Chargery Shunt Installed on Positive Lead?

[DerpsyDoodler]

Its for reasons like this that I was against using the chargery DCC.

Another thing is, in the manual it says: in order to do common port (with electro mechanical contactors) you still have to have 2. WTF? If i’m doing common port, why on earth would i still want 2 contactors?

firstly, why can’t the charge/discharge leads work together in a common port configuration? and even if that wasn’t easily possible in firmware, then a simple && logic circuit (that can be achieved with a single 12v relay) would suffice.

was there no analysis of the problem? is the business model “slap it together, sell it, then dodge product support?”

What I’m hearing from you, steve, was that all the problems you experienced were your fault. If it was just you, then I could see it. There are too many people who have experienced problems. And if they were your fault, why did it require you working closely with Jason to resolve them?

And rather than blaming his customers, why doesn’t he take a hard step back and re-evaluate his design processes and goals to better align them with a successful business model?

Sorry, but I don’t feel like this product is suitable for the market. Could it be? perhaps. but to get there he is going to have to support it. i am going to use it for now, and try to work through the bugs. First opportunity i get, i will jump on a suitable replacement.

 

[Bob B]

A few things I noted .... Steve's comments about it being REALLY important to make sure the connections are pristine seems to be the most relevant.

If one BMS was working well and the other not .... the difference is in the BMS .... with the possibility that a different shunt was also used.

Since this is not a smart shunt that doesn't use power from the battery, I don't think it will matter whether it's on the positive or negative side as long as the polarity of the leads is correct.

I have no idea why Jason would say the shunt needs to be installed on the positive side .... we didn't hear that entire conversation. Maybe he had resolved problems in the past by having someone do that. In reality, if that happened it probably was a connection problem and re-doing the connections likely resolved itl

I don't think Jason is going to respond to you on this forum .... I don't know why, but he hasn't posted on here for quite some time.

I understand you being upset that it seems Jason gave you advice just to keep you busy troubleshooting ..... I've been in that situation before ........ but, If re-calibrating the shunt seemed to have resolved the problem .... well ... the problem is resolved.

 

[Short_Shot]

After reading this thread I feel like a dumb shunt.

I can't fathom why you'd want to sell one that can only be on positive unless you're specifically catering to the goofy +12vdc chassis/ground crowd and that, not that I'm well traveled in this regard, it's something I've never actually seen in person.

What are the benefits of this?

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

A few things I noted .... Steve's comments about it being REALLY important to make sure the connections are pristine seems to be the most relevant.

If one BMS was working well and the other not .... the difference is in the BMS .... with the possibility that a different shunt was also used.

Since this is not a smart shunt that doesn't use power from the battery, I don't think it will matter whether it's on the positive or negative side as long as the polarity of the leads is correct.

is it possible there was a poor connection at some point that i resolved? sure. i did remove the original lead and replaced it with the other lead to test (at some point). i honestly dont remember if i tried recalibrating it after i did that. when it didnt seem to resolve the issue, i put the original lead back on.

I have no idea why Jason would say the shunt needs to be installed on the positive side .... we didn't hear that entire conversation. Maybe he had resolved problems in the past by having someone do that.

he flat out said (in so many words) the shunt will not work if installed on negative. I can post the email chain if interested.

I don't think Jason is going to respond to you on this forum .... I don't know why, but he hasn't posted on here for quite some time.

i would venture to say because he got tired of supporting poorly designed hardware, perhaps as a result of not fully understanding the demographic that he was targeting.

I understand you being upset that it seems Jason gave you advice just to keep you busy troubleshooting ..... I've been in that situation before ........ but, If re-calibrating the shunt seemed to have resolved the problem .... well ... the problem is resolved.

seems to have resolved it (seems key word). a different shunt was not being used between tries. i will use the term malfunctioning loosely in my next statement. i replaced the “malfunctioning” one with the brand new unopened one, using same shunt, leads, etc. literally drop-in replacement (plug and play leads and before swapping i did wriggle the leads and test for a tight connection). it was fine. put the “malfunctioning“ one back on, it was still mis-reading. i recalibrated it (again, yes again) and it does seem to have resolved it. good news is i have another shunt which lives after both of the chargeries for the purpose of whole system battery monitoring. so, i will have a third party comparison of coulomb counting. my first “go live” will be with only one battery, so i will get a direct comparison of the shunt measurements. The only load the third party shunt won’t see is the BMS (including the relays it powers. i estimate that to be ~2a or less. At any rate, i am awaiting arrival of the 20awg wire to run the power line for the third party shunt (it is a smart shunt).

 

[Bob B]

Steve and I are using the Chargery BMS in a totally different way .... but the BMS is flexible enough to accommodate both of our strategies. I haven't had any problems with my BMS8T beyond what I considered a little annoying .... All those things have been resolved thru software updates that Jason got done by listening to our feedback. I don't use the DCC because I have chosen not to control the power from the battery directly.

