BMS for Schneider Conext

[400bird]

I am looking to add a Schneider Conext XW pro for battery storage to my existing solar.

Currently I have a 6kw Solar Edge inverter.
I installed this system myself along with the 20 panels on the roof and the critical loads panel.

I suppose I am not stuck on the Schneider, but it is rated to provide enough current to start and run my AC.


The question I have, does anyone know what BMS's can communicate on the RS485 the Conext gateway provides for the battery? I can't find any that do. There is some old literature that the 48v LG resu would work. But I think that LG discontinued that battery?

Thanks in advance!

 

[hammick]

400bird did you ever figure out how to make a BMS communicate with the RS485 on the Conext Gateway or Conext Combox?

 

[400bird]

Schneider is slow as mud with software releases and apparently uncooperative with vendors to get things approved.

My system plans have been put on hold, but in theory Batrium is working on the modbus map to work with the Conext gateway.

 

[hammick]

Schneider is slow as mud with software releases and apparently uncooperative with vendors to get things approved.

My system plans have been put on hold, but in theory Batrium is working on the modbus map to work with the Conext gateway.

Thanks for the info. Schneider hasn't had updated firmware for equipment for years. My XW5548 has a lithium setting buy my MPPT 60 150 does not. I think I'm just going to use a simple 200a BMS for now and upgrade to something that can works with the XW down the road.

 

[hammick]

Got some great news from the tech department at Orion. Looks like their Jr. 2 BMS has the ability put the inverter and CC into standby separately and also just as important take the inverter and CC out of standby. See the emails below.


"Hi Brian,

Answering your technical question here, we have experimental support for connecting with the Schneider Conext equipment via CANBUS (interfacing with their "XANBUS" version of the protocol). This provides the BMS the ability to terminate the inverter and charge controller separately, but not control their current limits dynamically (EG: it is an ON / OFF type operation).

Schenider is fairly cagey about who they work with for official support, so our methods are somewhat round-about but they do at least provide that level of functionality.

Thanks!
Andrew"

"Andrew thank you very much for the response. The ability to terminate the inverter and charge controller separately is all I need. Would this function be available to me presently if I bought an Orion BMS2 Jr?

Once the condition is no longer present on the BMS will my Schneider inverter and/or charger controller resume operation?"


"Hi Brian,

Yes, this functionality is available with the JR 2 (currently we do not have it in our one-click setup wizard but we can assist you directly when you get to this stage). And yes, once the termination conditions are resolved, the equipment would be switched back on as expected.

Thanks!
Andrew"



Thanks,



Brian

 

[shorawitz]

I think my decision for a new BMS has been made for me. How fast did Orion take to respond? I'm wondering though, if they were able to hack XANBUS, I wonder if I could do it too (I could put on my Python || C++ nerd hat and have a go at it.)

 

[hammick]

I think my decision for a new BMS has been made for me. How fast did Orion take to respond? I'm wondering though, if they were able to hack XANBUS, I wonder if I could do it too (I could put on my Python || C++ nerd hat and have a go at it.) View attachment 29818

Andrew got back to me pretty quick. Ampster believes he is the owner of the company and head of their tech support. There may also be an option to actually talk to Andrew I believe after you have purchased one. I am glad to see there might be somebody smarter than me using the Orion Jr.2 with their XW equipment.

I will be ordering my Jr. 2 BMS next week.

 

[shorawitz]

Andrew got back to me pretty quick. Ampster believes he is the owner of the company and head of their tech support. There may also be an option to actually talk to Andrew I believe after you have purchased one. I am glad to see there might be somebody smarter than me using the Orion Jr.2 with their XW equipment.

I will be ordering my Jr. 2 BMS next week.

That's interesting. I won't have my new batteries for over a month, so I'm probably going to wait until Feb/Mar 2021 before I buy my new BMS, but I can hook up a serial cable and take a peek at what's going on with the gateway. I'm torn between spending the $$$ with Orion vs just use a relay and something cheaper. I just wish the Conext Battery Monitor had more functionality (cell monitoring.)

 

[hammick]

That's interesting. I won't have my new batteries for over a month, so I'm probably going to wait until Feb/Mar 2021 before I buy my new BMS, but I can hook up a serial cable and take a peek at what's going on with the gateway. I'm torn between spending the $$$ with Orion vs just use a relay and something cheaper. I just wish the Conext Battery Monitor had more functionality (cell monitoring.)

Yeah if the Conext Battery Monitor had cell monitoring I might have the cojones to go without a BMS. It does have mid-pack voltage so you could monitor two individual cells which is no help.

I am lucky to have the XW equipment. I started with with an SW4048, an MPPT 60-150 and an SCP. My SW4048 blew a big capacitor and spit fire out the vent. My wife was pretty close and it scared the crap out of her. Turns out there was a firmware update to prevent this. A few weeks before this happened Schneider had sent me a Combox and a USB drive. I had no idea why they had sent it until after my inverter blew. Turns out it was sent to update the firmware to prevent the problem. But it came with no explanation of any problems so I just assumed Schneider loved me.

