Coming Energy Prices …..

[Goboatingnow]

As far as I am aware, no country is invited to join, the country has to apply. But that is irrelevant in the case of Russia, right now there is no chance at all for Russia to join the EU. The EU is even looking to implement visa requirements for Russians (and I am sure Russia will retaliate) Russia is going to have to look for new markets for their fossil energy products.

I hope that the frozen assets of Russia and Putin supporters are going to be seized and given to Ukraine for rebuilding their country after Ukraine removes the invaders or Putin calls them back. I don't know if that is legally possible, but I am pissed.

Accession fundamentally require an invite

 

[Goboatingnow]

I’m guessing you were one of the ones laughing when Trump predicted in 2018 exactly what would occur - some people are hopeless, only existing because throughout their lives there’s always been someone around both willing and able to make sure they are taken care of, more often than not those hopeless people have no clue someone has made their continued existence possible

It’s a mark of a decent society that people who are “ hopeless “ get looked after in all sorts of ways. Societies should never operate on” dog eat dog “ or survival of the fittest “. That’s barbaric.

It’s a mark of a good society that not often are people free to make mistakes , but when they do , society picks them up dusts then down and sends them on their way again. We need to live in a kind and caring society.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

It’s a mark of a good society that not often are people free to make mistakes , but when they do , society picks them up dusts then down and sends them on their way again. We need to live in a kind and caring society.

Big Difference between picking someone up and dusting them off and taking care of them from cradle to grave and the Major sticking point between groups..

 

[Goboatingnow]

Big Difference between picking someone up and dusting them off and taking care of them from cradle to grave is a big difference and the Major sticking point between groups..

Well it’s a degree thing surely , I tend to see the advantages of societies that do that cradle grave support. I beleive , housing , heating ( if needed ) , medical, education are fundamental rights and if yiu haven’t the means societies takes from the better off and gives you those means. .

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Well it’s a degree thing surely , I tend to see the advantages of societies that do that cradle grave support. I beleive , housing , heating ( if needed ) , medical, education are fundamental rights and if yiu haven’t the means societies takes from the better off and gives you those means. .

So I bust my ass so other people can lay around. Nope.

 

[SparkyJJO]

Old Quote from many years back, "he who does not work shall not eat."

I'm sorry but ifbsomeone is too frickin' lazy to work then no he has no "right" to house and food and all that. Work for it. I get it people fall on hard times and need help and that's fine, or some get disabled and can no longer work, I get it, but an otherwise capable person being a bum and expecting you and me to pay for his stuff? No.

 

[Danke]

Big Difference between picking someone up and dusting them off and taking care of them from cradle to grave and the Major sticking point between groups..

Is there a reason I’m quoted with this response?

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Is there a reason I’m quoted with this response?

No idea why your response got in there.

 

[JRH]

Old Quote from many years back, "he who does not work shall not eat."

I'm sorry but ifbsomeone is too frickin' lazy to work then no he has no "right" to house and food and all that. Work for it. I get it people fall on hard times and need help and that's fine, or some get disabled and can no longer work, I get it, but an otherwise capable person being a bum and expecting you and me to pay for his stuff? No.

The word that’s being danced around here like the plague is very simple …it’s called SOCIALISM…for the underschooled , that means I have to work to get my stuff but you don’t… you just get to have part of my stuff….and not work ….
naw, I will pass on that..
Not gona happen…
…

 

[Nobodybusiness]

The word that’s being danced around here like the plague is very simple …it’s called SOCIALISM…for the underschooled , that means I have to work to get my stuff but you don’t… you just get to have part of my stuff….and not work ….
naw, I will pass on that..
Not gona happen…
…

Nah now you will get them arguing about the definition of socialism.

military is socialism, Firefighting is socialism, Social Security is socialism. Ect, Ect, Ect..

It’s pretty simple for me.
If I earned it and you take it from me to give to someone who didn’t it’s theft. Call it whatever you like.

I wasn’t put here to take care of the world just me and my family.

That’s not to say I don’t help people either.
I help those who help themselves not mooch off the system.

 

[JRH]

Nah now you will get them arguing about the definition of socialism.

military is socialism, Firefighting is socialism, Social Security is socialism. Ect, Ect, Ect..

It’s pretty simple for me.
If I earned it and you take it from me to give to someone who didn’t it’s theft. Call it whatever you like.

I wasn’t put here to take care of the world just me and my family.

That’s not to say I don’t help people either.
I help those who help themselves not mooch off the system.

Ha ha ha… you are correct… that’s great…
I will help anyone who tries but needs help. I will help the old , the weak , the infirm , the victims of accidents that happen to people…all critters wild and tame are especially worthy of my unconditional help.
I have been down low as a snakes belly and high as a mountain top so I have seen it from both sides.
but will not lift my hand to help anyone who thinks they are entitled to anything…the world owes no one anything…
life isn’t fair… nature isn’t kind….
do your part and I’m on your side… be a slacker and I offer no quarter…
you made your bed so lay in it.
.

