put my panels" mode (compliments of living on a farm I have both space and no regulations). Vertical looks interesting since it would eliminate snow load (and benefit from snow on the ground) and that is going to be the scenario where I would get the least power of the year. With panels being one of the least cost items in the system, I've no problem with just adding more.
So the question becomes: Just how "vastly" is vastly? Again, focus is on cloudy, snow covered, days since those are the ones I'm most likely going to lose grid power on.
Ah, finished the video. The image of using solar panels as fencing is intriguing - But how the hell are those things wired? I have miles of barb wiring fencing on the farm, but the wiring cost of running 48V wiring for standard inverters is staggering. My guess is they are running those at a much high voltage and using non-household inverters and charge controllers. Finally, as displayed, field grass is going to seriously shade those panels and I doubt they are designed to handle being hit with weed wackers for clearing (especially the blade types we actually use on farms, not the relatively wimpy plastic wire types). FYI - if you don't clean the grass at least yearly, soon there will be brush and trees growing on those runs.
So the question becomes: Just how "vastly" is vastly? Again, focus is on cloudy, snow covered, days since those are the ones I'm most likely going to lose grid power on.
Ah, finished the video. The image of using solar panels as fencing is intriguing - But how the hell are those things wired? I have miles of barb wiring fencing on the farm, but the wiring cost of running 48V wiring for standard inverters is staggering. My guess is they are running those at a much high voltage and using non-household inverters and charge controllers. Finally, as displayed, field grass is going to seriously shade those panels and I doubt they are designed to handle being hit with weed wackers for clearing (especially the blade types we actually use on farms, not the relatively wimpy plastic wire types). FYI - if you don't clean the grass at least yearly, soon there will be brush and trees growing on those runs.
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B-Mod
Solar Enthusiast
hwy17
Anti-Solar Enthusiast
Use pvwatts. And download the hourly data to really look into the simulated winter days.
Then you can compare that benefit to the snow shedding benefit. Maybe it's worth taking a little hit in theoretical production to get the panels up 45 or higher to shed. But the optimum winter angle will probably already be steeper than 45 anyway.
Andrewr05
[Replicant 42069]
Fantastic video
marionw
Solar Enthusiast
What appears to make vertical mounted "BIFACIAL" performance better is heat dissipation of the panels and nothing more. These still have the same photovoltaic cells as others except that the backside is clear and not opaque. I bought 550 watt PERC half cell only because I did not have a mounting option to take advantage of photon capture from the back. PERC is a technology that incorporates a "photon mirror" underneath the cells to reflect photons back through the cells. Proper mounting can help reduce heat buildup by ensuring adequate airflow underneath the panels
Pi Curio
Sunlicious
B-Mod
Solar Enthusiast
Posted 5 messages above, lol.
KevinC_63559
New Member
He actually recommends mixing S with E/W facing. South bifacial is going to suffer a bit from its own shadow, something E/W doesn't have a problem with. By mixing, apparently you smooth the curve. Total power/day vs. traditional south facing tilted panels is about 2/3rds on sunny, no snow (or limestone graveled) days, but slightly better than traditional on snow covered days. However, that is comparing full power days to minimal powered (e.g. bottom of the barrel power generating days).
Another concept he points out is that traditional south tilted can often produce more power than the charge controller can handle on great solar days, "clipping" the actual power stored and/or inverted. That point seems like a system design concern to me though e.g. Balancing around typical power input vs optimizing for the best days, which are not that frequent.
KevinC_63559
New Member
My biggest concern with this concept is the wiring cost. In the fencing model it feels like the cabling cost is going to be huge. How do the big solar farms deal with that? Microinverters converting to 110V or 220V or more? How does one safely control that? e.g. If you need to service some wiring (say a farm animal has started chewing through some conduit, or worse, wires), how do you service that group of panels? Only work at night? Probably not an issue at 48V as much as if its micro-converted to 110+.
DIYrich
Solar Wizard
Strings of 500v to huge inverters that is transformed to 33kv for transmission.
Kiwi2000
Solar Enthusiast
When you've got a decently sized battery bank, the time of your solar production isn't as critical. The total solar production for the day is what counts.
I don't see the slight increase in the shoulders of the daily curve making up for the large dip in midday production when your number one goal for the day is recharging a battery bank.
I don't see the slight increase in the shoulders of the daily curve making up for the large dip in midday production when your number one goal for the day is recharging a battery bank.
AlaskanNoob
Solar Enthusiast
- Joined
- Feb 20, 2021
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I have 14 x 440W bifacial panels currently straight up and down and pointing directly south on a snowy day. Yesterday it was overcast the entire day and the panels produced about 6.5 KWh of power for the day. We have 12 hours currently between sunrise and sunset. In case that gives you some kind of idea.
agreed, all pointsSimilar threads
