Dielectric grease with LFP anyone?

[SparkyGage]

Original Question (Dec '23):
I'm just curious if anyone else is using Dielectric Grease with LFP batteries? I'm a firm believer of using in automotive and farm applications, as well as marine, with LEAD batteries, but was wondering if there was any concerns or negative experiences with LFP? (I'm also believer of using Motorcraft XG-12 on electrical connections in outdoor machines)

The only thing that kept me from using DG this summer by default was the fact that I was disconnecting/reconnecting the battery all summer and new I'd be cleaning it regularly. I've now attached quick connects and had the instinct paint a film on the terminals, but thought I'd ask if anyone knows something about LFP if don't with DG.

Summary (Apr '24):
So here is what I have learned from the links in this discussion and further research into the products:

1) NO-OX-ID is a contact enhancer(?) that is designed to penetrate the layer of Aluminum Oxide that forms rapidly on any aluminum surface. It's best use case is BETWEEN contact points as the zinc crystals (their words, not mine) suspended in the gel pierce this layer if it has formed before the connection. With proper torque, the excess is squeezed out. As it is oxygen free, it could be used to coat the exterior of the connection to prevent corrosion.

2)Dielectric Grease (ie Silicone Grease) is also oxygen free and if applied AFTER proper cleaning AND torquing of the connection, will inhibit formation of Aluminum Oxide.

So the takeaway is: If you have, or can get NO-OX-ID, use it. If not, Dielectric Grease is an acceptable second choice for a properly cleaned and torqued connection and is almost always better than nothing in a harsh or exposed environment.

 

[hwy17]

What is the application?

 

[yabert]

I'm just curious if anyone else is using Dielectric Grease with LFP batteries?

With LFP, NMC, NCA, Lead acid and any chemistry. All have electrical contacts, so of course I add some anti oxidation grease.
No-Ox-ID A special in my case.

 

[SparkyGage]

What is the application?

Fresh water 24v 100Ah trolling motor battery for a 85lb thrust motor on a sailboat. Battery "box" is well above the deck line, but subject to minimal occasional splash.

 

[hwy17]

Fresh water 24v 100Ah trolling motor battery for a 85lb thrust motor on a sailboat. Battery "box" is well above the deck line, but subject to minimal occasional splash.

Oh makes sense then. I wouldn't use it in my house cause then I'd feel obligated to clean it all off every time I reconfigured the connection.

 

[SparkyGage]

Oh makes sense then. I wouldn't use it in my house cause then I'd feel obligated to clean it all off every time I reconfigured the connection.

Yeah, if I expect to disconnect a battery in less than 6 months, I'm not apt to coat it, but anything I'm connecting for the life of the battery (ie more than 6 months), I prefer to use. But wasn't sure if there is an issue with LFP. (and I only use a thin film in any application)

 

[hwy17]

Yeah, if I expect to disconnect a battery in less than 6 months, I'm not apt to coat it, but anything I'm connecting for the life of the battery (ie more than 6 months), I prefer to use. But wasn't sure if there is an issue with LFP. (and I only use a thin film in any application)

I'm not aware of any, but I've never considered it before either and don't use DG at all really. The battery is sealed so the only concern should be compatibility with the case and terminal material, which I have to guess is totally fine.

 

[Philip53]

I recently changed out my 12 year old Concorde AGM's for lithium, in my home system. The battery bank was located in an inside, partially conditioned space. Against my past experiences, at the time of original connections, I did not apply any type of protectant to the battery terminals. When I changed them out this year, the 12 year old connections were perfect, with no corrosion or degredation of any kind. Of course, the OP, in his application does require terminal protection, as does most any outdoor application. Just wanted to state my experience on these 'interior' AGM's.

 

[SparkyGage]

I'm not aware of any, but I've never considered it before either and don't use DG at all really. The battery is sealed so the only concern should be compatibility with the case and terminal material, which I have to guess is totally fine.

The reason I would want it is concern over 1)dissimilar metals at the terminals exposed to 2)moisture and 3)temperature fluctuation during use. With lead, this is always a corrosion magnet (although I always thought "acid-creep" from the electrolyte was a contributing factor that LFP doesn't seem to have)

 

[Bob B]

A more common product I have seen for this purpose .... and what I have been using ...... is Noalox because of the typical copper / aluminum terminal connections.

