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Build a LiFePO4 battery or buy one already made?

I am an engineer with a lot of experience with large 48V and 53V DC power plants. I am normally a DIY type of person. I do my own appliance repairs and I do the maintenance on my own vehicles. I've restored 5 "handy-man special" homes, inluding upgrading thier electrical panels. I also have an extensive collection of tools, meters, etc.. Having said that I would need to buy a variable DC power supply if I decide to put together my own LiFePO4 battery. So I'm sure that I have the skills and tools to build a battery. My quesquestion has more to do with reliability. Unfortunately I don't have any experience with LiFePO4 cells and I don't how reliable they are. So I'd like to hear your opinions on whether ready made 12V batteries more or less reliable than the DIY batteries. I am honestly leaning towards building my own battery, but I don't know how reliable those 3.2V cells are.
We purchased a DC power supply to top-balance our first build. Quickly transitioned to installing Heltec 5a active balancers (with an off/on switch) for subsequent builds. The Heltecs do a fine job of top-balancing. Only takes a few hours with large deltas---smaller deltas, less than an hour. Plus they can be easily switched on to top-balance, as needed, down the road. Rewiring a battery pack, after the fact, to top-balance with a DC power supply is a PITA. The DC power supply has come in very handy for various other electrical projects and testing, but we no longer use it for top-balancing.

Once you start doing DIY builds you'll find the very least of your worries is reliability. Cell failures are extremely rare. BMS's may occasionally fail, but they're very easy to replace. Your biggest concern, by far, is hoping the vendor sells you a well-balanced set of cells. Top-balancing can't fix cells that have inherently different ah capabilities. This is why purchasing from a reputable source is important.
 
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I know from a cost perspective that it's cheaper to put together your own LiFePO4 battery than buy one ready made, but I'm wonering which is more reliable? Assuming that I purchase Grade a cells and good quality BMS.

I've looked at Battle Born, SOK, LiTime, Lion Energy and others. All of which have some sort warranty, some have 10 year, some 5 year, some less. I haven't read all of the warranty documents, but I have read a few. So far everyone I've read says that they will fix or replace the battery at their descretion. Which means that they get to decide if they want to honor their warranty or not. I guess this makes sense because a perfectly good battery can be ruined if connected wrong or treated improperly. What surprised me however was that none of the warrantees covered shipping costs or any of thee damage done in shipping. So it is possible that you could spend more on shipping than the battery is worth, except possibly with a Battle Born. They are still crazy expensive and frankly not in consideration, even though they come with a 10 year warranty. For instance a 12V LiTime 100AH with low temp protection is now selling for $279.99. I can't imagine with it would cost to ship it back and forth to China for repair, but its got to more than $279.99. So in my opinion, the LiTime warranty is basically worthless.

So how reliable are these batteries? Is a DIY LiFePO4 (using grade A cells and good BMS) more reliable than store bought?
If you purchase a battery because it has a warranty, then I hope you value your money more than time.

Even “good” warranties usually involve considerable amounts of your time and energy and money.

But there are exceptions.

For example, I learned recently that the guy who sells the Overkill BMS will replace it for any reason. Even if you make a rookie error and fry it by connecting the positive and negative leads backwards. I believe he’ll simply send you a new one, no need to ship the fried one back.

There was a recent thread on here that demonstrated what looks like Battleborn weaseling their way out of replacing some batteries under warranty. The batteries have a manufacturing defect and the Battleborn warranty was apparently written by weasle like lawyers that gives Battleborn a way out of warranty service for defects made at the factory. In part because of this, Will Prowse has removed Battleborn from his list of recommended lithium batteries.

Build your own and not only will you learn something, you’ll never have to deal with lame companies that would make your hair turn gray if you tried to get warranty service. And buy an Overkill BMS.

IMO, after a ton of research, I found the Powerurus brand to be the best bang for the buck for a premade battery. It’s one of the few Will recommends on his website. I have not had to get mine warrantied, but the customer service has been some of the best I’ve had with any company I’ve ever dealt with. They STILL continue to answer all my post sale questions, usually within 24-48 hours. I paid $730 for 12v 200Ah with 200A BMS, free shipping, free 10a charger, no tax. Will has a good review of the 100Ah model. Powerurus are made by Roypow, which has a good long reputation in the lithium battery world. The BMS is even made by them and has Bluetooth, low and high temperature protection, no self heating though but I can add my own if I ever need that.
 
