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BMS limiting amperage

doug144

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Mar 26, 2021
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Hi. I'm setting up my travel trailer in steps and had a question before I move on to solar panels. I already replaced my AGM batteries with a DIY LiPo4 battery. Right now I have a 200ah battery with an overkill BMS. I just installed this 2200w inverter. Everything works great, but when I tried to run my microwave, the BMS shuts off the battery because of the initial surge (must be over 130 amps). I guess I forgot to take that into account.

What's the best way to deal with such an issue so that I can try all of my appliances from the inverter?
 
My microwave draws 160 amps continuous. No real surge, just lots of power. I think you need a different BMS or a second battery.

Or consider a Panasonic Inverter microwave replacement. These actually reduce power on lower cook power settings instead of cycling the Megatron at full power like most microwaves. I would assume the microwave is the largest item you would run with just 200 Ah. Keep the hairdryer to medium heat at the highest.
 
Hi. I'm setting up my travel trailer in steps and had a question before I move on to solar panels. I already replaced my AGM batteries with a DIY LiPo4 battery. Right now I have a 200ah battery with an overkill BMS. I just installed this 2200w inverter. Everything works great, but when I tried to run my microwave, the BMS shuts off the battery because of the initial surge (must be over 130 amps). I guess I forgot to take that into account.

What's the best way to deal with such an issue so that I can try all of my appliances from the inverter?
Will posted a great way to get around this using any BMS. I hope someone else will chime in here. But since you have an on off switch capability on your inverter it might work providing you do not have to hold the button to turn the inverter on/off. I have not needed to do this so I can't be of any help other than posting the link to the video.


I also think others have used the BMS to control a high current relay.
 
More simple is to connect an external contactor or power relay which can handle the amps you need towards your inverter.
For example, with an 200A contactor or relay your inverter can pull 12Vx200A=2400Watt out of the battery.
Connect the contactor or relay switch-coil contacts on to the P- of the BMS and the main [+] of the battery.
Connect the contactor or relay switch contacts on to the main [+] of the battery and the [+] contact of the inverter.
When the BMS is triggered by it's safety settings, it will shut off, and then the contact or relay will also shut off.

The only thing you can not manage in this way, is the maximum current drawn from the battery via the contactor or relay.
You can simply manage this by using a Smart Shunt and a Smart Battery Protector, like my hyperlink examples from Victron.
Both can communicatie with each other via the Victron BT app, and there you can set all the safety settings for protection.
Your inverter will have a low voltage cut off protection, just like the Victron Battery Protector, so in this case double protection.

When you often use a big inverter in full power, the battery cells will get quite some load, and the cell balance could get tricky.
In this case you can also decide to use an active cell balancer, to keep you cells balanced in a more powerfull way than the BMS.
The BMS can dissipate voltages with tiny currents, an active cell balancer can do this with higer currents, for faster balancing.
For the costs Will Prowse does not advise to use an active cell balancer in normal <1C load conditions, but with heavy loads you
might want to use one.

See this topic with more or less the same question.
 
My microwave draws 160 amps continuous. No real surge, just lots of power. I think you need a different BMS or a second battery.

Or consider a Panasonic Inverter microwave replacement. These actually reduce power on lower cook power settings instead of cycling the Megatron at full power like most microwaves. I would assume the microwave is the largest item you would run with just 200 Ah. Keep the hairdryer to medium heat at the highest.
160 amps!
What are you cooking?
 
160 amps!
What are you cooking?
160 amps times 12 volt is 1920 Watt, and that's not an exteme load to say. Ok, it's above average in a camper/RV, but let's say you have a small oven, or an airco which always runs for a longer time, together with some other tings. Then it might be good to have engough power on board.
In this case it's maybe not said that the 160 amps are continuous needed, but maybe for shorter periods of time, like peak loads for minutes.

Next to this some people make a too safe power calculation of all their 110V/230V hardware on board. Simply adding all hardware power together.
In practise this situation that all hardware will be used together, and all running at full power will hardly, or even never occur.
 
Victron state that the Smart Battery Protect cannot be used in the high current path to an inverter. It could be used to control a contractor or remote enable on the inverter.

