Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

[Shale MacGregor]

I posed that info in post 2287 .... but I have lost the original article.

This one makes the same reference. https://vilnagaon.org/according-to-...ificance-in-the-prevention-of-severe-illness/

Thank you Bob! I had looked into that and it might be cherry picking based on a mistranslation but I haven't found any trustworthy sources. I've seen plenty of information saying the opposite but I will reserve judgement till I hear back from an acquaintance that speaks that language fluently. Appreciate the link!

 

[Shale MacGregor]

...then again even dumb hillbillies need a hobby?

Please do not use slurs against my people, the hills and the trees keep the sun off our necks

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

It gets a little more complicated as tests are normalized every 15 years or so and tests in different languages

Especially since the average American only speaks English. It's all about the averages.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Please do not use slurs against my people, the hills and the trees keep the sun off our necks

..and ticks and chiggers have a shady spot to land when they parachute down from the trees.

 

[noenegdod]

Bunch of dicks right?

Wrong.

I find it amazing that people will happily condemn the truckers and say they are preventing trade and others from being able to work when government is continuing to prevent individuals from working based on the narrative that vaccine is the only solution.

These are the facts:

• Vaccine is slightly less effective than natural infection in reducing the severity of symptoms or hospitalization.
• Vaccine administered to an individual that has had an infection does not reduce symptoms or hospitalization.
• Many people were infected before vaccine was available and insisting those people be vaccinated is counter to the science.
• Mandating Vaccine be the only recognized acceptable preventative solution for future hospitalization is pollitical, not science.

COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations by COVID-19 ...

This report describes COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations by vaccination status and previous COVID-19 diagnosis before and after the Delta variant became predominant.

www.cdc.gov

 

[Bob B]

Wrong.

I find it amazing that people will happily condemn the truckers and say they are preventing trade and others from being able to work when government is continuing to prevent individuals from working based on the narrative that vaccine is the only solution.

These are the facts:

• Vaccine is slightly less effective than natural infection in reducing the severity of symptoms or hospitalization.
• Vaccine administered to an individual that has had an infection does not reduce symptoms or hospitalization.
• Many people were infected before vaccine was available and insisting those people be vaccinated is counter to the science.
• Mandating Vaccine be the only recognized acceptable preventative solution for future hospitalization is pollitical, not science.

COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations by COVID-19 ...

This report describes COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations by vaccination status and previous COVID-19 diagnosis before and after the Delta variant became predominant.

www.cdc.gov

View attachment 83378

Shale is the only one of these guys that is willing to look any kind of evidence .... The others just want to go around spouting abusive language while remaining uninformed.
Johnson has a major protest in progress in his back yard and seems to have no real interest in what is actually going on.
Mr Kipp is even worse than the ones still participating .... He was informed but chose muddy up the information as much as possible in an attempt to make it impossible to know the truth. He has stopped posting but still cheers on the others any time they spout some ridiculous or abusive comment.

They seem to think they have some sort of superior IQ .... which couldn't be further from the truth .... It is , however, necessary for them to think that in order to justify their ridiculous comments and overall position.
Those 'other' people must be really stupid because they don't agree with me ...LOL

I doubt there are too many left watching this tread that will benefit from the actual data you posted.

Glad to see you back posting some real information anyway.

The one thing I would say about the chart is that all that has changed significantly with the predominance of the Omicron variant.
The director of the largest Israeli hospital treating Covid patients say he can no longer see any difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated for hospitalizations or severity.
The doctor groups who are closely analyzing the data also say the US hospitalization data can no longer be trusted since it is so different than the rest of the worlds data.

 

[Bob B]

Thank you Bob! I had looked into that and it might be cherry picking based on a mistranslation but I haven't found any trustworthy sources. I've seen plenty of information saying the opposite but I will reserve judgement till I hear back from an acquaintance that speaks that language fluently. Appreciate the link!

