California: What does "removing" a system mean for PGE?

[philz]

I have a 15-year old thin film system glued to my roof (and an inverter in the garage). My understanding from posts like https://diysolarforum.com/threads/c...-2-customers-and-what-to-do.32344/post-708743 that I'll have to remove my old system before installing a new system. Has anyone figured out what "removal" entails?

 

[400bird]

Are the thin glued down panels permitted and you are currently on a NEM agreement?
I've never seen such a system outside of an RV.

I'd call PGE to ask. My guess is panels and inverter not installed.

 

[philz]

House was built (without me) by developers 15 years ago, and I've seen that permits were pulled 15 years ago, so I do think it was permitted. "United Solar Ovonic PVL-68" is the type of panels... Currently on NEM-1.

Any pointers to how to reach a human to ask at PGE? Various installers seem to think that ungluing the panels will damage the roof, and it seems like a lot of effort! Thanks!

 

[zanydroid]

How many years do you have left on the roof shingles/etc themselves? That affects the min-max here. You don’t necessarily want to put roof mounts on a roof that’s going to need replacement. And if you do you should get an estimate for the labor cost to unmount and remount. If that costs more than the residual remaining value of the roof then either don’t do this project, or accelerate the roof replacement.

Can you abandon the panels instead of ungluing? Can you install roof mounts through the old panels? You might check with racking company’s engineering department to see if this could work mechanically, though then there’s the electrical implications.

NB racking companies keep PEs on staff to stamp plans, they are often contract by the solar installer to help with plans.

 

[400bird]

House was built (without me) by developers 15 years ago, and I've seen that permits were pulled 15 years ago, so I do think it was permitted. "United Solar Ovonic PVL-68" is the type of panels... Currently on NEM-1.

Wow, thanks for the info. Never seen something like that before. If you're on a NEM agreement with PGE, it was permitted and approved.

Any pointers to how to reach a human to ask at PGE?

I called PGE a couple weeks ago, they had a special entry in the phone tree for NEM 1 transition. I'd go down that rabbit hole. I wasn't heading there, but my call was only a couple minutes of hold time (less than 5)

Various installers seem to think that ungluing the panels will damage the roof, and it seems like a lot of effort! Thanks!

I'd agree, is an asphalt shingle roof?

Considering the glue and related damage, I agree with zanydroid, discuss abandoning the panels if you remove the inverter. Also worth thinking about roof life. How old are your current shingles? 15 years may have used up a significant portion of their life.

 

[zanydroid]

If the manufacturer for those glue on panels are still around, you might check their documentation or contact them about abandoning/decomm options.

Is the contractor on the permit still around?

Sometimes your city engineer or building department can help you too. Mine has done some legwork for me, including contact a few contractors they know or talk about related projects they’ve heard of.

 

[zanydroid]

IMO, ripping it off and redoing the toof requires the least leg work and likelihood to need to engage engineers because of deviating from a standard, pre engineered path. Money vs project uncertainty tradeoff.

I assume this complexity is happening because you need to reclaim the roof space for new panels and have no other suitable places to install.

 

[philz]

Thanks. I'll call PG&E next week.

The roof is a standing seam metal roof, so I'm confident that it doesn't need replacement any time soon, and roof space is limited, so new panels will go over the old ones, and, yeah, I think abandoning them won't be any trouble on my end, as long as PG&E is happy with that.

Thanks y'all for your help!

 

[400bird]

Wow, I just looked up the spec sheet on those panels. 68 watts from 10 foot long panels glued down between the seams! That efficiency is terrible. Ah, 53 watts NOTC!

No wonder you're looking to upgrade. One single 2 square meter modern panel prob outperforms an entire roof with those things glued between the seams.

Let us know what PGE says, I'm sure others are looking for similar answers.

 

[zanydroid]

I think racks on standing seam clamp onto the seams poking up, if this does not at all touch the old solar panels I don’t see why anyone would have a problem. I was imagining something like drilling through crap glued onto composition shingles.

I imagine the terminals and connectors on the old array needs to be capped off in a safe way.

That wattage is so low you might even be able to argue that it falls under a relaxed NEC clause like class 2 (<100W, roughly speaking)

 

[Calvin98]

I called PGE a couple weeks ago, they had a special entry in the phone tree for NEM 1 transition. I'd go down that rabbit hole. I wasn't heading there, but my call was only a couple minutes of hold time (less than 5)

I'd be interested in hearing also. Have a neighbor that is still on NEM1 and they are in their 23rd or 24th year of it. No idea if they get to keep it or what.

 

[zanydroid]

I'd be interested in hearing also. Have a neighbor that is still on NEM1 and they are in their 23rd or 24th year of it. No idea if they get to keep it or what.

Doesn't the thread in post 1 address that? Also there's not much time to sort this out, so this is pretty late to be getting that info in place. Since after that they need to bid out, get designed, submit interconnection, in 6 weeks.