Chargeverter "problem" - Anyone else?

[Watts Happening]

I would double check the wiring.
I don't remember if you changed the cord end, or made some kind of adapter.
But, check everything.

I made the adapter per their wiring diagram (dirt simple). Again the thing that confuses me is the fact that everything works perfectly with the Victron equipment.

I just went out there and looked, I was wrong, I didn’t make the extension cord, that’s a factory cord from Costco. The only thing I made was the adapter, which again works flawlessly with the multiplus. Confusing.

 

[Hedges]

I’ve run into this with my UPS’s in the house, can’t have any of them on a combination arc fault breaker, immediately trips, and is common from my research.

Probably because AFCI looks for high frequencies from an arc.

AFCI for PV strings has to ignore switching harmonics, while detecting 1000x lower signals from the arc.

This was my thought. But, I’m wondering if there could be something going on internally such as a small relay. That little relay closes and you end up with a tiny arc, maybe interpreted by the gfci as a fault?

AFCI shouldn't trip due to momentary switching. Brush-type motor more likely, but many kitchen and shop appliances have that, so need to distinguish power of arc.

A $1,000 meter to test a $400 charger lol!

I'm guessing the issue is leakage current due to EMI filters, like the Schneider link posted by Webbbn.
The manufacturer EG4 should test their equipment for leakage, fix or at least document the issue, if that is the case.

It is only $756 street price

https://www.tequipment.net/Fluke/368-FC/Clamp-Meters/

Nothing but a sensitive CT, no reason for that price except for the name.
We use them at work for R&D, but our product has way more zeros in the price.

If leakage is enough to trip GFCI, that is 5 mA or more, would show up on DMM if you fed ground wire through the mA scale (defeating ground protection, to be done in a controlled environment.)

My clamp AC/DC ammeter has 10 mA resolution, so wouldn't do it. Unless I coiled ground wire 10x or 100x around the clamp; that might be the way to go.

 

[Watts Happening]

Probably because AFCI looks for high frequencies from an arc.

AFCI for PV strings has to ignore switching harmonics, while detecting 1000x lower signals from the arc.



AFCI shouldn't trip due to momentary switching. Brush-type motor more likely, but many kitchen and shop appliances have that, so need to distinguish power of arc.



I'm guessing the issue is leakage current due to EMI filters, like the Schneider link posted by Webbbn.
The manufacturer EG4 should test their equipment for leakage, fix or at least document the issue, if that is the case.

It is only $756 street price

https://www.tequipment.net/Fluke/368-FC/Clamp-Meters/

Nothing but a sensitive CT, no reason for that price except for the name.
We use them at work for R&D, but our product has way more zeros in the price.

If leakage is enough to trip GFCI, that is 5 mA or more, would show up on DMM if you fed ground wire through the mA scale (defeating ground protection, to be done in a controlled environment.)

My clamp AC/DC ammeter has 10 mA resolution, so wouldn't do it. Unless I coiled ground wire 10x or 100x around the clamp; that might be the way to go.

Great, now I’ve gotta do science!

I’ll check with a couple other sources to see if I can replicate the issue. For all I know I’ve got an “ultra sensitive generator”, but this did happen on any of its 120v plugs, both have the GFCI reset button.

 

[timselectric]

I made the adapter per their wiring diagram (dirt simple). Again the thing that confuses me is the fact that everything works perfectly with the Victron equipment.

I just went out there and looked, I was wrong, I didn’t make the extension cord, that’s a factory cord from Costco. The only thing I made was the adapter, which again works flawlessly with the multiplus. Confusing.

I would measure resistance/continuity. On the pins of the cord end. That should point you in the right direction for troubleshooting.

 

[Watts Happening]

I would measure resistance/continuity. On the pins of the cord end. That should point you in the right direction for troubleshooting.

