DIY battery legal to use?

[rs50pilot]

I have been searching on the forum and can't seem to find anything about this. I'm on California and want to build a 15 is kwh battery. But is it legal to use a DIY battery?
I have a transfer switch on the house now. I was going to run 6 panels off grid to charge the batteries which will be connected to a MPP or Growatt hybrid inverter.

My 20 panel enphase system will run the house normally and I will use the offgrid inverter/ battery bank to power the 110 loads connected to my transfer switch everyday.

But are there any legal issues with this? Or rather home insurance issues?

 

[time2roll]

You can get a permit from the city to verify all is in compliance. Nothing inherently wrong with self assembled components.
Your home insurance should not be an issue unless you do something deliberate to cause damage.

 

[rs50pilot]

Ok, I'm going to the building department tomorrow, I'll ask them about a battery.

 

[Roadrunner0]

Are the batteries Chinese imports?? Are they stamped UL approved and that is verified since tons of stuff from China has been getting in without real approval/inspection?? That will be what an inspector will look for along with the compliance of conductors, attachment, container, fusing, fire hazard and so on.. If the insurance underwriter comes out and looks at it I guarantee if it was not done and signed off by a licensed contractor your rates will go up or they will drop you in a New York second..

 

[RCinFLA]

Don't believe either of the two inverters are UL approved so will not be able to get permit approval.

I think I saw Growatt is claiming "UL complient". That means nothing. You have to supply the manufacturer UL cert number document. The UL approval certificate number can be looked up on UL website to verify it is real.

You can get around permit/approval by making an inverter/battery roller cart with a cord that plugs into a permitted generator input port.
The panels will be a problem as they are mounted and considered part of structure needing permitting.

 

[sunshine]

Ok, I'm going to the building department tomorrow, I'll ask them about a battery.

What about the transfer switch?
Seems odd that a properly installed/ approved transfer switch was connected with nothing on the non-mains side.

 

[rs50pilot]

Sunshine, what are you asking? My transfer switch was signed off. I was going to the city for a different purpose.

RCinFLA
The panels shouldn't be a problem. Starting completely from scratch and have to have my on grid section permitted. I'll just do it all at once. I doubt the inspector is even going to come the the job site to look at it. They seem to de everything through text now.

 

[Supervstech]

It would depend on which code they are following… the 2020 NEC requires the batteries installed be ul listed devices…
So… likely not allowed, but it depends on the authority…

 

[Wellbuilt]

It is what it is , even if they pass your inspection ? and you have a fire your insurance could deny your claim.
In NY every thing has to be UL listed , my inspector dosent even know anything thing about off grid solar .

 

[rs50pilot]

Thanks everyone, I kind of figured that the insurance company wouldn't like a homebuilt battery.

 

[Wellbuilt]

I think if your power system starts a fire in your home , it dosent matter if it passed inspection .
They will try to get out of paying .

 

[mrzed001]

It would depend on which code they are following… the 2020 NEC requires the batteries installed be ul listed devices…
So… likely not allowed, but it depends on the authority…

Do I remember correctly that the EVE cells have UL ...something ?
In EVE's official alibaba page there is this in the cell description: Certificate: CE/RoHS/UN38.3/MSDS/UL
In http://www.evebatteryusa.com/quality_service.htm is an UL something too (are they legit ?)

 

[time2roll]

I think if your power system starts a fire in your home , it dosent matter if it passed inspection .
They will try to get out of paying .

Insurance will pay unless you do something deliberate. You can get drunk and drive through the front window and they will still pay as long as it was accidental. And besides LFP is not prone to ignition even during thermal runaway.

 

[rs50pilot]

Insurance will pay unless you do something deliberate. You can get drunk and drive through the front window and they will still pay as long as it was accidental. And besides LFP is not prone to ignition even during thermal runaway.

You have a good point.

 

[sunshine]

Sunshine, what are you asking? My transfer switch was signed off. I was going to the city for a different purpose

Different countries different rules.
I just wanted you to cover all your bases before going to the council. Seems that you do with all the other posts.

 

[rs50pilot]

Different countries different rules.
I just wanted you to cover all your bases before going to the council. Seems that you do with all the other posts.

Thanks

 

[Wellbuilt]

When you start building a battery and Assembling it you are no longer ul listed .
So that gives them an out .
I’ve had 2 inspectors all ready tell me that they can’t pass it unless its a battery assembled complete from
A manufacturer ?
I have good luck with home owners Insurance claims.
I normally get every thing I ask for and then some . But I would not risk 100s of thousands of dollars on using a battery and bms from China .
It’s just not worth it .
I’m a lead acid guy any way and will probably stay that way .

 

[rs50pilot]

When you start building a battery and Assembling it you are no longer ul listed .
So that gives them an out .
I’ve had 2 inspectors all ready tell me that they can’t pass it unless its a battery assembled complete from
A manufacturer ?
I have good luck with home owners Insurance claims.
I normally get every thing I ask for and then some . But I would not risk 100s of thousands of dollars on using a battery and bms from China .
It’s just not worth it .
I’m a lead acid guy any way and will probably stay that way .

I see your point, but everything is from China I think my new plan is to run 20 panels enphase grid tied.
I'll use my extra 6 connected with tigos to a sol ark 5k to run my transfer switch. I'll be UL with the solark.

Now I'm reading to see if the 5k is ok in CA to sell to the grid.

Still reading if I could then use the Gen port on the Sol ark to run one of my enphase arrays ac coupled when the grid goes down.
I'll have my 6 panels DC to the mpp to the 5k, grid tied all the time, and if it works out switch one ac coupled array to the Sol ark when the grid goes down.
Might be a pipe dream, so my search continues. No need for a 8 or 12k Sol ark as I would rather run my main system with micros. Our grid has been pretty reliable, but you never know that CA is going to do so I want to set us up for the worst case.

 

[Wellbuilt]

All the rules for solar are changing here im in ny .
I don’t run a all in one system like what you are looking at it sounds complicated .
I do have a all in one outback system that just works , just hook up your wires , battery’s ,solar panels generator house panel and grid Connection and your done
There is nothing to figure out I can sell power to the grid , if the power gos out the inverter switches to battery if the battery’s get low , the generator starts and powers the load and charges the battery , it can be controlled Remotely .
My set up is straightforward
I have no grid so I just have a second larger generator wired in but never use it .
i have 4500watts of solar on my roof , and will have a second set of 4500watts panels with a out back fm80 cc on the ground but I only need them in winter.
I have no need for all the automation , I just start my generator I can walk out to the generator shed and push the button or pull the cored .
By buddy has a Totally automated outback system , it has been running for 23 years he is on his 3rd battery bank .
He has changed out his charge controller so far .
I don’t know what you guys do with 12000 watts ? I’m guessing AC ?
My place runs on 2/300 watts day in day out .
I can run the washer / dryer frig and freezer water pump and lights tv and all my regular loads with a 3600watt out back unit that serges to 6k but I don’t see , use 3000 watts ever .
I heat with wood and it’s not hot enough for ac here I burn 10 months a year .
I have radiant heat in my concrete floor so that will draw some power.

 

[rs50pilot]

All the rules for solar are changing here im in ny .
I don’t run a all in one system like what you are looking at it sounds complicated .
I do have a all in one outback system that just works , just hook up your wires , battery’s ,solar panels generator house panel and grid Connection and your done

Sol ark is exactly the same way. Hook up grid, loads and gen or ac couple. Add battery and your done.

As for needed so much power... It gets past 100° regularly in the summer and into the high 30s in the winter. AC is the reason as you suspected.