diy off-grid regulation in Australia

[curiouscarbon]

earth alert!!!!!

you are on earth!!!

 

[toms]

Sometimes i wonder if the Australian regulators ARE on planet earth !

 

[upnorthandpersonal]

Considering that this is one of the guys on the AS/NZS 5033 committee, I doubt it:

 

[sunshine]

earth alert!!!!!

you are on earth!!!

Please....This is a serious thread.
You are grounded!

 

[curiouscarbon]

Please....This is a serious thread.
You are grounded!

Nooooo my potential

 

[Jhelg]

here is a petition for interested people to sign requesting free access to all Australian standards.

https://www.aph.gov.au/e-petitions/petition/EN4101

 

[sunshine]

here is a petition for interested people to sign requesting free access to all Australian standards.

https://www.aph.gov.au/e-petitions/petition/EN4101

About time some action is taken to correct this.

For those wanting to know-
A foreign company, the US owned SAI Global were sold the rights to distribute Australian and NZ Standards a number of years ago and has been screwing us with ever increasing costs ever since. Whatever government numbat thought this to be ok is probably the real story!!

I see the web page for SAI Global now has this notice-

Standards & Legislation Store APAC – SAI Global Infostore

SAI Global Standards & Legislation provides 1.5 million Standards from 350+ publishers. Find your standards for APAC now & achieve strong business performance

infostore.saiglobal.com

"SAI Global Standards is now part of Intertek, a leading Total Quality Assurance provider to industries worldwide."
....no doubt a lower taxation region.....time to screw the US?

 

[Warpspeed]

I currently have a 100 volt system (thirty LiFePO4 cells) and its been operating for enough years to keep me in the original less than 120 volt category.

So what I "could" do is ground the centre point of my battery so its +/- 50v dc.
It would need some interesting redesign of the home built solar controllers, but it would then effectively become two 50 volt systems.

Many homes in Australia, including my own, are supplied with two or three separate 240v phases.
Its still considered to be a 240v system, even though there is 415 volts between phases.

I don't see how two 50 volt dc systems are any different than that in the strict legal sense.
I am sure a silver tongued lawyer might successfully argue that distinction.

 

[toms]

It’s a pretty odd regulatory system where i am legally able to design and install a 40000V ignition system in my vehicle, but i can’t install a 160V PV array.

 

[sunshine]

It would need some interesting redesign of the home built solar controllers, but it would then effectively become two 50 volt systems.

Still illegal!!.... Only 12 & 24v systems come under the new lower voltage rules (38v?)

Even my 12v system contravenes some chapters I have seen because the number of panels exceed the power limitation.

 

[toms]

Still illegal!!.... Only 12 & 24v systems come under the new lower voltage rules (38v?)

Even my 12v system contravenes some chapters I have seen because the number of panels exceed the power limitation.

PV is still ELV (120V)
BESS (batteries) are DVC-A (60V)

This is exactly why we need the standards to be easily accessible.

 

[Tim Tim]

Just came across this thread.

Australian Standards are not laws and are only enforceable when called up by legislation. In other words there has to be Acts or Regulations under Federal or State legislation that call them up then they become referenced documents and they can then be enforceable. Sometimes the whole standard is not called but it would be a long winded explanation to give such an example.

 

[dangriffo32]

I have read the draft of the new standards. And my understanding of it is, any circuit directly connected to the circuit you wish to work on that is above 60v then makes the whole circuit illegal to work on without electrical licence. It mentions that for instance a charge controller with an input greater than 60v will then mean that the whole circuit then becomes dvc-b and requires an electrician to work on it.

It also means that as soon as you connect an inverter to the circuit, because it has the potential to produce 240v. The whole circuit then becomes dvc-b. So basically you can't run pretty much any panels in series or even use an inverter or it then becomes illegal for you to work on the system without a licence.

And because it's very hard to get any solar Panels that will charge a 48v battery and be below 60v you pretty much can't have 48v battery without an electrical licence either.

So all you can really do is have a 24v battery and charge it from solar panels in parralel. You can't even connect an inverter to it.

