Took me about 8 weeks by train to Sweden due to Corona.
Dongguan Lighting: Purchase 280AH LiFePo4 cells. Purchase & Review
- Thread starter LukeVader
- Start date
Took me about 8 weeks by train to Sweden due to Corona.
Yes, but I'm building a pack of 8 series (24V). It will be only as good as the worse cell...
I'm new to this forum, and only have 2 years in solar. And started with lead-acid... can someone point me to a good thread (or video) that can help me about what are the correct actions to perform when the cells arrive? I'm thinking about doing a top balancing first (because I hear so much...) but then I believe I will need a bottom balance. This is because in cloudy days it may not complete the charge, but I do need that the bank holds the inverter as much as possible in the evening.
Sgt Raven
Solar Addict
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You could start with this thread. As for bottom balancing, the prevailing wisdom is, top balance only for storage, bottom balance for critical infrastructure. Maybe try it out with just top balance and see how it works.
https://diysolarforum.com/threads/h...g-yep-99-of-us-is-doing-it-wrong-part-1.3699/
loverofpeace
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Thanks for the info
Were you import duties/customs included in the price you paid? I may order with them over Amy because of the price. It's about 10% less for 4 280Ah cells to the Czech Republic.Thanks for the info
Yes, everything included!
loverofpeace
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I went with Xuba and have been very happy with service level, packaging and product performance so far. In fact, I placed another order for 16 additional cells just the other day.
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
With charging...
Be careful!
I pillowed one cell :-(
Charged with 12w..
It was around the nagging 3.35 and did not seem to move on.
So I kept it on the charger for a night.
Next morning it was a pillow.
I used this type of China Current and constant voltage lab power supply.
(Not official charger!!!)
3.35A, 3.6v as setting..
Still too high.
You CAN overcharge at 3.6v
It is already replaced and does a nice job now replace 2 D cell batteries that normally needed to be replaced quite often.
It still has about 145Ah (original 152Ah)
That will be years
My 48 152Ah cells are from Haomi.
I didn't get the nice strong corners, but a really good price and fast DDP transport to Thailand.
Be careful!
I pillowed one cell :-(
Charged with 12w..
It was around the nagging 3.35 and did not seem to move on.
So I kept it on the charger for a night.
Next morning it was a pillow.
I used this type of China Current and constant voltage lab power supply.
(Not official charger!!!)
3.35A, 3.6v as setting..
Still too high.
You CAN overcharge at 3.6v
It is already replaced and does a nice job now replace 2 D cell batteries that normally needed to be replaced quite often.
It still has about 145Ah (original 152Ah)
That will be years
My 48 152Ah cells are from Haomi.
I didn't get the nice strong corners, but a really good price and fast DDP transport to Thailand.
Tball
New Member
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- Mar 30, 2020
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So was this inevitable or was there something you could have done different to prevent this? I'm assuming that you're alluding to using a proper charger versus variable power supply?With charging...
Be careful!
I pillowed one cell :-(
Charged with 12w..
It was around the nagging 3.35 and did not seem to move on.
So I kept it on the charger for a night.
Next morning it was a pillow.
View attachment 12128
It is already replaced and does a nice job now replace 2 D cell batteries that normally needed to be replaced quite often.
It still has about 145Ah (original 152Ah)
That will be years
My 48 152Ah cells are from Haomi.
I didn't get the nice strong corners, but a really good price and fast DDP transport to Thailand.
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
Correct.
A proper charger would have reduced the Amperage down to 0.5 or even lower.
Mine was stuck on 3.35A
I could have manually lowered it..
If I wasn't sleeping
12w ain't much but enough to fry a cell.
One lesson learned is that the magic 3.65 is BAD!!!
Don't so it! BAD BOY!!
It's not Lead acid that is happy with full charge, it's lifepo4 that HATE to be fully charged
At 3.375v you have 99% capacity.
It is even advised to stay below the 3.35 v, 90% capacity to boost the cycle life.
Tesla does this I believe even 80-20 to boost their cycle count.
A proper charger would have reduced the Amperage down to 0.5 or even lower.
Mine was stuck on 3.35A
I could have manually lowered it..
If I wasn't sleeping
12w ain't much but enough to fry a cell.
One lesson learned is that the magic 3.65 is BAD!!!
Don't so it! BAD BOY!!
It's not Lead acid that is happy with full charge, it's lifepo4 that HATE to be fully charged
At 3.375v you have 99% capacity.
It is even advised to stay below the 3.35 v, 90% capacity to boost the cycle life.
Tesla does this I believe even 80-20 to boost their cycle count.
Turd Furguson
it's a funny name.
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You fried the cell because 3.35v is a full charge on the Higee cells and from my observation they won't go higher. You noticed the same and pushed your luck.
The datasheet shows the curve & charging parameters to hit the advertised 152ah... 3.65v on the charger until amps hit 7.5 (5%). After you remove the source they will rest at 3.35v.
Trying to get these cells to a resting voltage of 3.65v and/or current draw of zero is significantly overcharged & outside the documented parameters.