I choose the DIY route, but I haven't finished the build and my batteries have been collecting dust for 2 months lol. I bought 4 EVE LF304 Grade A Cells from 18650 battery store and they told me I don't need to top balance. But once they arrived and I posted about it here everyone says I need to top balance them. Tbh, that was pretty disappointing and I don't want to be buying a DC power supply just for this.

I also need to harness the batteries so they stay together and don't swell. I drafted a design and sent it to a plastic shop. They said they would build it but its been 2 months and they haven't given me a quote yet. I want stainless threaded rod to compress them and nobody carries that around here so I'll need to go online for that. The other tools I'll need to buy to terminate the wire connectors, but I don't have an issue with that because I'll be re-using them. I also want battery heaters and I haven't found quality heaters that are the size of my cells.

The biggest advantage that I'm holding on to is the ability to grow the battery pack by adding more cells and more BMSes.

I think the cells I bought are quality and I'm wondering what is the impact if they aren't top balanced? I don't understand the concequences of skipping that step and why the 18650 tech support would say I don't need to but people here say I do. My cells are very close in voltage together, I just measured them 3.307v, 3.308v, 3.308v, 3.307. That is a one one-hundred thousandths of a volt difference. Pretty good if you ask me, but I should be the guy buying an already setup pack lol.
 
If UpNorthandPersonal’s experience and recommendation on reliability, along with many others doesn’t speak huge on how reliable these LiFePO4 cells can be nothing will.
My DIY builds much the same in reliability.
Much learning along the way. For those capable its the way to go.
 
I also want battery heaters and I haven't found quality heaters that are the size of my cells.
EDIT: @hardtop i missed a key word, not needed to be exact:

You may be overthinking this one. It’s NOT needed to be exact. You can put the heaters on the cells, between them, or on the battery casing.
 
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I choose the DIY route, but I haven't finished the build and my batteries have been collecting dust for 2 months lol. I bought 4 EVE LF304 Grade A Cells from 18650 battery store and they told me I don't need to top balance. But once they arrived and I posted about it here everyone says I need to top balance them. Tbh, that was pretty disappointing and I don't want to be buying a DC power supply just for this.

I also need to harness the batteries so they stay together and don't swell. I drafted a design and sent it to a plastic shop. They said they would build it but its been 2 months and they haven't given me a quote yet. I want stainless threaded rod to compress them and nobody carries that around here so I'll need to go online for that. The other tools I'll need to buy to terminate the wire connectors, but I don't have an issue with that because I'll be re-using them. I also want battery heaters and I haven't found quality heaters that are the size of my cells.

The biggest advantage that I'm holding on to is the ability to grow the battery pack by adding more cells and more BMSes.

I think the cells I bought are quality and I'm wondering what is the impact if they aren't top balanced? I don't understand the concequences of skipping that step and why the 18650 tech support would say I don't need to but people here say I do. My cells are very close in voltage together, I just measured them 3.307v, 3.308v, 3.308v, 3.307. That is a one one-hundred thousandths of a volt difference. Pretty good if you ask me, but I should be the guy buying an already setup pack lol.

We purchased the same cells from 18650. The voltage was *exactly* the same on all 4 cells (3.302v). Even so, we still needed to top-balance due to excessive deltas (imbalances) when charging above 3.500v.

You could always pass on the top-balance and charge your cells normally with the BMS installed to see how they do. You may get lucky and experience minimal deltas as charge voltages rise from 3.500 - 3.650v. If you don't get lucky (likely), you'll soon discover a high delta negatively impacts (reduces) the overall ah output of the pack. Probably hard to visualize all this at this point, but suffice to say---large deltas (or a "runner" or two) suck. If this continues to occur after a top-balance, odds are you'll be discussing cell "quality" with 18650.

If you decide to top-balance and you don't want to purchase a DC power supply, you do have the option of using a $25-$30 Heltec 4s 5a active balancer (may want to install an on/off switch for a permanent install). The Heltec will top-balance your cells in an hour or two. If you need to perform another top-balance down the road, simply turn on (or use) the Heltec again.

Always lots of debate about compression. We passed on compression due to important space constraints. If our maximum cycle count drops from 4000 to 2000 because we didn't compress we're fine with that.

As for heating the cells/battery, we found a set of 4, 80x100mm 24w silicone heating pads will heat 200-315ah 4s packs well. Wired them series/parallel for 24w of *total* heat (wired all parallel = too much heat). Applied them to the sides of the cells between layers of heavy-duty aluminum HVAC tape. They keep the cells in a 200-315ah 4s pack above 45-50f even with ambient temps as low as 0-5f (inside a Group 24 or 31 battery box with top and no insulation).
 