I'd be interested in seeing other sources of data you have on this .... just be aware that I am suspicious that US hospitalization numbers may not be very accurate. That's why I started looking for other places around the world that seemed to be good sources of info.

 

[noenegdod]

Johnson has a major protest in progress in his back yard and seems to have no real interest in what is actually going on.

I feel for Johnson. I support the protest but hate the fact that they honked for over a week 24/7. That was wrong IMO. Id probably be in jail if someone was doing that in my backyard.

Glad to see you back posting some real information anyway.

Rare appearance

The one thing I would say about the chart is that all that has changed significantly with the predominance of the Omicron variant.
The director of the largest Israeli hospital treating Covid patients say he can no longer see any difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated for hospitalizations or severity.
The doctor groups who are closely analyzing the data also say the US hospitalization data can no longer be trusted since it is so different than the rest of the worlds data.

Vaccinated vs unvaccinated never should have been the groups being compared. The lowest resolution should have been vaccinated/previously infected vs unvaccinated. Ignoring natural infection was flat out stupid and is probably why dick heads like Dhasper AKA ?????? has muted himself. Mainstream everything is starting to acknowledge what us conspiracy theorists with a basic understanding of biology and good sense have been saying and they are about to look pretty stupid on the topic of Covid. That is why I quit posting. I knew it would just take time for the actual science deniers to be forced to pull their heads out of the sand and be unable to ignore the actual reality

 

[Johnson]

Vaccine is slightly less effective than natural infection in reducing the severity of symptoms or hospitalization.

One of the the side effects of infection is death

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

 

[Cdkipp]

Wrong.

I find it amazing that people will happily condemn the truckers and say they are preventing trade and others from being able to work when government is continuing to prevent individuals from working based on the narrative that vaccine is the only solution.

These are the facts:

• Vaccine is slightly less effective than natural infection in reducing the severity of symptoms or hospitalization.
• Vaccine administered to an individual that has had an infection does not reduce symptoms or hospitalization.
• Many people were infected before vaccine was available and insisting those people be vaccinated is counter to the science.
• Mandating Vaccine be the only recognized acceptable preventative solution for future hospitalization is pollitical, not science.

COVID-19 Cases and Hospitalizations by COVID-19 ...

This report describes COVID-19 cases and hospitalizations by vaccination status and previous COVID-19 diagnosis before and after the Delta variant became predominant.

www.cdc.gov

View attachment 83378

Interesting chart. I have seen some contradictions of this but let's assume it is true. I think it is mostly true. I am interested to see how this holds up with the immunity given by an Omicron infection (especially because Pfizer did not see a good immune response with their trial of an Omicron-based vaccine).

The other thing that I have not seen addressed is that we see hospitalization and death charts which show very very dramatic differences between vaccinated, vaccinated plus boost, and unvaccinated. When I look at these I think they must understate the effectiveness of the vaccines since the unvaccinated population includes many of the previously infected. Consequently, if the chart above is accurate the actual risk for the unvaccinated is extremely high.

 

[Cdkipp]

I feel for Johnson. I support the protest but hate the fact that they honked for over a week 24/7. That was wrong IMO. Id probably be in jail if someone was doing that in my backyard.



Rare appearance

Vaccinated vs unvaccinated never should have been the groups being compared. The lowest resolution should have been vaccinated/previously infected vs unvaccinated. Ignoring natural infection was flat out stupid and is probably why dick heads like Dhasper AKA ?????? has muted himself. Mainstream everything is starting to acknowledge what us conspiracy theorists with a basic understanding of biology and good sense have been saying and they are about to look pretty stupid on the topic of Covid. That is why I quit posting. I knew it would just take time for the actual science deniers to be forced to pull their heads out of the sand and be unable to ignore the actual reality

No, I think they should chart it and do comparisons. It is more difficult to track and the US sucks at tracking anyway. In the charts, you posted they used "confirmed diagnoses" which makes sense.

