Chargeverter problem

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Check out the chart in this post, it should help explain it. Lower input voltage will result in lower output power.
Post in thread 'DIY 'Chargenectifier'' https://diysolarforum.com/threads/diy-chargenectifier.56329/post-735646

That’s why I think the generator should be outputting at least what it is rated for 120/240. Every other generator I have or have had has done more than 120 per line. My magnum inverter puts out 122v even my cheap Chinese Amazon 1500w puts out 123-124v.

I maybe looking at this wrong. I just had my hopes of faster charging with a 8500w generator. At what this can do I may as well go back to what I was doing for two years.

 

[Hedges]

It's not the generator. The batteries will take the current they want at a given voltage. The chargeverter will limit the current it gives depending on AC input voltage.

Seems like either you're only feeding chargeverter 120V +5%/-10%, or battery doesn't want any more.

Maybe there is voltage drop between Chargverter and battery, check that. Chargeverter is sitting in CV mode, battery received reduced voltage so takes less current. Just like people top-balancing with a 10A supply and skinny leads with alligator clips - heavier wire and ring terminals got supply out of CV mode, back to CC mode.

 

[timselectric]

I do expect more out of the DC side then 55 to 60 amps being powered by a 8500w generator. The way he explained it to me was the lower the ac volts in the more current it will draw. I’m by no means an electrical engineer or even an electrician. But the way he explained it made sense.

Let's see what the math says.

8,500 watt generator. Running at 70% load for fuel efficiency and long life.
8500 x 0.7 = 5,950w

Going through the chargeverter with 90% efficiency. (10% lost in heat)
5,950 x 0.9 = 5,355w

Output charging voltage set at 56v
5,355w ÷ 56v = 95a

If the generator is working properly. You should be able to charge at close to 95a.

On the generator side.
5950w ÷ 227.8v = 26.12a
You should be pulling around 26a from the generator. If charging the battery at 56v and 95a. Give or take a little for losses in the wiring.

I believe that you said that you were using 12 gauge wire from the generator. Which is undersized and a potential Hazzard.

According to your measurements. Something doesn't add up correctly.
I would check the voltage at the connection point, while the charger is running. I'm guessing that there is a substantial voltage drop. Due to the wire size.

The problem could very well be the generator not actually being capable of its ratings.

 

[myles]

If you call champion please update this thread as I'd like to know if I canodify the automatic voltage regulator to adjust. In the manual there is a set screw to adjust voltage but I days to adjust to 115v. I adjusted my governor already to give the 63hz required with no load.

Had I had the knowledge I had now before I purchased I would have bought the 14kw just to charge faster. Less wear and tear vs running the 8.5kw for a long period of time.

 

[Hedges]

If generator wasn't capable, it would choke on the load.

Chargeverter decides how much current it can deliver. Battery decides how much it will take.
Check voltage at battery, also at chargeverter. And check AC voltage feeding chargeverter - 113V or 226V (give or take)?

 

[timselectric]

removed the plug and wire nutted strait to the tinned wires. L1 brown L2 blue yello/green ground.

Verify these connections are actually L1 and L2.

 

[timselectric]

If generator wasn't capable, it would choke on the load.

I was referring to this.

the generator will handle 70 amps but wants to stall @ 80 amps.

 

[timselectric]

Actually the voltage must be over 200v. Because it is charging above 50a.
Which it couldn't do at 120v input.

 

[42OhmsPA]

If you call champion please update this thread as I'd like to know if I canodify the automatic voltage regulator to adjust. In the manual there is a set screw to adjust voltage but I days to adjust to 115v. I adjusted my governor already to give the 63hz required with no load.

Had I had the knowledge I had now before I purchased I would have bought the 14kw just to charge faster. Less wear and tear vs running the 8.5kw for a long period of time.

Might help

AVR Voltage Adjustment

This covers the following Champion Power Equipment models: 196cc-459cc Engine Powered Generators. Read instructions carefully and completely before performing service. SAFETY PRECAUTIONS. To reduce t…

help.championpowerequipment.com

Edit nevermind, sounds like you already tried.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Never mind

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

Ok. The first thing I’m going to do is buy a note book on the way home.