 

[BillSF]

The problem is that the 1% are using anti-socialism to maintain the status quo. Pushing for a living wage is somehow classified as "socialism". I've been working for 25+ years. Every company I've worked at has gone through multiple CEOs while I've been there. A good customer service person is more valuable to a company that most CEOs, but customer service is a "low skill" job and executives are usually overpaid massively. Good engineers, designers, technicians, warehouse staff, and even managers (good ones) are more important to a company than the CEO.

When I imagine a more "socialist" world, I'm imagining a world where employees are treated with respect and paid closer to the value they provide (I.e. most employees paid more, most executives paid less; earned money taxed less; capital gains money taxed more). Somehow the opposite of this is the narrative of the anti-socialists.

Also, while I think everyone in America should be able to eat, that doesn't mean that they should be eating as well as someone earning their keep. Also, basic food is very cheap so this is not an expensive "ask" (considering that the major food corporations will just throw out perfectly fine food to maintain their price margins).

I think we need to stop using terms like Socialism. The fear of the USSR that Gen X lived their whole youths under makes "Socialism" too emotionally loaded. Let's be logical, not emotional, and choose a path forward that is more equitable to employees, not investors/executives and that doesn't massively waste resources, nor harm the environment.... Sounds more like the Golden Rule to me.

 

[JRH]

The problem is that the 1% are using anti-socialism to maintain the status quo. Pushing for a living wage is somehow classified as "socialism". I've been working for 25+ years. Every company I've worked at has gone through multiple CEOs while I've been there. A good customer service person is more valuable to a company that most CEOs, but customer service is a "low skill" job and executives are usually overpaid massively. Good engineers, designers, technicians, warehouse staff, and even managers (good ones) are more important to a company than the CEO.

When I imagine a more "socialist" world, I'm imagining a world where employees are treated with respect and paid closer to the value they provide (I.e. most employees paid more, most executives paid less; earned money taxed less; capital gains money taxed more). Somehow the opposite of this is the narrative of the anti-socialists.

Also, while I think everyone in America should be able to eat, that doesn't mean that they should be eating as well as someone earning their keep. Also, basic food is very cheap so this is not an expensive "ask" (considering that the major food corporations will just throw out perfectly fine food to maintain their price margins).

I think we need to stop using terms like Socialism. The fear of the USSR that Gen X lived their whole youths under makes "Socialism" too emotionally loaded. Let's be logical, not emotional, and choose a path forward that is more equitable to employees, not investors/executives and that doesn't massively waste resources, nor harm the environment.... Sounds more like the Golden Rule to me.

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

 

[BillSF]

In regards to Russia... I'm suspicious of their motives. Yes, it is possible they thought they could quickly seize Ukraine and gain control of an even larger supply of the world's food supply and more sea ports.

However, it is also possible that this war was never intended to be won. It could be intended to disrupt the food supply and as a result destabilize the world. Or maybe some other goal?

China has been accumulating grain reserves and China is Russia's strongest ally.

The above sounds like a conspiracy theory which I'm not really comfortable with. On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that Putin bungled / misjudged the world's response so badly which makes me think there is another level of complexity that is not as obvious.

In any case, I planted potatoes for the first time this year. Not a high value crop for saving me money, but I want to learn more about it and get better at improving yields, because when you're hungry, potatoes are a complete protein (with the skin) and thus priceless. The plants are dying back so my first potato harvest should be ready in about 2 to 4 weeks.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

The problem is that the 1% are using anti-socialism to maintain the status quo. Pushing for a living wage is somehow classified as "socialism". I've been working for 25+ years. Every company I've worked at has gone through multiple CEOs while I've been there. A good customer service person is more valuable to a company that most CEOs, but customer service is a "low skill" job and executives are usually overpaid massively. Good engineers, designers, technicians, warehouse staff, and even managers (good ones) are more important to a company than the CEO.

When I imagine a more "socialist" world, I'm imagining a world where employees are treated with respect and paid closer to the value they provide (I.e. most employees paid more, most executives paid less; earned money taxed less; capital gains money taxed more). Somehow the opposite of this is the narrative of the anti-socialists.

Also, while I think everyone in America should be able to eat, that doesn't mean that they should be eating as well as someone earning their keep. Also, basic food is very cheap so this is not an expensive "ask" (considering that the major food corporations will just throw out perfectly fine food to maintain their price margins).

I think we need to stop using terms like Socialism. The fear of the USSR that Gen X lived their whole youths under makes "Socialism" too emotionally loaded. Let's be logical, not emotional, and choose a path forward that is more equitable to employees, not investors/executives and that doesn't massively waste resources, nor harm the environment.... Sounds more like the Golden Rule to me.

Call it whatever you like.

If you feel the world owes you anything without participation then we are definitely not going to see eye to eye.

