Does the Conext MPPT 60 ‘talks’ with the BMS (Pylontech emulation) via Insight Home?

[jcc]

Greetings,

I have an AC coupled XW Pro 6848 integrated with a BMS (Pylontech emulation – recognized by Insight Home). The integration is not perfect. When charging from the grid, and the BMS instructs the inverter to reduce the amps (from 140 to 15 {charging allowed but at reduced amps}), the inverter just stops charging for a while (until the BMS restore the amps to the previous value) and then resume. It’s not ideal, but works. During grid outages the inverter noise (during the day, just when ac coupled) drives me crazy. Because of that I’m going to add a couple of panels what were purchased previously. I bought a Conext MPPT 60 150. But I’m not sure if that was the right decision. Does the Conext MPPT 60 ‘talks’ with the BMS like the inverter does? If the BMS is recognized by Insight Home and the Conext MPPT 60 is connected to the Xanbus. Will the Conext stop charging when the BMS send the stop charging command? I just want to prevent a ‘hard’ shutdown (BMS turn off the contactor). Do not care if the Conext MPPT ignores the charge amps like the inverter does. Thank you very much.

 

[400bird]

Sorry you didn't receive any responses, this just popped up for me.
If you read Schneider's release notes and documentation, no their MPPTs do not support BMS communication. They say that is coming in a future software update, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

 

[jcc]

Sorry you didn't receive any responses, this just popped up for me.
If you read Schneider's release notes and documentation, no their MPPTs do not support BMS communication. They say that is coming in a future software update, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Thank you. Yes, that seems to be the case. I have not installed it yet. But did several tests using a 60v 2 amps power supply. The charger is not smart. Does not follow the reduce amps message from the BMS. Nor the stop charging command from the BMS. The inverter does not reduce the amps. But in both instances stop charging. Don’t get me wrong. The charge controller is very good. Can charge at 55.2v from 60v. But the only reason I bought it was because I was under the impression that Schneider has full BMS integration with approved BMSs. But that is not the case. The only one that does (it seems) is the inverter. If I had known, I would have purchased other CC. One with an on/off digital input.

It's sad. Schneider’s hardware is top notch and has a lot potential. The newer Insight Home has 2 12v digital inputs. I know that programming hardware (microcontrollers) is hard. But I think is feasible to put those digital input to work. Use one to put all inverter to standby (disallow discharge) and stop all charging using the second one. That way you can establish a semi closed loop communication with 90% of BMS. No CAN Bus, RS485 or modbus necessary. Why make it hard when you can make it easy. Beats me…

 

[ElectricIslander]

I don't know the case for Pylontech but isn't the problem the other way around, i.e. in the various BMSs?

My understanding is that it's not really Schneider's role to rewrite their software to match the needs of every BMSs. Manufacturers like Schneider standardize their Canbus command and control protocols and distribute that information to battery and BMS programmers who adopt and program the appropriate commands to match their product's needs.

My understanding is that the Schneider systems communicate fully regarding charging with the BMSs within other batteries like the Discover batteries and other batteries. Some battery manufacturers may not have implemented the Xanbus / Modbus protocols that Schneider has for their MPPTs.

That said, interesting to hear that Schneider may be working on a pre-set profile to better match Pylontech batteries command set?

 

[400bird]

Here's a cut from Schneider's documentation.

 

[400bird]

I don't know the case for Pylontech but isn't the problem the other way around, i.e. in the various BMSs?

It would make so much more sense if this was the case. Or even better, if there was one standard and everyone could just follow it and have better intercompatibility.

Sadly, no. One vendor needs to write firmware to match what the other offers, for some stupid reason, it seems that is always the inverter manufacturer. Probably because the BMS/battery manufacturers don't have the capacity to write their own communication software.