Going to make sure I do have #12 wire and not #10. I may have got those confused but hope I didn’t. That’s bad!

 

[timselectric]

I hope that it's #10.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

I hope that it's #10.

Nope! I did in fact F up its #12. What a bone head move! Maybe this was for the good? Learning lesson not gone bad yet. luckily I never ran the Magnum real hard. Also this generator portion of the wiring has not been installed as permanent or run for very long maybe 10 hours.

So a quick look at the hundreds of pounds of wire I have. I do have some #10 solid and stranded not sure I have enough yet of one or the other. I do have plenty of #8 THHN though it’s all black.

So to make this a more permanent install can I color tape the #8 in a residential building? All of this was removed from a farm demo and was color taped.

 

[Jack Rabbit Off Grid]

From what I have found #4 and larger can be color tabbed.

 

[42OhmsPA]

From what I have found #4 and larger can be color tabbed.

That's what I found as well.
I'm by no means advocated violating codes... If you aren't getting inspected I would use what you had available as long as it was safe and made sense to the next person working in it, obviously don't make a ground hot.
I know somehow the ends of 1 of my 6awg runs got all wrapped up in a fight with a roll of white tape and came out just fine... I also know anyone else that has to work on it will be 1000% certain what line is N...

 

[timselectric]

I wouldn't be too concerned for what it is.
Just make sure that the neutral and ground are identified in an obvious way.

 

[ksmithaz1]

I do expect more out of the DC side then 55 to 60 amps being powered by a 8500w generator. The way he explained it to me was the lower the ac volts in the more current it will draw. I’m by no means an electrical engineer or even an electrician. But the way he explained it made sense.

Current/Power calculations are not rocket science. It's really simple ohms law: P(watts)=E(volts)*I(amps) and dirt simple algebra. We are holding the output constant, I'll use 60A @ 54v:

P=54v * 60a, P = 3240w --> This is the output parameters you set on the Chargeverter.

So we need to supply 3240+ watts to the Chargeverter, If we send it 240v we will require:
3240w = 240v * I, I = 3240 / 240, I = 13.50a
Add in 7% loss:
13.50 * 1.07 = 14.45a

What about if we only send it 220v?
3240w = 220 * I, I = 3240 / 220, I = 14.73a
Add in 7% loss:
14.73 * 1.07 = 15.76a

The components inside the box don't give a crap what the voltage is, as long as it's between the rated 90 and 264v. If you stick an ammeter on the supply side you should see the calculated numbers above give or take an amp or two. Just like everything else electric there are limits based on current (I) because it heats up the wires. Looks to be a ~28A ceiling. Your current does go up as the voltage goes down, but between 240v and 220v barely enough to notice. If you have an 8500W generator, and it's "stalling" (not tripping a breaker, shutting down the motor?) when the output/load gets over 15 or 20a @ 200+ you have a problem with the generator.

You could test it with a bunch of space-heaters.

 

[myles]

FWIW I called Champion, they advised that I should tune the generator so that unloaded it is 62.5-63 hz, and they advised to adjust voltage regulator to output 250V across both legs unloaded.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

I use a Champion 100297 dual-fuel ( https://www.championpowerequipment.com/product/100297-8000-watt-dual-fuel-generator/ ) over 6awg wiring to provide 240v to my Chargeverter 5000.


In a recent test I had the Chargeverter up to 95a @ 52v battery ~4900w charging and ~5500w power from the generator - works smoothly. 5500w / 240v ~ 23a. The Champion 100297 has 30a breakers on each 120v leg so it can't output more than
- 30a @ 240v = 7200w or
- 30a @ 120v = 3600w on a leg
without tripping the breakers.

The Chargerverter is ~90% efficient per my measuring devices (Iotawatt on generator power to the Chargerverter and Batrium on battery charging).

Reading the thread, it was a little unclear to me - was the OP trying to do 120v -> Chargerverter (instead of 240v)? If so, it would account for hi amps and not getting anywhere near 100a charging to the battery.

 

[timselectric]

Reading the thread, it was a little unclear to me - was the OP trying to do 120v -> Chargerverter (instead of 240v)? If so, it would account for hi amps and not getting anywhere near 100a charging to the battery.

That was my first thought. But they wouldn't be able to charge above 50a from 120v.