California PG&E NEM 2.0 deadline - plan submitted or operating?

[zanydroid]

I think CPUC may be asked to step in and clarify their intent post 4/13/2023 and there is an element of risk because CPUC may side with PGE.

Which part are you concerned about?

FWIW A lot of my neighbors are signing installer contracts with the understanding that it can be completed after April.

You should have 3 years to complete the install, though there is extension paperwork that needs to be filed.

 

[agarg]

Which part are you concerned about?

FWIW A lot of my neighbors are signing installer contracts with the understanding that it can be completed after April.

You should have 3 years to complete the install, though there is extension paperwork that needs to be filed.

I too have heard that installers are taking orders and will give NEM 2 in the months following the April deadline.
My mistake was that I was reading 04/15/2023 when it says 4/15/2026.

When the brain stops working what can eye glasses do!!!

Anil

 

[BMEP]

I started going though the online application tonight - haven't gotten too far, but it has some interesting choices, thought I'd share

 

[goldserve]

Are they only letting 10khw backup battery installs?

 

[Ampster]

Are they only letting 10khw backup battery installs?

It is not clear. They use 10kW in the language but just below it say no limit on storage capacity. Perhaps that is the max inverter capacity of a storage system? I do not know what a 10khw battery is? Could that be a typo?

 

[agt]

I believe CRD-PCS refers to the ul1741 utility Power Control System - if your system responds to export/import controls from the utility, storage is unlimited. Otherwise, restricted to 10kwh or below.

This seems generous of PG&E — afaik SDGE requires PCS to ensure absolutely no sell-back of utility power… (even though with CCA it is is not their power!)

Edit: electrons are CCA’s not SDGE’s

 

[Ampster]

(even though with CCA it is their power!)

I am not sure what you mean by "their power"? My view is once it comes through the meter it is my power and I am free to do with it whatever I choose. It is only when I chose to sell back that they have any say in how I will be compensated.

I don't think the presence of a CCA changes the distribution and transmission issues which the utility still has to deal with. Other issues are related to SGIP funding which has strict rules regarding selling of power back. My CCA is exploring a Virtual Power Plant similar to what Tesla is doing and that changes to rules but can help the grid when it is stressed. It is a changing marketplace. I have even heard that the IRS is relaxing the restriction on tax credits for batteries even though they are charged from the grid.

 

[agarg]

I was completing my application on PGE project site for interconnect. It turns out it would not let me submit application unless I certify that "Project meets the Gas Clearance Requirements". See HERE.

I have an older home where PGE installed gas and electric meter in close proximity. When I went to change my main panel, they made many restrictions on the type of panel I could choose under the "grandfather" rule. Their estimate was about $15K to move the meter to another location.

Now it appears that I can not submit solar application unless I either certify falsely or get the moved.

Any one experienced with this?

Anil

 

[Ampster]

Now it appears that I can not submit solar application unless I either certify falsely or get the moved.

I had the same issue and decided to move the main service panel because it was less expensive than moving the gas meter. PG&E required me to send photos of the meter locations so I would not advise falsely certifying or the delay could cause you to not make the NEM 2.0 deadline which long term would be a lot more expensive than moving a main service panel. Remember the service panel upgrade can be added to the cost of solar for the Investment Tax Credit. My service panel move required a new service drop which either cost a small application fee or was free. My justification was also influenced by the fact that I had a dangerous Zinsco panel so I knew I wanted a new service panel anyway.

 

[zanydroid]

Anil - that's an outdated set of guidelines. Unfortunately PG&E has been making these really hard to understand.

This is the September 2022 picture for the rules. You can upgrade the panel in a more relaxed set of space. However, I couldn't find the picture in the latest copy of rules

Latest copy seems to have this nice picture converted to unreadable text (I didn't spend that much time looking for where Figure 2-22 from September edition had, but I think it says something similar

Blanket prohibition

Like for like exemption

 

[zanydroid]

The other option is to modify your SLD so that you don't need an MSP upgrade yet. EG, if you only have a single load side breaker on your main you can easily install solar up to the full capacity of your service.

On my 100A service 100A panel I have a single 100A breaker, and then the subpanel after that I upgraded to 225A without any interference from PG&E, and I tied all the solar there.