I don't think there is any other BMS that gives anywhere near this amount of flexibility in this price range.

It is possible Steve and I have been more successful communicating with Jason because of our approach. Sometimes a rude approach will get a less than optimal response .... Don't know if you have ever tried to work in a support role working with the general public, but it is a VERY tough role to have. What I have seen from Jason is someone who has worked very hard to support and improve a product.
In the early days of my career, I was the tech / service manager of an electronics repair shop .... back when that was actually done. I had an idea to start my own business in a similar vein, but after doing that job for a few years I decided that I would not start a business dealing with the general public.

I do think @Chargery has made a mistake in disappearing from this forum, but also know there are a multitude of possible reasons for that and not all of them are determined by Jason. He is an employee, not the top dog.

 

[Cheap 4-life]

Its for reasons like this that I was against using the chargery DCC.

Another thing is, in the manual it says: in order to do common port (with electro mechanical contactors) you still have to have 2. WTF? If i’m doing common port, why on earth would i still want 2 contactors?

firstly, why can’t the charge/discharge leads work together in a common port configuration? and even if that wasn’t easily possible in firmware, then a simple && logic circuit (that can be achieved with a single 12v relay) would suffice.

I’d assume that you could use just one contactor when using common port if you didn’t want to cutoff charge/discharge separately. Is this right? When LVD or HVD happens then the bms would allow the one contactor to open.

 

[Steve_S]

look wh

Its for reasons like this that I was against using the chargery DCC.

Another thing is, in the manual it says: in order to do common port (with electro mechanical contactors) you still have to have 2. WTF? If i’m doing common port, why on earth would i still want 2 contactors?

firstly, why can’t the charge/discharge leads work together in a common port configuration? and even if that wasn’t easily possible in firmware, then a simple && logic circuit (that can be achieved with a single 12v relay) would suffice.

was there no analysis of the problem? is the business model “slap it together, sell it, then dodge product support?”

What I’m hearing from you, steve, was that all the problems you experienced were your fault. If it was just you, then I could see it. There are too many people who have experienced problems. And if they were your fault, why did it require you working closely with Jason to resolve them?

And rather than blaming his customers, why doesn’t he take a hard step back and re-evaluate his design processes and goals to better align them with a successful business model?

Sorry, but I don’t feel like this product is suitable for the market. Could it be? perhaps. but to get there he is going to have to support it. i am going to use it for now, and try to work through the bugs. First opportunity i get, i will jump on a suitable replacement.

Look who wrote the manual.
The options to use ONE Relay/Contactors IN THERE. Se the Opto-Coupler implementation.
I don't appreciate your tone anymore. Now you are ignored.
You obviously have some agenda and I car not for it.

Between Craig (Former Mod who quit in disgust for being abused) & I, we likely spent well over $1000 on various relays, contactors custom made SSR's and more doing all the hard thrashing. bashing and abusive tests which outted issues to be resolved for all of us which was done.

AS for Jason pulling back... A few "Especially Entitled Slo Moe's" caused it... They went around hos to "the boss" and created havoc and even said shit like they were taking the software and modding it and worse. Try to help folks and that's what you get in 2021.
NO GOOD DEED GOES UNPUNISHED EH !

Also why I stopped following ALL threads and selectively reply IF I feel like it when it's "nice". this nows not, so tootles.

One PO'd person now.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Steve and I are using the Chargery BMS in a totally different way .... but the BMS is flexible enough to accommodate both of our strategies. I haven't had any problems with my BMS8T beyond what I considered a little annoying .... All those things have been resolved thru software updates that Jason got done by listening to our feedback. I don't use the DCC because I have chosen not to control the power from the battery directly.

I don't think there is any other BMS that gives anywhere near this amount of flexibility in this price range.

It is possible Steve and I have been more successful communicating with Jason because of our approach. Sometimes a rude approach will get a less than optimal response .... Don't know if you have ever tried to work in a support role working with the general public, but it is a VERY tough role to have. What I have seen from Jason is someone who has worked very hard to support and improve a product.
In the early days of my career, I was the tech / service manager of an electronics repair shop .... back when that was actually done. I had an idea to start my own business in a similar vein, but after doing that job for a few years I decided that I would not start a business dealing with the general public.

I do think @Chargery has made a mistake in disappearing from this forum, but also know there are a multitude of possible reasons for that and not all of them are determined by Jason. He is an employee, not the top dog.

i’d be happy to share the emails. i will have to redact addresses and last names so it will be a bit of a project.

 

[Bob B]

i’d be happy to share the emails. i will have to redact addresses and last names so it will be a bit of a project.

I consider an email to be private correspondence .... unless both parties agree to it being posted on a forum it should remain that way.

I'm just making some assumptions based on the posts I have seen on this thread .... If I were you, I would ask Jason directly why he told you that when it obviously isn't true.