 

[42OhmsPA]

NO-OX-ID Two 2-Ounce Tubs A-Special Electrical Contact Grease - Improves Conductivity and Fights Corrosion in Automotive Marine Industrial Maintenance Antenna and Railroad Applications https://a.co/d/0ORuZRa

 

[yabert]

For those who want conductive grease: Mg chem 847
847 is a carbon-filled, silicone-free conductive paste. It improves electrical connections between non-moving parts in the same way a thermal paste improves thermal connections.
But $$

 

[BobR]

I'm just curious if anyone else is using Dielectric Grease with LFP batteries? I'm a firm believer of using in automotive and farm applications, as well as marine, with LEAD batteries, but was wondering if there was any concerns or negative experiences with LFP? (I'm also believer of using Motorcraft XG-12 on electrical connections in outdoor machines)

The only thing that kept me from using DG this summer by default was the fact that I was disconnecting/reconnecting the battery all summer and new I'd be cleaning it regularly. I've now attached quick connects and had the instinct paint a film on the terminals, but thought I'd ask if anyone knows something about LFP if don't with DG.

Here is an interesting article: https://www.practical-sailor.com/boat-maintenance/conductive-greases-vs-corrosion

 

[Steve_S]

Standard dielectric grease in not intended for out types of application. No-A-Lox and similar products as mentioned above is what is used in this sector. Lesson have been learned & shared, yet certain things are like zombies and come back...

 

[Skypower]

I use No-Ox-ID A special on just about every electrical connection. Lifepo4 cell/buss/terminal connections to marine battery and fuse block terminals. I’ve found it even combats corrosion on problematic automotive battery terminals. It simply keeps moisture laden air out of an electrical junction while being neutral reactive itself. This is that amber colored grease that you may have encountered on many occasions on factory assemblies.

 

[Skypower]

There are some application specific antioxidants/dielectrics greases that contain metals or carbon. Based on my personal experiences I would avoid using these on aluminum terminaled lifepo4 cell assemblies. You may be simply introducing a third dissimilar metal or microscopic impediments in the junction. After using a zinc containing compound and months later cell disassembly for a different configuration, I discovered that the contact surfaces were etched and discolored. Junction performance had not yet been affected. If it isn’t translucent, I wouldn’t use it. Keep air out, do no harm.

 

[kolek]

@Skypower @AntronX @Bob B @42OhmsPA or anyone that knows...

Where should we apply No-Ox-ID A special?
I'm seeing conflicting information.

Should it be applied to:
1. every location there is a stud and ring terminal?
2. threads?
3. the actual contact surfaces, or just the outer surfaces of the connectors after the ring terminal has been bolted to the studs?

 

[Luk88]

Standard dielectric grease in not intended for out types of application.

Could you link to some more resources on this, please?

I was out of dielectric grease so I used technical vaseline on my temporary setup (only for few days, it has been broken down since).

Someone may wonder why would I use anything just for few days. The answer is aluminium busbars. I've used stainless steel brush on my aluminium busbars and I applied vaseline immediately (then wiped 99% of it off with a piece of cloth) to prevent the oxide layer growing back. The result was a set of 16 busbars that had very consistent and predictable resistance. In fact it worked so well I'm considering using aluminum busbars for my permanent setup.

No-A-Lox and similar products as mentioned above is what is used in this sector. Lesson have been learned & shared, yet certain things are like zombies and come back...

Noalox based on the mads is zinc powder in hydrophilic silica. I imagine it's supposed to prevent galvanic corrosion as zinc does that with certain metals, but how would it affect aluminium to aluminum bond beyond just physically stopping oxygen getting to it (as any other silica based or even grease product could) I have no idea. I'm not saying I don't believe it works. I'm just wondering how.

 

[toms]

Its fine to use as long as you keep it away from surfaces that need to be conductors.

ie: use conductive antioxidant between battery and terminal, then coat outside of terminal with dielectric grease to prevent moisture damage.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

@Skypower @AntronX @Bob B @42OhmsPA or anyone that knows...

Where should we apply No-Ox-ID A special?
I'm seeing conflicting information.

Should it be applied to:
1. every location there is a stud and ring terminal?
2. threads?
3. the actual contact surfaces, or just the outer surfaces of the connectors after the ring terminal has been bolted to the studs?

I put it on the lower surface of my bus bar prior to clamping down on to the terminals, so in effect the actual contact faces only.