The datasheet shows the curve & charging parameters to hit the advertised 152ah... 3.65v on the charger until amps hit 7.5 (5%). After you remove the source they will rest at 3.35v.
Trying to get these cells to a resting voltage of 3.65v and/or current draw of zero is significantly overcharged & outside the documented parameters.
Tball
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@LukeVader do you recall what you paid for a 4-pack on dongguan? I just checked and they're at $410 per pack, were $300 beginning of March? Just doing a price comparison before I pull the trigger and noticed the $80 difference between them and Xuba.....
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
Yes, I make mistakes, shoot me, I'm Human and do not have all knowledge sharp available at any moment.
And yes, I make sometimes horrible judgement calls.
Like keeping the cell at 3.6 and 3.2a
12 watts really does not sound that much!!
Especially when you talk about 3.35*152= 510 watts.
According to many listings, 3.35 was shown as 70% charged.
Murphy law...
After I fried the cell I mostly see the charts where it states that at 3.35 you have 90% and at 3.36 95%!!
Naturally, I've posted my error with the correct list and started preaching that you should not want to try to get to 3.65 volts!!
(If look at older threads, they mostly speak about 3.65 and not to stop at 3.36 volt...)
So..
Yes, partly rooky mistake.
Partly misinformation.
If my fried cell helps others, then it was worth it.
It's good to see that the idea of wanting to go to 3.65 volts and talks about the safety of charging at 4.2volts per cell are mostly in the past now.
It's BAD practice to even talk about it!!
As 3.65 volts will DAMAGE your cells.
Damage as in: if under charging to 3.35 volts gives you hundreds of free cycles.... Is charging to the top 3.65 damaging??
That is up to you to decide.
While during charge the voltage might even be in the 4.2v range to speed things up, do not try to reach the 3.65v
That last 0.287 volts for 4% capacity...
Will cost you cycles.
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
This is discharge chart..
?✌We talk about a month ago.
You as "old timer" on this forum must remember that "back then" the talk of the town was charging to the 3.65v mark..
Good to see that is changing now.
It is within specifications, but damaging for the cell
It would be better if no one would ever talk about it again and make the Charging voltage standard 3.5v max (!!) After rest you end up with +3.35v/ +95%
That would increase the cycle life and reduce the damaged cells
Even then..
At 3.5v you CAN overcharge a cell.
(Long but interesting read)
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
Definitely NOT offensive.
The one by @Turd Furguson ..
Yes, a little
There are so many lists and charts..
Hard to know that is what.
If you try to understand this page (battery university) you get even more confused as they mix li-ion and lifepo4 like it's the same, but then different
It's hard to find real data.
Thanks to @Sojourner1 , I have a part of his extensive monitoring..
This is real life data.
And easy to see his 99-100% voltage in the real world.
There are so many lists, it's easy to get confused
Even @Turd Furguson takes the wrong one to explain
The ones from the factories are "useless" in real life.
In real life the cells from Sojourner1 are fully charged@ 3.525v and are @ 3.2265 volt 70%
Thanks Sojourner1 for sharing!!
LukeVader
Sun Farmer
Hi and yes I looked it up, I paid $323 usd for a set of 4
PS Just checked the price on the site and yes it's up there. But I'm also noticing there's no % discount right now either. I'll bet that typical sale price comes back soon like it's usually always been there.
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LukeVader
Sun Farmer
Correct.
A proper charger would have reduced the Amperage down to 0.5 or even lower.
Mine was stuck on 3.35A
I could have manually lowered it..
If I wasn't sleeping
12w ain't much but enough to fry a cell.
One lesson learned is that the magic 3.65 is BAD!!!
Don't so it! BAD BOY!!
It's not Lead acid that is happy with full charge, it's lifepo4 that HATE to be fully charged
At 3.375v you have 99% capacity.
It is even advised to stay below the 3.35 v, 90% capacity to boost the cycle life.
Here's my thought on the 3.35v charge.
When I charged to 3.35 then stopped there, the cells dropped well below this number. When I finally did my last charge and pushed through 3.35 it took a long time. Because these cells have such a huge longevity at 3.35 it's only reasonable to me that it would charge for a while at 3.35
I stopped at 3.63 and since I've stopped that charge they've been slowly dropping ever since over 6 days. Right now they have dropped down to 3.506v so far but at least they're still over 3.35 lol. I'm still waiting for my load tester to really test the capacity.
Anyway I think my number to charge up to will be 3.36v from now on.
Turd Furguson
it's a funny name.
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- 64
@fhorst mentions me twice so I must have struck a chord.
If you set your charger @ 3.35v they'll slow down and take forever... higher voltage is required to pass current and that's why a datasheet states recommended limits for when the charger/ cell hits 3.65v while charging. Using Higee as an example they say .05c >@ 3.65v. (~7amps for the 152ah cells).
To clarify, that doesn't mean the final voltage of the cell... cease charging and the voltage will settle.
I'm not sure why @fhorst is upset. From what I gather we have the same cells and the datasheet specifically mentions the charge procedure. The discharge table demonstrates the expected voltages of ~3.3v; nothing incorrect there.
