Charging with suitcase generator?

[seneysolar]

Anyone charging their battery bank with a small suitcase generator? (Under 2500w). I see lots of folks on here using big generators but thats alot of fuel...

I have a plug wired on my Aims 4k inv/charger and i use my yamaha 2000 for charging. I have 4 trojan L-16's in series for 24v. I realize that if i ask for a large load (well pump) from the inverter that it will disconnect the generator for a minute but it just reconnects when the pump is done. The aims inverter has the little charge rate dial you can turn to match generator capability. I just go by sound. About 35 amps is the sweet spot.

After a few days at the cabin in winter time i usually fire up the gen and leave it for the day while out snowmobiling. When we get back the batteries are full, the generator is out of gas, i only used 1 gallon of gas and im ready for another couple days.

I set up a buddies cabin in a similar way using an Iota charger. Although those are not adjustable so you gotta do the math when buying one first.

Not sure how many hours to expect outta the little generators. Any full time off grid folks doing this? Guess on how may hours these generators are good for?

 

[yodamota]

I suspect a lot of people in my community are running hondas and yamahas. We have a 2000 honda. It works well, it will start the dewalt 13" planer but will not start the ridgid table saw without running the power thru the inverter. Won't start the jointer either. I wish we had a 3000 honda.

My suggestion is to change the oil often, anytime it gets dicoloured. I believe i read it needs to be changed every 50 hours? Only like 450ml or something.

1 gallon of gas seems like a lot to me. I am reluctant to run the generator to get the absorption charge finished. However its not always possible to get an absorption charge otherwise. Defintly no float charging. My neighbor suggest running the generator in the morning up to absorb voltage than shut it off so that the panels can take care absorption cycle.

One suggestion for you would be to not have a freezer/fridge plugged in while charging the batteries. at least our honda yells fuck off when the freezer starts up while the generator is charging the batteries. I unplug the freezer while charging, than plug in afterwards.

 

[ElectricIslander]

Our Honda 2200Eui is approaching 6000 hrs (hour meter gave out at almost 5700 hrs. Changed oil every 100 hrs (thats what I added the hr meter for), used synthetic Mobil 1. We are also on the edge of the Salish sea on a rocky island so not much dust. If area was dusty, I'd change every 50 hrs.

 

[seneysolar]

Wow I was thinking 2000 hours might be the limit. Thats awesome!
I have been using my powersports oil that i run in dirtbikes and atvs, maxima 10w30.

Im happy with the 1 gallon of gas consumed. The idea i guess is "hours per gallon" and not "gallons per hour" like some of these larger generators.

Obviously it has its limits with amperage but i dont think anyone can complain about 8 hours of charge for 3 bucks worth of fuel.

I like the idea of running it in the morning and letting the panels do the absorb. For that matter one could let it run all night when inverter loads are minimal.

 

[yodamota]

Obviously it has its limits with amperage but i dont think anyone can complain about 8 hours of charge for 3 bucks worth of fuel.

I like the idea of running it in the morning and letting the panels do the absorb. For that matter one could let it run all night when inverter loads are minimal.

are you saying that your gas is 0.75USD(1$ CAD) a liter???? I know this is canada, On the big island gas is something like 1.45CAD, whereas where I live its 2.49 per liter or around 10 CAD bucks a gallon.... even in U S dollars thats 7.3USD per gallon.

The gas here however needs to be barged from the mainland and there are many changes of hands....


On topic, Ran the suitcase yesterday. We did a load of laundry which required an extra load. Than noticed we hadn't run the batteries thru a whole absoprtion cycle in 11 days(yes 11 or so days without the sun coming out!) so ran the generator. While I did not time how long it ran, the generator is almost empty, it probably has an hour of run time left.

Initially I had the "charge rate" of the generator set to 50% which meant it pulled 50 amps at 30VDC or around 1500w. With the laundry machine this was too much. it for some reason wouldn't reduce the rate. When I set the "charge rate" to 40% it pulled something like 35 amps at 30VDC which it seemed happy to put out... 50% it would overload.


I recall a recent seminar I attended, where the presenter suggested that gas generators are only something like 20% efficient, the other percentage went to heat....

Definitely a good reason to get another set of panels.

 

[seneysolar]

Gas is $3/gallon here in Michigan. I am happy run the suitcase through full tank to recover batteries in the winter. We get some overcast days/weeks where no amount of panels are going to charge.

I just see alot of people considering 8-9kwatt generators and the fuel consumption on those is crazy to use as a "battery charger". I understand being able to power the loads while charging, but if you dont let it get that low and you can time the generator run time for low inverter usage, you can really be efficient.

Some friends have a kohler propane 12k standby thats on an AGS. He figures it burns about 1 gallon of propane per hour when running. No thanks!