So the SW4048 was pulled off the market and Schneider said it would be at least 6 months before they could get me one. They ended up sending me a pre-wired XW5048 with breakers and genset bypass, the PDP and the Battery Monitor for free. They even offered to pay my installation expenses but I install everything myself expect roof panels.

Ended up being the best fire ever even though it was a nightmare getting the new equipment shipped and up to our place.

 

[shorawitz]

Here's the response I just back from Andrew. Now I'm not so sure about this one.

Hi David,

At this time we do not have official support for the Schneider equipment and therefore cannot offer a guarantee of compatibility. Our internal support for this is still being validated and refined based on user feedback and internal testing. Unfortunately we do not have a specific timeframe for official availability of this functionality, but this remains an ongoing development priority for us.

Thanks!
Andrew

I did notice that Elithion shows on their website that you can order their Vinci-LV BMS with XanBus communications support. I'm going to investigate this one a bit more.

Vinci-LV BMS ordering, centralized topology - Elithion

BMS design and quote request form

www.elithion.com

 

[shorawitz]

I think I may have found my solution. I have been experimenting with using Modbus and the Schneider Conext Gateway to query/control the equipment. I have successfully figured out how to configure the Gateway to use Modbus TCP, using a Python script to query the equipment via Modbus and be able to put the CC and inverter into Standby as well as change the operating mode of the CC to switch to Float and the inverter to Disable/Enable.

I have also found a cell monitoring board that can control discreet relays as well as communicate to a Raspberry Pi via I2C in order to have soft-stop/start as well as hard stop via relays. The board is by GWL:

GWL Cell Performance Monitor | shop.GWL.eu

GWL Cell Performance Monitor -

shop.gwl.eu

I can buy a Raspberry Pi for $30 (a little more w/case) and I can have a full control, fail-safe BMS. GWL also makes 1.7A cell balancing modules for ~$4 a piece. put it all together, that will match up with any commercial high-end BMS and kick butt over the cheaper Chinese BMS's than can only cut the line.

Thoughts, opinions, words of wisdom?

 

[GVSolar]

Build some for sale, I'd be interested. Schneider doesn't seem to want to let any cats out of their Xanbus bag.

 

[shorawitz]

I just might have to do that. I'm going to look at other options too like the Arduino. If I could find other sources for the cell monitor board that could give us options.

 

[hammick]

As of today I have the Orion Jr.2 fully controlling my Schneider Conext inverter and CC. It will put the CC into standby mode on a high cell fault and back to operational mode when the fault clears. No user intervention is required. It does this through the Xanbus network. Same with the inverter on a low cell fault. I will test the over and under temperature shutdown but I suspect it will work since it uses the same charge safety relay and discharge relay.

 

[lithiumbatts]

Hey @hammick I'm also trying to connect my Orion JR 2 to the Schneider Conext (SW 4048 though) over Xanbus but I'm having difficulty. When you connected how did you set everything up on the System Control Panel? Did the Orion show up as a device?

I put in the CAN messages sent from Andrew but haven't had any luck so far..

 

[hammick]

Hey @hammick I'm also trying to connect my Orion JR 2 to the Schneider Conext (SW 4048 though) over Xanbus but I'm having difficulty. When you connected how did you set everything up on the System Control Panel? Did the Orion show up as a device?

I put in the CAN messages sent from Andrew but haven't had any luck so far..

It does not show up as a device. I have mine connected to my Combox with an RJ45 (ethernet) cable. You only use two wires. They are blue and blue/white I believe. I used a wall jack from Lowes to make it easy. See attached photo. I was able to verify I was communicating with Xanbus because the Combox has a Xanbus light. Make sure you put in one of the Xanbus resistor plugs on you last device that has an open Xanbus port.

 

[lithiumbatts]

Thanks for the pictures! Are you able to set SOC-based limits in the inverter based on the SOC sent over CAN by the Orion? And the inverter responds properly to faults? Is there any setup on the SCP side to get it working? Or just plug in

I also have my Xanbus light on but it's on whether the Orion is plugged in or not.. guessing that's because there's also the inverter and SCP on the Xanbus

 

[lithiumbatts]

I tried to connect to the CANBus on my Conext Gateway but word from Schneider is that the only inverter that supports CANBus BMS's is the XW Pro, and unfortunately I have the SW...

 

[lithiumbatts]

Hey @hammick are you using 250kbps for Xanbus or 500kbps on the Orion GUI? I'm having an issue where whenever I connect my Orion the SW disappears from the SCP menu

 

[hammick]

Hey @hammick are you using 250kbps for Xanbus or 500kbps on the Orion GUI? I'm having an issue where whenever I connect my Orion the SW disappears from the SCP menu

250kbps My understanding is that is the only speed that is supported. Make sure the Schneider equipment is also at 250

The BMS has a resistor built in so you only need one resistor plug on the Schneider equipment. If you are also using the Wifi Connect it has a resistor built in so then no resistor plugs on the Schneider equipment.

I have the XW+ not the Pro.