 

[houseofancients]

I have read the draft of the new standards. And my understanding of it is, any circuit directly connected to the circuit you wish to work on that is above 60v then makes the whole circuit illegal to work on without electrical licence. It mentions that for instance a charge controller with an input greater than 60v will then mean that the whole circuit then becomes dvc-b and requires an electrician to work on it.

It also means that as soon as you connect an inverter to the circuit, because it has the potential to produce 240v. The whole circuit then becomes dvc-b. So basically you can't run pretty much any panels in series or even use an inverter or it then becomes illegal for you to work on the system without a licence.

And because it's very hard to get any solar Panels that will charge a 48v battery and be below 60v you pretty much can't have 48v battery without an electrical licence either.

So all you can really do is have a 24v battery and charge it from solar panels in parralel. You can't even connect an inverter to it.

so it seems the lobby from the electricians has won over there.
these rules make it effectively impossible to DIY anything solar

 

[Warpspeed]

Are you absolutely sure about that ?
The ELV (extra low voltage) limit has been raised from 60v to 120v for do it yourself projects.

You may have seen a draft of a proposed future change back to 60v, but as of now its still 120v as far as I am aware.
Anything is possible, but until they actually make another change, let's worry about that when it happens.
They cannot make laws retrospective. If the limit was 120v when the equipment was installed its still legal.

I do not have the latest copy of AS3000 here with me right now, but I have been told and read that 120v is currently the limit in Australia and New Zealand.

 

[toms]

I have read the draft of the new standards. And my understanding of it is, any circuit directly connected to the circuit you wish to work on that is above 60v then makes the whole circuit illegal to work on without electrical licence. It mentions that for instance a charge controller with an input greater than 60v will then mean that the whole circuit then becomes dvc-b and requires an electrician to work on it.

It also means that as soon as you connect an inverter to the circuit, because it has the potential to produce 240v. The whole circuit then becomes dvc-b. So basically you can't run pretty much any panels in series or even use an inverter or it then becomes illegal for you to work on the system without a licence.

And because it's very hard to get any solar Panels that will charge a 48v battery and be below 60v you pretty much can't have 48v battery without an electrical licence either.

So all you can really do is have a 24v battery and charge it from solar panels in parralel. You can't even connect an inverter to it.

I’m glad you aren’t a licensed electrician.

 

[Warpspeed]

Never claimed to be a licensed electrician.
Are you ?

 

[toms]

Never claimed to be a licensed electrician.
Are you ?

Who rattled your chain? My quote was aimed at @dangriffo32, who was providing misleading information. (ie, any inverter connected circuit needs to be installed by a licensed electrician)

The correct info is in post #31.

I install residential and mobile power systems and employ licensed trades as required. I haven’t read the standards, my information comes directly from people that specialise in this area. No point having a dog and barking too.

Interestingly the most dangerous electrical items i install are custom ignition systems that are over 100ka. Not covered by any legislation.

 

[PeterInSa]

Re (35V DC and above is to be deemed hazardous and all conductor parts that can carry 35V or more will have to have earth alarms.)


Don’t know about that Requirement in Oz ie down to 35v DC, when the only earth guard I could find was for 60v to 300v Systems, and then you have to set up a system to link into your alarm system for remote monitoring. What earth alarms are there for a 50V System?.

( looking at (2x 500w 48V Panels in Parallel driving a 60amp PowMr Controller) Times 2, each driving a 24v 100 amp SOK Lithium, with an electrician connecting the 4Kw Inverter to the distribution panel and running the house cables.)

AERL EarthGuard Ground Fault Detection - EG-300

The AERL EG-300 EarthGuard Insulation Monitoring Device simultaneously monitors the unearthed PV Array (60-300V) & Battery Storage System (48/120V). Installed on the battery bus, the EarthGuard monitoring device satisfies the earth fault detection requirements of both AS/NZS 5033:2014 & AS/NZS...

solarboxaustralia.au

 

[wattmatters]

The regulations are pointless if people are unable to reasonably access them.

I get a licensed electrician to handle the AC distribution side of things. The rest I look after. Most sparkies I come across here haven't the foggiest idea about off-grid DC stuff.