Mike
As far as I know, and read in the manual, it's no problem to connect a Victron Battery Protect in between the main [+] of the battery.
In basics the Victron Battery Protect is designed to be connected in between the battery and the load, and the load can be anything.
(For example: see the manual point 4, how to connect an inverter on to the Battery Protect, without getting the capacitor sparks.)
If, in this case, TS would use a Victron SBP-220 which can handle a continuous load of 220A, in his situation of 160A would work ok.
 
The Overkill Solar 4s BMS has been tested to produce better than the published rated specs. But if your microwave is pulling way more than the 120 amp rating, you're abusing it.

To avoid this problem in my RV, I created two 4s batteries, each with its own Overkill Solar 4s 120 amp BMS. Once I get a 2000 watt inverter I won't have a problem running my microwave. For now, since my current inverter is only 1000 watts, I fire up the on-board generator.

There are a couple threads on the forum where members have put two BMS on the same battery, doubling the amp capacity. I'm not a fan of this method, but it has been shown to work.
 
Okay. Thanks for all the info. I was planning on adding another battery eventually, so I guess just no microwave until then.
 
As far as I know, and read in the manual, it's no problem to connect a Victron Battery Protect in between the main [+] of the battery.
In basics the Victron Battery Protect is designed to be connected in between the battery and the load, and the load can be anything.
Reply from Victron,

You are correct, you may not use the BatteryProtect between a battery and an inverter. All Victron inverters have built-in adjustable low-voltage disconnects, so they don't need any external devices to accomplish that functionality; 3rd-party inverters, well... the programmability of the inverter depends on the manufacturer, and that's a conversation best had with them.

Using a BatteryProtect to directly disconnect the main DC line of an inverter will, sooner or later, destroy the BatteryProtect, and since it's an expressly forbidden configuration, it will not be covered by warranty.


Mike
 
Reply from Victron,

You are correct, you may not use the BatteryProtect between a battery and an inverter. All Victron inverters have built-in adjustable low-voltage disconnects, so they don't need any external devices to accomplish that functionality; 3rd-party inverters, well... the programmability of the inverter depends on the manufacturer, and that's a conversation best had with them.

Using a BatteryProtect to directly disconnect the main DC line of an inverter will, sooner or later, destroy the BatteryProtect, and since it's an expressly forbidden configuration, it will not be covered by warranty.


Mike
Good to know Mike! (y)

It's a bit confusing to read at point [4] of the Victron Battery Protect manual, how to connect an inverter on to the Battery Protect, concerning the capacitor sparks, and then your message from Victron that an inverter 'may not' be connected on to a Battery Connect.
This also counts for some MPPT's of Victron, in the manual it's said that the LOAD connection 'can' be used for small inverters, but in practise more or less everybody will tell you never to use the LOAD connection of a Victron MPPT. It's ment for purposes like solar lights, etc. A bit confusing.

What Victron probably means, is that you 'may not' want to use a Battery Protect in between the battery and a Victron inverter, because a Victron inverter has it's own battery sense connection to shut down at battery low. Double protection is not needed, and when using a too big inverter which could pull more than 220 amps, a 220A Battery Connect finally will not survive.
That also counts for a Battery Protect in between the battery and the load, this will work for sure. But again, you 'may not' want to do this if you can't control unforeseen overloads, what will also kill your Battery Protect.

My exmple with Victron Battery Protect and Smart Shunt for TS still stands, when you stay under a load of 220 amps, and you can't pull more.
Otherwise you'd better use a external contactor/power relay. But then I would like to know how you can do any load limitation/protection.
 
160 amps times 12 volt is 1920 Watt, and that's not an exteme load to say. Ok, it's above average in a camper/RV, but let's say you have a small oven, or an airco which always runs for a longer time, together with some other tings. Then it might be good to have engough power on board.
In this case it's maybe not said that the 160 amps are continuous needed, but maybe for shorter periods of time, like peak loads for minutes.

Next to this some people make a too safe power calculation of all their 110V/230V hardware on board. Simply adding all hardware power together.
In practise this situation that all hardware will be used together, and all running at full power will hardly, or even never occur.
Sorry. I thought that you meant the microwave was using 160 amps directly, but you meant the 160 amps was the battery draw.
160 amps * 120V = 19.2Kw :eek:
It was a pre morning coffee posting by me, hence my confusion.
 
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