Human nature will never allow for an altruistic government or country.

Someone always wants more than the next guy for the same effort.
Someone always wants to do nothing and get everything.

Life isn’t fair or Equitable.

The politicians and CEOs are ALL from the same families. Same schools, social circles.

The CEOS get their friends the politicians to pass laws to get them more money and control in return for kickbacks.

It’s a big club and we ain’t in it.

Limit Government to it’s original mandate And most issue will take care of themselves.

 

[BillSF]

A rose by any other name is still a rose.

This is basically the opposite of what I said.

I'm not going to say I want a tomato and let someone call it a rose (nor a turnip). A living wage for all hard work done well is not socialism. That's just fairness.

If someone tells you that it is socialism, he probably has you bent over a barrel, while eating your lunch and dinner, and digging your grave (i.e. defining the entire boundaries of the life he is *permitting* you to have). And by "you", I don't necessarily mean YOU. Most people on this forum probably work harder than average and/or have more education and disposable income than average.

I mean the people working on their feet 8 hours a day at Walmart or McDonald's. Or 12 hours a day at an Amazon warehouse pissing in a cup so Bezos can buy a pair of yachts. These jobs and the people doing them are disrespected, both in terms of their pay, and by society and I'm not ok with that.

I grew up dirt poor, worked during high school, college, and summer vacations to afford college and now I'm near the 1%, but not quite. That was possible 25 years ago. School has gotten too expensive and pay has been stagnant for too long, so we can't just tell Gen Z to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. Hard for them to win a game with the wealthy elite (the 0.1%) have changed all the rules in their favor.

 

[JRH]

Call it whatever you like.

If you feel the world owes you anything without participation then we are definitely not going to see eye to eye.

The same CEOs are in the same club as the Politicians. Same families, same schools, same social circles.

Limit Government to its original mandate and you limit all the rest you have just mentioned.

Yea ..and and and all I can add to that is yea…and maybe Sue Sue Psuedio…right on…! Yea.

 

[BillSF]

Call it whatever you like.

If you feel the world owes you anything without participation then we are definitely not going to see eye to eye.

Human nature will never allow for an altruistic government or country.

Someone always wants more than the next guy for the same effort.
Someone always wants to do nothing and get everything.

Life isn’t fair or Equitable.

I don't think the world owes me anything, but we aren't wild animals either.

I've "got mine" without screwing other people, so whatever I say I want, is for my children, grandchildren and whoever inherits the Earth.

Saying Life isn't fair or Equitable only goes so far. "Life isn't fair" so I can take everything you have if I'm able?

 

[BillSF]

I don't think the world owes me anything, but we aren't wild animals either.

I've "got mine" without screwing other people, so whatever I say I want, is for my children, grandchildren and whoever inherits the Earth.

Saying Life isn't fair or Equitable only goes so far. "Life isn't fair" so I can take everything you have if I'm able?

Call it whatever you like.

If you feel the world owes you anything without participation then we are definitely not going to see eye to eye.

Human nature will never allow for an altruistic government or country.

Someone always wants more than the next guy for the same effort.
Someone always wants to do nothing and get everything.

Life isn’t fair or Equitable.

Actually, answer this for me. If someone works 2x jobs as a cashier or similar for 28 hours each per week for 56 hours, are they not working hard enough to deserve benefits? This is in the common case where retail employers intentionally aim to have two times as many part time employees as full time in order to avoid paying benefits.

Are they abusing the system to take advantage of you? Or are employers like Walmart and similar companies taking advantage of the system to avoid paying benefits?

I haven't really said ANYTHING about providing for people who are lazy other than saying I don't believe in letting other human beings starve.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Actually, answer this for me. If someone works 2x jobs as a cashier or similar for 28 hours each per week for 56 hours, are they not working hard enough to deserve benefits? This is in the common case where retail employers intentionally aim to have two times as many part time employees as full time in order to avoid paying benefits.

Are they abusing the system to take advantage of you? Or are employers like Walmart and similar companies taking advantage of the system to avoid paying benefits?

I haven't really said ANYTHING about providing for people who are lazy other than saying I don't believe in letting other human beings starve.

Like I said before CEOS and politicians are all part of the same club.

Same families, same schools same social circles.

The get politicians to pass laws to keep the situation you describe stats quo.

They allow for Monopolies such as Walmart or Amazon or Google , Ect.

Fix the problem not steal from everyone else to try to solve the problem.

Limit Government to its original mandate and problem solved.
Get them out of our business.

Unions aren’t the answer either just the flip side of the coin. They had their day and like everything else got greedy.

Nobody said anything about letting people starve but if they expect you to feed them without providing any effort well sorry.

I’m not talking about the obvious cases who can’t. I talking about the ones who can but refuse to work.

What exactly is a “living “ wage?

$15,20,30,40 an hour?
Anyone paying them this wage passes cost of good and services right back to the same people.

Right back where you started with evermore expensive goods and services.