Can the electrical grid handle a boom in electric vehicles?

[svetz]

Depending on how I frame the query ...

That gave me the idea to look up EV registrations. So, if the U.S. had 1,454,480 EV registrations in 2021 and the population is 331.900 M, then 0.4%?

So, if Switzerland has 40k EVs registered and a population of 8.698M, then .4% in 2021?
Norway with a population of 5.408M is 2%?

 

[svetz]

That gave me the idea to look up EV registrations. So, if the U.S. had 1,454,480 EV registrations in 2021 and the population is 331.900 M, then 0.4%?

Only 209M citizens in the U.S. are old enough to drive, so 0.7%? Probably higher as some folks don't own cars.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Only 209M citizens in the U.S. are old enough to drive, so 0.7%? Probably higher as some folks don't own cars.

There's a big difference between most countries and the USA in the number of miles the average person travels. Like most things, the meaning of pure data is quite limited without context.

 

[Hedges]

Only 209M citizens in the U.S. are old enough to drive, so 0.7%? Probably higher as some folks don't own cars.

Those of us who do, make up for it. I own 5.
Out of the 289.6 million cars here.

The Number of Cars in the US in 2022/2023: Market Share, Distribution, and Trends - Financesonline.com

In 2020, there were 286.9 million cars in the US. While car sales for the past few years isn’t a simple upward line, other factors such as increasing car age and the need for a personal mobility means amid the pandemic, are making sure that the number of US cars is more or less progressively...

financesonline.com

 

[LeoThomson]

For the US.

"EV registrations rose 60 percent in the first quarter to 158,689 and took a record 4.6 percent share of the light-vehicle total, according to financial data firm Experian. While total vehicle registrations fell 18 percent in the January-March period to 3.4 million on inventory constraints, a growing stable of electric models attracted early adopters in record numbers."

https://www.autonews.com/sales/us-ev-registrations-surge-60-q1-driven-tesla-ford-new-korean-models.

 

[Batvette]

They had the capacity genius, until the fossil fuels became unreliable due to Russia's war. Furthermore, their energy crunch is limited to the winter time when their massive hydroelectric investment falls short. Once the temperatures warm up, they're no longer dependent on the fossil fuels.

It is their investment into carbon free energy sources that is going to save them and limit their hardship to just a few months a year.stsx

Youre saying that Californias energy production is reliant on Russian petroleum, and the war in Ukraine is why California sent messages to not charge EVs.

Comedy.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Youre saying that Californias energy production is reliant on Russian petroleum, and the war in Ukraine is why California sent messages to not charge EVs.

Comedy.

I read your manifesto, please seek mental health services.

 

[Batvette]

I read your manifesto, please seek mental health services.

Ah. Expected. When called out on an outright bullshit lie, he deflects with a personal attack.
Just one of the many lies posted by you and your biden humping sycophants here.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

The long term green plan is using citizen’s power to support the grid.

Wait until you wake up 10 years from now hoping “they” didn’t have an event overnight that required “them” to dip into your car or grid tied system’s battery capacity.

 

[LeoThomson]

Aren’t those areas the highest EV adoption?

It is misreporting...

"A recent draft proposal in Switzerland for how to handle emergencies due to blackouts caused by a shortage of electrical power has raised some attention. In the proposal, if an emergency gets to the 3rd stage, many uses of electricity are discouraged or forbidden. The one that has gotten the most attention is a rule that nonessential driving in electric cars would be curtailed."

Switzerland Wonders If Electric Car Use Should Be Curtailed In Power Emergencies, But It’s Unlikely

A recent draft proposal in Switzerland for how to handle emergencies due to blackouts caused by a shortage of electrical power has raised some attention.

www.forbes.com

"The reality is fortunately not that scary. It’s just a draft, not a regulation yet, and it’s pretty unlikely to happen. If it should, it will be a time when people are being asked to do a lot, even turn down their heat. In addition, wars that shut off oil and gas supplies are just as likely, if not more likely, to cause gasoline shortages with similar curtailments of driving those vehicles."

 

[LeoThomson]

The long term green plan is using citizen’s power to support the grid.

Every grid is built by and for citizens.

Wait until you wake up 10 years from now hoping “they” didn’t have an event overnight that required “them” to dip into your car or grid tied system’s battery capacity.

No one can force individuals to sell to the grid if they do not want to, what is likely to happen is that the homes and businesses can sell to or buy from the grid at the "spot price" +- losses and if we are connected to the grid, we will have a fixed monthly cost to be connected to the grid to pay for maintenance and administration. This will take some investment by the grid operators and could well be opposed by the large producers as it potentially makes their business model unsustainable.

 

[Supervstech]

Every grid is built by and for citizens.