You blew a cell trying to get to squeeze more amps into it, mentioning above that your CC/CV supply was forcing 3+ amps in at 3.65v. That's incorrect... the cell was absorbing it, and based on other reviews it's clear they can't sustain an overcharge.
For safety stick to 3.4-3.5v and be done with it.
If you set your charger @ 3.35v they'll slow down and take forever... higher voltage is required to pass current and that's why a datasheet states recommended limits for when the charger/ cell hits 3.65v while charging. Using Higee as an example they say .05c >@ 3.65v. (~7amps for the 152ah cells).
To clarify, that doesn't mean the final voltage of the cell... cease charging and the voltage will settle.
I'm not sure why @fhorst is upset. From what I gather we have the same cells and the datasheet specifically mentions the charge procedure. The discharge table demonstrates the expected voltages of ~3.3v; nothing incorrect there.
You blew a cell trying to get to squeeze more amps into it, mentioning above that your CC/CV supply was forcing 3+ amps in at 3.65v. That's incorrect... the cell was absorbing it, and based on other reviews it's clear they can't sustain an overcharge.
For safety stick to 3.4-3.5v and be done with it.
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
That's exactly what I'm upset about!!?
You ASSUME!! That I was "trying to get to squeeze more amps into it"
I was NOT!
I was simply re-charging the cell I had drawn empty to 2.55 volts with the capacity test.
As I don't had BMS at that time, this was my only way of recharge a single cell + it was my very first Lifepo4 charge cycle.
Low long is a piece of rope?
Reading that the charging seems to be stuck at 3.35 and actually living it, is different.
I had no way of knowing how long this would take.
Also, 12w felt like really low charge rate.
We talking about 3.2*152= little under 500w.
Total charging time would be 40 hours. That is at 100% efficiency..
A C-rate of 0.05 !!!
You are writing like I did something really stupid, that you (and all other people on the planet, but mostly you) know all charts and charging times by head, and have always the correct information available about your new unknown stuff.
I do not.
I think it is stupid to think that other people do.
And I think it shows total lack of respect to start assuming things at all.
That makes you the stupid one, who thinks of things that I never would.
Like pushing more Ah in a brand new cell.
Why would I want to overcharge my first new Lifepo4 cell?
Being absolute happy it delivered real close to the advertised 152ah??
Or better, why are you thinking / assuming I did??
Due to reactions like yours people don't want to share their "educational moments".
I'm sure you have had them a lot also.
This is how most humans learn on this planet. Trial and error.
Sharing the error can prevent others to make the same "mistake".
(Is every error a mistake? Or better, when is something a mistake?)
Bashing is easy, easy scoring.
But prevent people from sharing.
I'm sure you have had your share of educational moments.
Please do share so others don't have to.
Most people know that a discharge chart is totally different then a charge chart.
During discharge the voltages you are reading are lower then the actually are. If you stop discharge and let it rest, the voltage will rise again.
For charge, the voltage you are reading are higher then the cell voltage really is. When you stop charging and let it rest, then you know the actual voltage.
Please enlighten me.
What is correct voltage chart to read of during charge?
And what during discharge?
And does the amount of watts matter?
Or does one watt give the same readings as 1000 watts??
You seem to know this answer!!
Please share it with me.
As I really like to know.
(And this is not flame, sarcasm or any like this, I really do like to know a chart that I can actually use in my setup that is 24/7 in use, being charged or discharged..)
Apparently you don't see any difference?? Are they the same, and if so, why??
Assumptions are deadly.
You can ask me if I was "trying to get to squeeze more amps into it,".
Apparently that is what you would do with your 1600 USD new cells....
You where thinking it.
im not that stupid.
I like to handle them with care.
yes, I made mistake by using a wrong charger.
This is what I am informing other forum members about.
What will/could happen if you don't use special Lifepo4 charger.
Even at 3.5v you can overcharge and destroy your cells.!!
that is all.
But please... Do squeeze more amps in your cells and inform is how it goes.
As this is clearly on YOUR mind.
Not mine. Never was.
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Why should import tax via Czech Republic as first border vountry into the EU less? Import tax into the EU is calculated on final destination EU Country.Thanks for the info
loverofpeace
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No idea what you’re on about here mate. If you the cells via the slow shipping method (DDP) and you’re in the EU, both Dongguan and Xuba include customs as part of the shipping fee.
If you order it via air, you’ll have to pay customs.
Frank in Thailand
making mistakes so you don't have to...
No idea what you’re on about here mate.
No matter the transport method, you always need to pay tax, + importing costs the HS code determine how high this is.
Tax different per country.
HS code % is same for entire EU.
Transport via air, water soil or volcano..
That doesn't matter.
Tax and HS% is the same
DDP is that all costs are paid for.
The method of delivery does not change this
No matter the transport method, you always need to pay tax, + importing costs the HS code determine how high this is.
Tax different per country.
HS code % is same for entire EU.
Transport via air, water soil or volcano..
That doesn't matter.
Tax and HS% is the same
DDP is that all costs are paid for.
The method of delivery does not change this
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