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

i use a 1600 watt denyo which is made by yamaha and re-badged. The few times i have needed it I set the magnum inverters charge rate to 50% (have to do this due to 240 vs 120 input) and then set the maximum input amps to 10 amps max which leaves 6 -7 amps for stuff like freezer or fridge coming on. i do this for one tank of fuel which is about 3 hours for my unit and it gets me high enough up I am good for a day or two until the sun comes out. never had to do it more than 2 days in a row, and that was last year during a very bad snowstorm. once I got the panels cleared with a broom they were good to go and got the banks charged quickly. with my bank I can usually last about 3 days (zero input) depending upon a lot of variables biggest being to ensure the house is only heated with the wood stove and not the forced air kerosene heaters.

in the rainy season i can usually get about 5 days with low production but have as et not had to use the genset during the rainy season.

 

[Checkthisout]

The Honda EU2200i can put out about 16 AMPS continuous.

So your 24 Volt charger should be able to hit 60 AMPS.

With AGM they are only going to take that for a short period of time though.

Lithium allows for more efficient charging because the batteries can suck up so much more energy before absorption voltage is hit.

In changing over to lithium, Ive concluded that I no longer need an inverter type generator to keep from wasting fuel. Ill still use it until its dead of course but I can save some money when mine goes bad by simply purchasing a standard generator.

 

[yodamota]

The Honda EU2200i can put out about 16 AMPS continuous.

So your 24 Volt charger should be able to hit 60 AMPS.

With AGM they are only going to take that for a short period of time though.

Lithium allows for more efficient charging because the batteries can suck up so much more energy before absorption voltage is hit.

In changing over to lithium, Ive concluded that I no longer need an inverter type generator to keep from wasting fuel. Ill still use it until its dead of course but I can save some money when mine goes bad by simply purchasing a standard generator.

I was looking at "standard generators" and they were way cheaper.

IS this what you are refering to as standard generators? https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eg4000

 

[Checkthisout]

I was looking at "standard generators" and they were way cheaper.

IS this what you are refering to as standard generators? https://powerequipment.honda.com/generators/models/eg4000

Yes non-inverter, open frame.

Saves money. With lithium you don't need the drawn-out absorption phase so generator loading can be essentially flat almost the entire charge.

Albeit, I still do electric start and make it automatic.

 

[RCinFLA]

If you load generators at least 40% to 80% of its rated VA you will get maximum fuel efficiency. In general, if within optimum loading range, the larger the generator the better the kWh's per gallon of gas used.

My Yamaha 3000is 2.8kVA generator, in variable rpm ECO mode, gets 4.2 kWh/gal at 25% load and 6.2 kWh/gal at 80% loading.
My Generac 15kVA generator, at constant 3600 rpm, gets 4.5 kWh/gal at 25% load and 7.0 kWh/gal at 80% loading.

Above about 80% loading there is greater alternator electrical losses hurting efficiency and it is stressful on generator.

Some hybrid inverters do not release AC input cleanly as a generator becomes erratic as it starts to run out of gas. This can cause generator or inverter damage so best if you not allow generator to just run out of fuel while connected to hybrid inverter.

Open AC breaker, shut down generator, then refuel. It may take up to a minute for inverter to realize AC input has been opened so beware there may be inverter sourced live AC voltage on inverter AC input until inverter realizes AC input is open circuit and it releases its pass-through relay.

 

[seneysolar]

If i turn up the charge rate above 35A @ 24v, the yamaha 2000 can handle more but it just runs out of gas faster. The lead acids seem to like the extended charge/absorb time. So if im going to burn a gallon of gas, id rather get 8 hours of charge instead of say 5. This extended run time per gallon probably only benefits lead acid guys.

There are alot of cheaper standard generators but the noise is the only downside. You may have some connectivity issues as well if the voltage and freq is a little off. Some are good, some are really far off. I have a brand new champion that was 156v out of the box until it was loaded up. Under loads it was good enough, but inverter would not connect to it until i plugged in a space heater to calm it down.

I see firman has factory "refurbished" suitcase gens on ebay for $250. Probably worth a try, firman is carried and serviced at my local true value hardware store (parts and warranty)

 

[Checkthisout]

I'm a Honda/Yamaha fan boy for sure.

I don't trust anything else. I would look for used Honda or Yammy stuff before buying the cheaper mew stuff.

I have a Yamaha 3000 ISEB for my stuff but I maintain a small fleet of (60 generators) of Honda stuff.

The Honda EU2000/2200I is a great unit. Honda runs larger displacement engines for the given output than Yamaha and thus actually has a bit lower operating RPM and thus noise signature than the Yamahas.

The EU2200i, don't be afraid to load it up good.