No one can force individuals to sell to the grid if they do not want to, what is likely to happen is that the homes and businesses can sell to or buy from the grid at the "spot price" +- losses and if we are connected to the grid, we will have a fixed monthly cost to be connected to the grid to pay for maintenance and administration. This will take some investment by the grid operators and could well be opposed by the large producers as it potentially makes their business model unsustainable.

I was under the impression utilities are proposing, or requesting ruling that gives the power company control of production positive or negative of customer’s energy storage and production…

 

[LeoThomson]

I was under the impression utilities are proposing, or requesting ruling that gives the power company control of production positive or negative of customer’s energy storage and production…

Maybe on your side of the pond, over here politicians are more likely to do what is in the interest of the public instead of the corporations.

 

[svetz]

I was under the impression utilities are proposing, or requesting ruling that gives the power company control of production positive or negative of customer’s energy storage and production…

Curtailment via frequency shifting is specified in UL 1741-SA, it's been in the U.S. regs for years now. There are plans for frequency shifting to request additional power from DERs, but I don't think it's in the specs yet. They use frequency shifting as it occurs naturally with generators (e.g., if there's excess power they spin faster so the frequency goes up, insufficient power and they slow down).

Maybe on your side of the pond, over here politicians are more likely to do what is in the interest of the public instead of the corporations.

They're not doing it to hurt homeowners, it's to keep the grid stable, you can't have too much or too little. The problem is some energy sources (e.g., nuclear) can't be throttled back quickly. In the U.S. the FERC sets the rules for has to yield first, but as utilities have to pay for fuels they usually voluntarily handle it. I've not see the utility here ever do curtailment.

 

[HowlerMonkey]

They will call it “distributed generation.

The upside to having the grid supported by many points of generation (your home being one point) is that you might not have to add more high voltage transmission capacity.
The downside is that it may introduce having your personal power under someone else’s control.

 

[MurphyGuy]

They will call it “distributed generation.

The upside to having the grid supported by many points of generation (your home being one point) is that you might not have to add more high voltage transmission capacity.
The downside is that it may introduce having your personal power under someone else’s control.

I disagree.
Points to consider:
1. Grid power is already under someone else's control.
2. Personal power is always under your own control if not connected to the grid.
3. If you want to connect to someone else's stuff, then you have to play by their rules. If they want to connect to your stuff, they have to play by your rules. Unfortunately, the former is far more common than the later.

The problem I see, and I'm sure the marketplace will come up with a solution sooner or later, is when your personal power is capable of producing more than it is being allowed to produce by being under someone else's control. For example, a nice cool sunny day is allowing your 10kW solar array to produce a full 10kW, but since everyone else's array is also pushing max power, they curtail everyone's production down to the 6 kW range. So your investment isn't returning all its worth and you are harmed by that.

I foresee grid tied hybrid battery inverters capable of matching grid frequency while separately regulating your own array and using the extra juice its not allowed to pump into the grid to charge batteries or dump the excess energy to do something else.

Maybe another 10 years out. Of course, we already have zero export inverters.

 

[Sanwizard]

I disagree.
Points to consider:
1. Grid power is already under someone else's control.
2. Personal power is always under your own control if not connected to the grid.
3. If you want to connect to someone else's stuff, then you have to play by their rules. If they want to connect to your stuff, they have to play by your rules. Unfortunately, the former is far more common than the later.

The problem I see, and I'm sure the marketplace will come up with a solution sooner or later, is when your personal power is capable of producing more than it is being allowed to produce by being under someone else's control. For example, a nice cool sunny day is allowing your 10kW solar array to produce a full 10kW, but since everyone else's array is also pushing max power, they curtail everyone's production down to the 6 kW range. So your investment isn't returning all its worth and you are harmed by that.

I foresee grid tied hybrid battery inverters capable of matching grid frequency while separately regulating your own array and using the extra juice its not allowed to pump into the grid to charge batteries or dump the excess energy to do something else.

Maybe another 10 years out. Of course, we already have zero export inverters.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Looks promising, but I suspect there's some marketing garbage included. To my understanding, the problem with sodium batteries has been the expansion and contraction of the anode or (cathode?), and then the anode cracks and the battery is dead.

Wondering if they solved that speed bump...

 

[curiouscarbon]

sodium ion batteries give me hope that grid scale storage to buffer intermittent generation sources can be achieved sooner and with relatively less intense demand on ecology.

apparently there are some sodium ion batteries being sold today? (not sure about this). if anyone knows where to source one, please let me know where to look.

for now i continue to use LiFePO4 chemistry for the cycle life and relative resistance to rapid unscheduled disassembly. i found some LTO cells but it is just a small test build, as those type are generally quite expensive