I build batteries and have been doing so for a while and I feel I better Chime In here.
- It is not that hard to do but it is not a simple slap-it-together deal, unless you want troubles.
There are tools required ! That costs money and a few things that can't be skimped on either such as a good quality Digital Multimeter (at least 2 decimal point accurate) with DC Clamp. Wire cutters, crimpers (Lugs & Terminals) and more... Of course a DC Charging Powersource to top balance etc... This stuff adds up FAST... some of us have the gear because we are into electronics etc but there is always something we don't have.

The Question, if you have the tools & equipment, then DIY is a great option, but if you do not have the tools etc, will that "investment" have more life beyond building the batteries or not ? That can only be answered by YOU !

Cells, Cases, BMS' etc are all easily obtained and there are Known Good Vendors that have been supplying the membership here for quite some time. You can build Larger Capacity batteries than those on offer by most vendors.
! Take 48V Rackmounts, they are mostly 100AH, a few get to 200AH but not beyond that.
A 48V/100AH Pack weighs 47kg (103.6lb) +/- Where a 48V/280AH weighs 135Kg (297lb) +/- a bit. and can't be mounted into a rack for obvious reasons.
Excellent points @Steve_S! Having the right tools and skills are very important when creating a solution that can kill you or burn down your home if not done properly.

Certifications for insurance purposes may also very important. You would also need to pass any local inspections on code compliant Wiring, labeling, and fusing, especially if you are building a 280ah battery that may be staying with a property if selling down the road( those 14K batteries are freaking HEAVY!
You CAN rack mount them though for serviceability with the right tools and rack.
Another point is BMS comms with your inverter. You may want to check your inverter manufacturer for supported batteries for closed loop communications.
When Will first started this forum, LiFePo4 had just arrived on the scene, and everything was the wild west.

The industry has come a long way since then, mainly in my opinion due to feedback from all the smart folks on this forum, and also from a few good Youtube channels dedicated to Solar systems and Batteries.

There are a few good vendors out there now who have created solutions that are great, and provide great support, making the cost benefits of DIY less important.

For 12V mobile applications, the new batteries available now are almost on par with the cost of DIY(I like SOK for 12V).
I started building batteries to learn. I watched all of Will's uploads, and all the other Youtube channels on the subject( Andy at offgridgarage is my favorite, and I use the tools he lists on his website). Its a hobby for me, and while its fun, I learn a LOT from the folks here, and my own testing. If your not the hands on type, then absolutely commercially available batteries are the way to go.

If you like to learn everything about it, have the time and money for tools and build skills, then DIY will be your best bet. The good news is after the tools are bought, its just a matter of sourcing the parts from a trusted vendor from then on, which can save you a LOT of money and frustration down the road.

At a minimum, your asking the right questions on the right forum!
 
I am honestly leaning towards building my own battery, but I don't know how reliable those 3.2V cells are.
Only thing I can telll you on that front is that my cells have been good for little more than 2 years.
Time will tell I guess.
I know some have older DIY batteries on here who might chime in.
 
Great info! I've heard about
We purchased a DC power supply to top-balance our first build. Quickly transitioned to installing Heltec 5a active balancers (with an off/on switch) for subsequent builds. The Heltecs do a fine job of top-balancing. Only takes a few hours with large deltas---smaller deltas, less than an hour. Plus they can be easily switched on to top-balance, as needed, down the road. Rewiring a battery pack, after the fact, to top-balance with a DC power supply is a PITA. The DC power supply has come in very handy for various other electrical projects and testing, but we no longer use it for top-balancing.

Once you start doing DIY builds you'll find the very least of your worries is reliability. Cell failures are extremely rare. BMS's may occasionally fail, but they're very easy to replace. Your biggest concern, by far, is hoping the vendor sells you a well-balanced set of cells. Top-balancing can't fix cells that have inherently different ah capabilities. This is why purchasing from a reputable source is important
Greay info, exactly what I was looking for!

Unfortunately I haven't read a much about Heltec active balancers so I'm unclear how they'd be used to intially balance the cells. Are you suggesting that I connect the cells together, then wire up the BMS and also wire the Heltec cell balancer to each cell. Then also install a on/off switch to the Heltec so I can turn it off and on periodically? I'd love to see a wiring diagram. Is there a good post or posts to read on this topic? I did a search and got SO MANY hits, that I information over load!