 

[Q-Dog]

We had an EU2200 before I built our battery backup, and I have set up the MultiPlus to be able to charge from this little generator if needed. But of course since we built it we have only had short outages that didn't need to use the generator.

Now that we have more batteries and more solar panels waiting for installation we may never need the generator again.

 

[thepartyhound]

I have sworn by Predator generators for years now. In fact there is one running outside my slide in camper right now charging a couple hundred Ah of LFP as I write this. I am sad to say that this little 10ish y/o 2k generator is finally giving up. She is struggling to put out 100v AC and is only giving me 5 amps while doing it. Its a shame too cause that little bugger fired right up on the second pull even after sitting outside under several inches of snow all last night whereas this new Honda EU 2200I that I "upgraded" to is sitting in here next to the fire warming up before trying again. It would not start under the same conditions that China's finest had no problem firing up in. Granted, once it is running, it will give me a full 12A at an actual 120v as long as I ask for it.

 

[Checkthisout]

I have sworn by Predator generators for years now. In fact there is one running outside my slide in camper right now charging a couple hundred Ah of LFP as I write this. I am sad to say that this little 10ish y/o 2k generator is finally giving up. She is struggling to put out 100v AC and is only giving me 5 amps while doing it. Its a shame too cause that little bugger fired right up on the second pull even after sitting outside under several inches of snow all last night whereas this new Honda EU 2200I that I "upgraded" to is sitting in here next to the fire warming up before trying again. It would not start under the same conditions that China's finest had no problem firing up in. Granted, once it is running, it will give me a full 12A at an actual 120v as long as I ask for it.

Make sure you're setting the choke and have economy "off".

 

[hugemoth]

I have sworn by Predator generators for years now. In fact there is one running outside my slide in camper right now charging a couple hundred Ah of LFP as I write this. I am sad to say that this little 10ish y/o 2k generator is finally giving up. She is struggling to put out 100v AC and is only giving me 5 amps while doing it. Its a shame too cause that little bugger fired right up on the second pull even after sitting outside under several inches of snow all last night whereas this new Honda EU 2200I that I "upgraded" to is sitting in here next to the fire warming up before trying again. It would not start under the same conditions that China's finest had no problem firing up in. Granted, once it is running, it will give me a full 12A at an actual 120v as long as I ask for it.

When small Honda generators won't start in cold weather it's often because the low oil cutoff switch isn't satisfied. Thinner oil usually does the trick. I generally use 5w30 synthetic in the winter.

Have you cleaned the spark arrestor screen in the Predator generator? I can look ok from the outside when the screen on the inside is clogged. The Chinese generators normally hold up quite well. My little Chinese Wen 1200 generator has 2700 trouble free hours so far.

 

[Checkthisout]

When small Honda generators won't start in cold weather it's often because the low oil cutoff switch isn't satisfied. Thinner oil usually does the trick. I generally use 5w30 synthetic in the winter.

Have you cleaned the spark arrestor screen in the Predator generator? I can look ok from the outside when the screen on the inside is clogged. The Chinese generators normally hold up quite well. My little Chinese Wen 1200 generator has 2700 trouble free hours so far.

Honda 2200 generators will still start even if oil is low but will shut off after about 5 seconds.

2700 hours is a lot on the Wen

The main issue back in the day with that stuff was capacitor failure (bulging)

 

[thepartyhound]

When small Honda generators won't start in cold weather it's often because the low oil cutoff switch isn't satisfied. Thinner oil usually does the trick. I generally use 5w30 synthetic in the winter.

Have you cleaned the spark arrestor screen in the Predator generator? I can look ok from the outside when the screen on the inside is clogged. The Chinese generators normally hold up quite well. My little Chinese Wen 1200 generator has 2700 trouble free hours so far.

No, I haven't cleaned the spark arrestor. I looked at it, it seemed ok, but maybe I should take it apart. I have had and used this generator for who knows how many hours over the last 8ish years! It has been a good machine. I have definately got my money out of it and then some...it was back when you could get them for 349 on sale. Maybe it still has some years left to give and that spark arrestor is the whole problem...

The Honda is now up and running. The last tank it got ran dry and I'm thinking that it had some moisture in the fuel that got sucked in. I had to drain a couple tablespoons of fuel out of the bowl, get fresh fuel into the bowl, and it fired right up.

 

[jimf909]

Honda 2200 generators will still start even if oil is low but will shut off after about 5 seconds.

This was my experience with an aging Champion open frame generator: the generator started and then quit after about five seconds. I KNEW it couldn't be low on oil so I wondered about other causes. Then I stubbornly checked the oil and saw it was low. Added a some oil and it was fixed. Doh!

I don't know how it bypasses the low oil switch for starting. I would think that that switch opens (closes?) the circuit and wouldn't allow it to even start.