 

[Cdkipp]

The one thing I would say about the chart is that all that has changed significantly with the predominance of the Omicron variant.
The director of the largest Israeli hospital treating Covid patients say he can no longer see any difference between the vaccinated and the unvaccinated for hospitalizations or severity.
The doctor groups who are closely analyzing the data also say the US hospitalization data can no longer be trusted since it is so different than the rest of the worlds data.

This contradicts Israel's data. Source????

 

[noenegdod]

One of the the side effects of infection is death

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Get your head out of your ass. When did covid start spreading? When was a vaccine available? There was ~ a year worth of infection in individuals that were then expected to get vaccinated, pointlessly, to no benefit. Everyone now is bumping into Omicron on a regular basis and is constantly getting "boosted". I do not agree with vaccine mandates but if we are going to mandate anything, it should be mandated immunity, regardless of how it is acquired.

 

[Bob B]

I feel for Johnson. I support the protest but hate the fact that they honked for over a week 24/7. That was wrong IMO. Id probably be in jail if someone was doing that in my backyard.

Yeah ... That would get old .... If they were in my back yard, I would be using ear plugs and white noise at night ...... but at least they aren't trying to burn down buildings with people in them like other varieties of protestors.

I don't know if the protests are helping Canada yet .... but politicians in the US are waking up and starting to pull the mandates .... they don't want this to come to their back yard.
The truckers in the US are starting to organize a cross country convoy ... problem is there just aren't too many independent truckers left who own their own truck. Most drive for a company.

 

[Johnson]

I feel for Johnson. I support the protest but hate the fact that they honked for over a week 24/7. That was wrong IMO. Id probably be in jail if someone was doing that in my backyard.

I have no influence over the protestors, they are just a bunch of dicks. screaming "freedom". I want freedom as well, I just crossed the border and not only did I need to be vaccinated, I needed a PCR test as well, it is a pain to jump through all the hoops but in the US we see as many people die every day from covid as on 9/11 and thanks to that I have to be in the airport at least an hour earlier to go through security. I understand this desire to keep people safe and I follow the rules set by governments, assuming they are done with the best intentions. (Regardless if it is the extra security or vaccine requirements)

We can't relax until hospitals can adequately cope with those who are infected and seek medical attention. But with the fast majority of the people now vaccinated there is light at the end of the tunnel.

Vaccinated vs unvaccinated never should have been the groups being compared.

Why not, how can you possibly test the effectiveness of a vaccine unless you compare the two?

The lowest resolution should have been vaccinated/previously infected vs unvaccinated. Ignoring natural infection was flat out stupid

It isn't being ignored.

and is probably why dick heads like Dhasper AKA ?????? has muted himself.

I think he has given up on the conspiracy theorist after Bob showed that facts (like Trump leaving office with a higher unemployment numbers that when he took office) are dismissed.

Mainstream everything is starting to acknowledge what us conspiracy theorists with a basic understanding of biology and good sense have been saying and they are about to look pretty stupid on the topic of Covid.

Mainstream news is written by reporters who have little or no training in pandemics. Just follow the CDC if you are in the US, or health Canada if you are in Canada. Their messaging is less sensationalist.

That is why I quit posting. I knew it would just take time for the actual science deniers to be forced to pull their heads out of the sand and be unable to ignore the actual reality

You are the one who claims that infection is better than vaccination, you are worried about the side effects of the vaccine, but ignore the side effects of the infection. You refuse to accept the main stream doctors when they tell you to get vaccinated, but said you will seek their help when you get severely sick from covid.

Try to look at your position from my vantage point, you really do not make sense.

 

[Johnson]

Get your head out of your ass. When did covid start spreading? When was a vaccine available?

United States COVID - Coronavirus Statistics - Worldometer

United States Coronavirus update with statistics and graphs: total and new cases, deaths per day, mortality and recovery rates, current active cases, recoveries, trends and timeline.

www.worldometers.info

There was ~ a year worth of infection in individuals that were then expected to get vaccinated, pointlessly, to no benefit. Everyone now is bumping into Omicron on a regular basis and is constantly getting "boosted".

