Insurance and DIY Battery banks

[noobie]

There is a lot of crap from Amazon that is not UL listed that people buy and use. If that caused a fire, and insurance didn't cover, there'd be mass pitchforks, because not everyone has any clue about UL stuff. I mean, how many cheap power banks are out on Amazon, battery scooters, etc, that are most certainly NOT UL or ETL and they blow up spectacularly because they have terrible quality and are NMC based?

I'm willing to be most DIY LFP banks are safer than these cheap scooters out there.

It's a bit surprising that insurance companies don't have a problem with these DIY batteries, given that the electrical code requires UL9540.
Your last statement is probably true that DIY LFP batteries are safer than the cheap LiPo batteries that you buy off of amazon and elsewhere.

However, maybe this hasn't been tested in court here yet but I guess do so at your own risk, or don't put it in a "dwelling zone"

"In Canada, UL9540A certification is required for indoor battery installations in dwelling zones, as defined by the Canadian Electrical Code (CEC). Dwelling zones are areas of a building where people live or sleep, including areas such as homes, apartments, and dormitories. The CEC defines a dwelling unit as "a room or group of rooms forming a single habitable unit equipped and intended for use as a residence by one or more persons, and containing cooking, eating, living, and sleeping facilities."

The CEC requires that indoor battery installations in dwelling zones meet the requirements of Section 20 of the code, which includes compliance with UL9540A for fire performance. Specifically, Section 20 of the CEC requires that indoor ESS installations in dwelling zones comply with the following:

• The ESS must be listed for the intended use and comply with the requirements of UL9540A for fire performance.
• The ESS must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, and any additional instructions provided by the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ).
• The ESS must be installed in a location that is well-ventilated, dry, and free from any sources of heat or ignition.
• The ESS must be equipped with a disconnecting means that is readily accessible and within sight of the equipment."

Reference(not trying to link to their products, just the above part. hopefully that's allowed):

https://solarpowerstore.ca/collections/off-grid-system-for-indoor-installations

 

[Partimewages]

Not saying insurance doesn't but if they start denying every claim that would have a huge impact on lenders.
Remember even though NEC requires listing there is no requirement for product manufacturing to produce with that listing so there is many non listed products available in the market. Most people don't know the difference.

 

[Oldphile]

It is possible that an insurance company may drop your coverage. I've never had a home inspection by my home owners insurance, but every so many years the insurance company for the condominium does do an inspection. Most likely, they would give us the opportunity to remedy an infraction.

 

[SilverbackMP]

It's a bit surprising that insurance companies don't have a problem with these DIY batteries, given that the electrical code requires UL9540.
Your last statement is probably true that DIY LFP batteries are safer than the cheap LiPo batteries that you buy off of amazon and elsewhere.

However, maybe this hasn't been tested in court here yet but I guess do so at your own risk, or don't put it in a "dwelling zone"

"In Canada, UL9540A certification is required for indoor battery installations in dwelling zones, as defined by the Canadian Electrical Code (CEC). Dwelling zones are areas of a building where people live or sleep, including areas such as homes, apartments, and dormitories. The CEC defines a dwelling unit as "a room or group of rooms forming a single habitable unit equipped and intended for use as a residence by one or more persons, and containing cooking, eating, living, and sleeping facilities."

The CEC requires that indoor battery installations in dwelling zones meet the requirements of Section 20 of the code, which includes compliance with UL9540A for fire performance. Specifically, Section 20 of the CEC requires that indoor ESS installations in dwelling zones comply with the following:

• The ESS must be listed for the intended use and comply with the requirements of UL9540A for fire performance.
• The ESS must be installed in accordance with the manufacturer's instructions, and any additional instructions provided by the authority having jurisdiction (AHJ).
• The ESS must be installed in a location that is well-ventilated, dry, and free from any sources of heat or ignition.
• The ESS must be equipped with a disconnecting means that is readily accessible and within sight of the equipment."

Reference(not trying to link to their products, just the above part. hopefully that's allowed):

https://solarpowerstore.ca/collections/off-grid-system-for-indoor-installations

They gonna cancel all policies in the states (three I think) that don’t mandate NEC statewide?

 

[noobie]

They gonna cancel all policies in the states (three I think) that don’t mandate NEC statewide?

This thread is for Canada originally, and I don't know about the states and the various applications of NEC.
In the CEC(Canadian Electrical Code), there are requirements for these systems.
If you do happen to have a fire and had an unpermitted installation of any kind and some or all of the components weren't UL9540/UL9540a, would the insurance pay out? Would they pay out once and cancel you, making it hard to get insurance in the future?
I'm not trying to poop on anyone's parade, and the scenario is hypothetical but I'm just surprised that the insurance companies don't actually require these things at the moment, given that the CEC does require it.

 

[SilverbackMP]

If you do happen to have a fire and had an unpermitted installation of any kind and some or all of the components weren't UL9540/UL9540a, would the insurance pay out? Would they pay out once and cancel you, making it hard to get insurance in the future?

Think about it. If a state hasn’t adopted the NEC statewide, do you think they mandate permits and inspections statewide too?

And other states have adopted the NEC but still don’t have mandates for permits or inspections.

 

[noobie]

Think about it. If a state hasn’t adopted the NEC statewide, do you think they mandate permits and inspections statewide too?

And other states have adopted the NEC but still don’t have mandates for permits or inspections.

Again, it may be different in the USA, but the original post is about Ontario Canada.

From what I see, the CEC is adopted by all provinces and territories

Code Authorities in Canada | UL Solutions of Canada

A Quick find for authorities responsible for codes in Canada. Building, Plumbing and Fire Codes Responsibility for building regulation in Canada rests with the provinces and territories; each province and territory can adopt any code […]

canada.ul.com

 

[Partimewages]

There is no uniform code adoption in the US. Every jurisdiction adopts on its own and can even be on different revisions of the NEC.
Canada is different. If it's universally law/adoption its much easier to have insurance rules which may exclude unpermitted instalation.

That still doesn't protect the lenders. Consult your attorney for your exact terms and conditions for loans and insurance! All large organizations number one priority is to mitigate risk. Which is another way to say your holding the bag!