 

[zanydroid]

The other option is to modify your SLD so that you don't need an MSP upgrade yet. EG, if you only have a single load side breaker on your main you can easily install solar up to the full capacity of your service.

This is assuming they will let you backfeed solar into a grandfathered MSP that is unmodified except for breaker layout.

They let me do this in a project submitted May 2022 and PTO November 2022

 

[Ampster]

The other option is to modify your SLD so that you don't need an MSP upgrade yet. EG, if you only have a single load side breaker on your main you can easily install solar up to the full capacity of your service.

On my 100A service 100A panel I have a single 100A breaker, and then the subpanel after that I upgraded to 225A without any interference from PG&E, and I tied all the solar there.

Yes that is the most expedient solution. The important point is PG&E does not care what happens after the meter in terns of bus bar rules. That is only an issue for the County. However you need the same SLD for both the County permit and PG&E.

 

[zanydroid]

However you need the same SLD for both the County permit and PG&E.

Yes, that's a key detail. PG&E wants a picture of the finalled permit with stamps & signatures, they collect it with the PTO paperwork you send in after the install is done.

(EDIT: clarified)

 

[agarg]

Thanks a lot for all the feedback. A few clarifications to make. I had my Zinsco panel swapped out with a 125A GE panel with 100 amp mains breaker 6 months ago under PGE rule for like-for-like replacement and they allowed under the grandfathering rule. The 100 amp mains breaker gave me a 50 amp back-feed under a 120% NEC guideline.

However, my problem is that when I am filling up an interconnect application, they are asking me to tick mark a box to certify that "Project meets the Gas Clearance Requirements.

I don't need a panel upgrade. It is all copper bus bar with all gfci-afci and a whole house surge installed. It has been just a few months ago that I spend all that money and efforts.

I also had a permit for the panel swap and it was inspected and approved by the city and the PGE.

@Ampster gave me a idea and that is to certify that it does meet and then make a note somewhere that the certification is based on the fact that it was approved by the city and pge both.

 

[zanydroid]

.

 

[BMEP]

However, my problem is that when I am filling up an interconnect application, they are asking me to tick mark a box to certify that "Project meets the Gas Clearance Requirements.

Hi agarg - where in the application did you see that? I've almost completed mine and don't recall seeing that requirement. You might want to call PG&E because it seems like this could be part of your "install" process, maybe?

 

[BMEP]

A little update for anybody interested: I've been talking to the PG&E person I've been working with on the new service for my property. He's assured me that as long as my new service application states that I intend to install solar, I don't even need to have the net metering agreement application submitted by 4/15. I hope that's right because the way it's going, I won't have service by then. My application was submitted almost a year ago and they continue to change the "energize" date. The "new generation" app (i.e. "net metering" application) requires a PG&E account number and meter number, neither of which I'll have until I actually have service.

One thing I did note that could be a problem for anybody hoping to figure out the specifics of your system after you submit the application is that you can only make a max 10% capacity change without being forced to "re-apply", which essentially means you'd be forced into NEM3 if you did so after 4/15.

 

[zanydroid]

A little update for anybody interested: I've been talking to the PG&E person I've been working with on the new service for my property. He's assured me that as long as my new service application states that I intend to install solar, I don't even need to have the net metering agreement application submitted by 4/15. I hope that's right because the way it's going, I won't have service by then. My application was submitted almost a year ago and they continue to change the "energize" date. The "new generation" app (i.e. "net metering" application) requires a PG&E account number and meter number, neither of which I'll have until I actually have service.

One thing I did note that could be a problem for anybody hoping to figure out the specifics of your system after you submit the application is that you can only make a max 10% capacity change without being forced to "re-apply", which essentially means you'd be forced into NEM3 if you did so after 4/15.

I'm not sure that max 10% capacity increase applies for this situation. I have seen a 30% DECREASE allowed though

This article says:

https://www.reddit.com/r/solar/comments/11bwpfz

Can I add solar to new construction and be grandfathered?
Pacific Gas & Electric (PGE) requires an interconnection application to be submitted within the service application. You will need to find out who at the construction company submitted the service application and get them to link you to that application. If you don't know who submitted the application, you can use a lookup tool found at...

Sounds somewhat consistent with what you said