I’ll certainly do that, but I can’t help but think: if I had continuity where it shouldn’t be, wouldn’t my victron have shut off plenty of times? It runs most of the day, every day through this same cord/adapter setup. It’s literally running as I type this, drawing ~600 watts continually from my tool trailer into the house batteries. It switches on and off based on battery SOC and has never skipped a beat.

 

[Hedges]

I think 240V L1/L2 into Chargeverter is likely to fix it. The leakage currents to ground will balance each other.

Does your DMM measure capacitance? Read from L to G of Chargeverter plug. Then do math for 60 Hz and calculate current.

 

[timselectric]

I’ll certainly do that, but I can’t help but think: if I had continuity where it shouldn’t be, wouldn’t my victron have shut off plenty of times? It runs most of the day, every day through this same cord/adapter setup. It’s literally running as I type this, drawing ~600 watts continually from my tool trailer into the house batteries. It switches on and off based on battery SOC and has never skipped a beat.

This is to determine where the problem is.
(Cord, adapter, Chargeverter, generator)

 

[Quattrohead]

You need to change the thread title, you don't have a chargeverter problem, you have a generator/gfci problem

 

[Watts Happening]

You need to change the thread title, you don't have a chargeverter problem, you have a generator/gfci problem

We’re all entitled to our opinions. I’m glad you’ve determined the root of the cause with zero testing.

My title is just so unfair, my deepest apologies.

 

[G00SE]

Why would an inverter generator cause it to fault?
All I own is inverter generators so now I’m perplexed

 

[Hedges]

If voltage waveform from inverter has higher frequency content, same EMI filter capacitor from Line to Ground would cause higher leakage current.

(Just a theory)
The scientific test would be to use resistor to create leakage current, capacitor to cause leakage current, and see how many ohms and how many uF to trip the same GFCI, fed by either inverter or conventional generator.

 

[Watts Happening]

Why would an inverter generator cause it to fault?
All I own is inverter generators so now I’m perplexed

I personally have no idea, I'm actually hoping it's the generator. When I say generator, I mean the GFCI built into the plug. I don't have any reason to believe the Chargeverter is the cause, it's just a "problem" I'm dealing with and the only thing plugged into the generator is the Chargeverter, hence the "problem" in the title.

The Chargeverter is awesome, I actually figured someone would immediately respond and be like, "listen here dummy, of course it won't work with a GFCI" or something along those lines. I would then learn, and the topic would forever be there for similar stupid folks to learn from lol.

 

[Crowz]

I personally have no idea, I'm actually hoping it's the generator. When I say generator, I mean the GFCI built into the plug. I don't have any reason to believe the Chargeverter is the cause, it's just a "problem" I'm dealing with and the only thing plugged into the generator is the Chargeverter, hence the "problem" in the title.

The Chargeverter is awesome, I actually figured someone would immediately respond and be like, "listen here dummy, of course it won't work with a GFCI" or something along those lines. I would then learn, and the topic would forever be there for similar stupid folks to learn from lol.

I have a gfci socket on the outside wall by my kitchen door which has a poor connection (need to fix it one day just haven't yet).

Turning on my mower charger (the electric 48v cub cadet riding more so big amps at first) trips it sometimes. So a bad outlet on the generator or poor connection on the outlet itself in the generator can cause what your seeing.

 

[Bkord]

It may just be the gfci built into the gen. I have had faulty gfcis that were only a week old.

 

[HalfBaked]

Try an inline GFCI adapter plugged into the same generator, see if it trips?

 

[Quattrohead]

By the way you all have GFCI sockets not plugs, to be very very pedantic LOL

 

[Zapper77]

Well you could just pull the ground wire from the plug.

Switch to a non-gfci. Does your small generator have a 30amp 120?

 

[ksmithaz1]

Tim is correct, GFCI should not be more sensitive, but my experience has been somewhat different from my expectation. I do know a "regular" homlife style breaker, can actually take 2X it's rated capacity for an unexpectedly long time. I think GFCI breakers just have a more instantaneous trip curve. I had the GE and SQD trip charts somewhere for the standard breakers. Might be interesting to compare.