Bad mouthing him and the product as you are doing isn't going to get a good result.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

i will be attaching pictures, succesively

I consider an email to be private correspondence .... unless both parties agree to it being posted on a forum it should remain that way.

I'm just making some assumptions based on the posts I have seen on this thread .... If I were you, I would ask Jason directly why he told you that when it obviously isn't true.

Bad mouthing him and the product as you are doing isn't going to get a good result.

Fair enough. I appreciate your example on the matter of sharing the emails. sharing them on the forum would be extreme, and embarassing, for him. I don’t feel guilty about sharing them with you via a zoom or something. i trust you to understand and not copy or otherwise record/replicate them. i just want someone to see that while at one point i did get rude, it wasn’t until well after it was justified that I do so. I don’t like being lied to or someone attempting to lead me astray. frankly, i believe it intentional, at this point. And if that is the case then i deserve an answer to the why or at the very least to show the kind of experience others can hope to receive. I am not the first. I’ve seen plenty of the horror stories. i was open-minded and willing to give the benefit of the doubt for a long time. I don’t like having that good faith shat on.

 

[Bob B]

i will be attaching pictures, succesively

Fair enough. I appreciate your example on the matter of sharing the emails. sharing them on the forum would be extreme, and embarassing, for him. I don’t feel guilty about sharing them with you via a zoom or something. i trust you to understand and not copy or otherwise record/replicate them. i just want someone to see that while at one point i did get rude, it wasn’t until well after it was justified that I do so. I don’t like being lied to or someone attempting to lead me astray. frankly, i believe it intentional, at this point.

I'm the same way ... I just think at this point, you need to find closure .... even though I hate that phrase. I'm not interested in seeing your email trail .... I just think you need to figure out how to restore a rapport with Jason and see if he will tell you why he told you that. Was it a fast response in an extremely busy day or what? Sometimes giving the benefit of the doubt is best .... for your own health as well.

Kinda getting past the emotion and working on the practical.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

I'm the same way ... I just think at this point, you need to find closure .... even though I hate that phrase. I'm not interested in seeing your email trail .... I just think you need to figure out how to restore a rapport with Jason and see if he will tell you why he told you that. Was it a fast response in an extremely busy day or what? Sometimes giving the benefit of the doubt is best .... for your own health as well.

Kinda getting past the emotion and working on the practical.

Lol, I don’t need closure, and if anything he needs to restore rapport with me. He needs to make it right. I don’t care if you can cobble them together and make them work for your application. that doesn’t inspire a lot of confidence. Nor does the “support”.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

in the end it should be a very simple device that just works. it carries no current, has to monitor some voltages, pole some sensors, and apply logical analysis to its mined data. are you kiddin me, man?

edit: oops, forgot to mention control some relays.

 

[Bob B]

Based on my communications with Jason, I just don't believe he is a deceitful individual. I think he is a hard working person doing a very tough job to the best of his ability.

.. and now you don't like what I'm saying, so .... I have cobbled something together ..... guess there is no getting through to you and will have to be done trying. Maybe there are anger management issues.

Oh ... and mine does just work the way I expect it to.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

Based on my communications with Jason, I just don't believe he is a deceitful individual. I think he is a hard working person doing a very tough job to the best of his ability.

.. and now you don't like what I'm saying, so .... I have cobbled something together ..... guess there is no getting through to you and will have to be done trying. Maybe there are anger management issues.

Oh ... and mine does just work the way I expect it to.

Hah...don’t try to pin this on me after you refused to view the evidence that proves my story. Pretty suspect. Do you get kickbacks from Jason/Chargery? I mean, it is a fair question.

 

[Bob B]

Hah...don’t try to pin this on me after you refused to view the evidence that proves my story.

OK ... last reply.

I don't want to see the "evidence" because I don't doubt what you are saying is true .... I just think your emotional approach is getting in the way of success.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

OK ... last reply.

I don't want to see the "evidence" because I don't doubt what you are saying is true .... I just think your emotional approach is getting in the way of success.

My emotional approach? i’m angry and i am expressing that anger. For most of us humans, that’s how things work. I’ve been very cordial in my email communication with him until it got to a point of blatant “WTF is he telling me?” Now either you want to look at the evidence or you don’t. you have a back-handed way of telling me you don’t doubt what im saying is true. lol, accusing me of having anger issues over being justifiedly angry. Get a load of yourself, bro.

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

OK ... last reply.

I don't want to see the "evidence" because I don't doubt what you are saying is true .... I just think your emotional approach is getting in the way of success.

And one more quick note, hard-working does not make mistreating someone an OK thing. Anyway, I’m a pretty reasonable guy. Perhaps I’ll hear back from him next week.

 

[JoeHam]

Perhaps I’ll hear back from him next week.

And perhaps we will never hear from him again.

Just sayin’

 

[DerpsyDoodler]

And perhaps we will never hear from him again.

Just sayin’

lol, either way i’m ok with that.