You folks have convinced me to go the DIY route, I was worried about getting quality cells. If I put it together and set it up my self, I'll be better able to properly maintain it in the future.
 
Unfortunately I haven't read a much about Heltec active balancers so I'm unclear how they'd be used to intially balance the cells. Are you suggesting that I connect the cells together, then wire up the BMS and also wire the Heltec cell balancer to each cell. Then also install a on/off switch to the Heltec so I can turn it off and on periodically?
Correct. The Heltec 5a 4s balancer's 5 wires (4 positive cell wires plus neg) will simply parallel with the 4s BMS's 5 sensor wires (also 4 positive cell wires plus neg). Each positive cell wire (from BMS and Heltec) is cell specific (3.2v/6.4v/9.6v/12.8v)---they must be connected in the proper order. Not sure about the Heltec, but you can potentially damage a BMS if you connect these wires in the incorrect order. We crimp the BMS and Heltec wires into one wire terminal to cut down on clutter.

After the BMS and Heltec are connected, simply charge normally to 100% SOC (pack 14.4 - 14.6v; cells 3.60 - 3.65v). As soon as you see the delta for the cells drop to approx. 1-3mv, the top-balance is complete. May take 1-2 hours.

The on/off switch is not mandatory; however, a Heltec balancer can undo a top-balance if it's left active with the pack at a lower SOC. Not the end of the world. Just means you'll need to charge to 100% SOC to allow the Heltec to top-balance again.
 
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Great info! I've heard about

Greay info, exactly what I was looking for!

Unfortunately I haven't read a much about Heltec active balancers so I'm unclear how they'd be used to intially balance the cells. Are you suggesting that I connect the cells together, then wire up the BMS and also wire the Heltec cell balancer to each cell. Then also install a on/off switch to the Heltec so I can turn it off and on periodically? I'd love to see a wiring diagram. Is there a good post or posts to read on this topic? I did a search and got SO MANY hits, that I information over load!

You folks have convinced me to go the DIY route, I was worried about getting quality cells. If I put it together and set it up my self, I'll be better able to properly maintain it in the future.
Andy does a video on the Heltec. It's for a 16 cell battery, but I have the same one for a 12 volt battery. I installed mine with an on/off switch.
 
I've been doing DIY solar for the last two years. I just expanded my 24kw system to 52kw and the additional 28kw cost me $3,307 including tax.

The Lifepo4 cells I bought are now cheaper on AliExpress. It took 2 and half months for the batteries and parts to ship from China. I did not buy the cheapest ones. I watched a lot of youtube reviews from people who bought lifepo4 cells and read a lot of reviews and forum posts. In the end I went with a the cheapest supplier I found with creditability. No way could I buy a premade 28kw battery bank for $3,307. This cost includes, the batteries, wiring, JK BMS, fuses, accessories like the 4.3 display for the battery, and tools that made my life easier when building the battery.

I wanted it hidden and out of the way so I built it in a corner in my garage. I wanted to also be able to store things on top of it. but I ended up installing the screen on top so I can check the status without having to check the bms or inverter app. The enclosure is bigger than it needs to be because I wanted a lot of space for maintenance if needed.

I really want to put everything in a power shed but not ready to spend that money yet.
 

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I've been doing DIY solar for the last two years. I just expanded my 24kw system to 52kw and the additional 28kw cost me $3,307 including tax.

The Lifepo4 cells I bought are now cheaper on AliExpress. It took 2 and half months for the batteries and parts to ship from China. I did not buy the cheapest ones. I watched a lot of youtube reviews from people who bought lifepo4 cells and read a lot of reviews and forum posts. In the end I went with a the cheapest supplier I found with creditability. No way could I buy a premade 28kw battery bank for $3,307. This cost includes, the batteries, wiring, JK BMS, fuses, accessories like the 4.3 display for the battery, and tools that made my life easier when building the battery.

I wanted it hidden and out of the way so I built it in a corner in my garage. I wanted to also be able to store things on top of it. but I ended up installing the screen on top so I can check the status without having to check the bms or inverter app. The enclosure is bigger than it needs to be because I wanted a lot of space for maintenance if needed.

I really want to put everything in a power shed but not ready to spend that money yet.
Hello @dareggaemon . Could you please share what parts and where did you buy? I'm interested in buying parts for the new system and would be great to get some parts list and a reliable supplier.
 
Be careful with buying cells from Aliexpress. Many of the listings there are plain scams, and a lot of other sellers are less than honest to say it mildly. Aliexpress is good for many things, but battery cells aren't one of them.
 
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