 

[jtvt]

Probably a significant design change for MPPT integration since the Conext Battery Monitor also isn't integrated with MPPT. The MPPT is standalone and has no exposure to SoC other than through the absorb and float set points. The Battery Monitor has no ability to toggle charger disable either. This is mainly why I haven't bothered with bms/insight integration. Even if you have a cell fail, the BMS can't tell the MPPT to stop charging. So the BMS has to toggle the contactor/breaker.

 

[jcc]

I don't know the case for Pylontech but isn't the problem the other way around, i.e. in the various BMSs?

My understanding is that it's not really Schneider's role to rewrite their software to match the needs of every BMSs. Manufacturers like Schneider standardize their Canbus command and control protocols and distribute that information to battery and BMS programmers who adopt and program the appropriate commands to match their product's needs.

My understanding is that the Schneider systems communicate fully regarding charging with the BMSs within other batteries like the Discover batteries and other batteries. Some battery manufacturers may not have implemented the Xanbus / Modbus protocols that Schneider has for their MPPTs.

That said, interesting to hear that Schneider may be working on a pre-set profile to better match Pylontech batteries command set?

Yes. You are partially right. I’m not an expert. As I understand it there are 2 types of integration. One is from the inverter, charger or controller (InsightHome or Victron GX). And the other type is from the BMS to the inverter, charger or controller. In Schneider’s case, most are the first case. But the integration with Discover is of the second type. The first one is mainly Schneider’s responsibility. The second is mainly the third-party responsibility. When a connection is made using the first method it’s Schneider’s responsibility to react to the BMS commands (decrease amps, stop charging and stop discharging). At the end, the problem is that the Solar Industry is very fragmented. I do not understand why, in the era of open standards and specifications, no standard BMS communication protocol exists. That would make life easier for everyone. But that is a subject for another thread.

The problem is that, unfortunately, Schneider’s does not readily share information. I’m not 100% sure but have read threads (don’t remember where) that state that the Xanbus specification is closed. Some say it is encrypted. Others say they use a custom protocol. Because of that the only option for integration for most is modbus. Ether via TCP or RS485. Schneider’s have shared the XANbus specification with some companies (Discover). Because of that third parties are limited. The Orion BMS guys ‘cracked’ some parts of the Xanbus specification and successfully can place inverters and MPPTs in standby. The problem is that, supposedly, you will void the warranty if you send commands via xanbus from devices not certified by Schneider (I do not have a problem with that if they have, readily available, a modbus specification).

My argument is this. I can understand that some customers would need high-level access to perform complex automation tasks (TOU, etc.). But most customers just want to prevent nuisance trips. Why can’t Schneider provide that functionality using the two digital (12v) inputs in the newer InsightHome (that currently sit there doing nothing). Use one to disallow discharge and the other one to disallow charging. That way most customers can make a simple basic integration. I think that even PROs would use that (simple integration using relays vs complex PLC modbus solutions). That way they would reduce service calls (from customers like me expecting BMS integration with the MPPTs) and would increase sales (of both inverters and MPPTs). Not only sales from the residential market but also from businesses like Telcos who use DC loads.

For me the only motivation to buy the Conext MPPT was the BMS integration (nonexistent today). I have a Morningstar (the one with RS485) and would have purchased another or a Victron (the ones with the on/off jumper) or a Midnite Classic with the aux 2 input. Simpler integration via readily documented modbus specification with the first. Or via a simpler ‘relay’ integration with Victron or Midnite. Who is in the best position to send standby commands via XANbus? Right now, customers like me do not have an alternative (BMS-MPPT). The other solutions (modbus or Xanbus) are complex. Would require extensive testing. But sending simple standby commands via Xanbus should be easy (initiated from the digital input). The insightHome has the necessary CPU power. Why they can’t make it simple (and increase sales at the same time – for me is a win-win).

 

[jtvt]

Evidently there was a new firmware 1.18 release just a few days ago with "Support closed loop battery configuration pass through to MPPT". Not sure what that means...I suppose just configuration.

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