Unfortunately that is the nature of the beast.

I do not agree with vaccine mandates but if we are going to mandate anything, it should be mandated immunity, regardless of how it is acquired.

Sounds fine by me, just don't go crying for medical help when the side effects of you insisting on only getting natural immunity.

Things can get back to some form of normal when hospitals can cope. That might require training more doctors and nurses.

 

[Johnson]

Yeah ... That would get old .... If they were in my back yard, I would be using ear plugs and white noise at night ...... but at least they aren't trying to burn down buildings with people in them like other varieties of protestors.

Most people here simply ignored the protesters last weekend and went about their business.

I don't know if the protests are helping Canada yet

Blocking trade is not helping Canada. Unions oppose the protest.

Joint statement from Canada’s unions on the Ottawa occupation | Canadian Labour Congress

Canada’s unions have fought for generations for the right to protest. This is a cornerstone of our democratic system. But what we have witnessed on the streets of Canada’s capital over the past thirteen days is something different altogether. This is not a protest, it is an occupation by an...

canadianlabour.ca

but politicians in the US are waking up and starting to pull the mandates .... they don't want this to come to their back yard.
The truckers in the US are starting to organize a cross country convoy ... problem is there just aren't too many independent truckers left who own their own truck. Most drive for a company.

"Premier Doug Ford (conservative) intends to get tough with the protesters, one source said. In addition to hefty fines and the possible confiscation of vehicles, the sources said the province is also looking at its options for suspending commercial licences."

Ontario prepares fines, possible seizure of trucks to end Ambassador Bridge blockade, sources say

Ford crackdown would mark first significant move by a government to end border protests

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[noenegdod]

@Johnson Still a devout member of the Ostrich brigade I see. You refuse to actually comprehend what I said and instead build a strawman so you can feel like a hero kicking its ass.

Still a waste of time

Try to look at your position from my vantage point, you really do not make sense.

The inside of your ass isnt a vantage I want.

Peace.

 

[Johnson]

@Johnson Still a devout member of the Ostrich brigade I see. You refuse to actually comprehend what I said and instead build a strawman so you can feel like a hero kicking its ass.

You said you would seek medical help in hospital if you were infected by covid and needed it.

Still a waste of time.

Sure, but it doesn't stop you wasting your time trying to persuade people to get infected instead of vaccinated.

The inside of your ass isnt a vantage I want.

I am glad to hear that.

Peace.

Ditto.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Your take...

These are the facts:

• Vaccine is slightly less effective than natural infection in reducing the severity of symptoms or hospitalization.
• Vaccine administered to an individual that has had an infection does not reduce symptoms or hospitalization.
• Many people were infected before vaccine was available and insisting those people be vaccinated is counter to the science.
• Mandating Vaccine be the only recognized acceptable preventative solution for future hospitalization is pollitical, not science.

My take same study...
Vaccination protected against COVID-19 and related hospitalization, and surviving a previous infection protected against a reinfection and related hospitalization during periods of predominantly Alpha and Delta variant transmission, before the emergence of Omicron; evidence suggests decreased protection from both vaccine- and infection-induced immunity against Omicron infections, although additional protection with widespread receipt of booster COVID-19 vaccine doses is expected. Initial infection among unvaccinated persons increases risk for serious illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death; by November 30, 2021, approximately 130,781 residents of California and New York had died from COVID-19. Thus, vaccination remains the safest and primary strategy to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infections, associated complications, and onward transmission. Primary COVID-19 vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended by CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to ensure that all eligible persons are up to date with COVID-19 vaccination, which provides the most robust protection against initial infection, severe illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death.***** Additional recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted in the future as the virus and immunity levels change.

 

[Cdkipp]

Your take...

My take same study...
Vaccination protected against COVID-19 and related hospitalization, and surviving a previous infection protected against a reinfection and related hospitalization during periods of predominantly Alpha and Delta variant transmission, before the emergence of Omicron; evidence suggests decreased protection from both vaccine- and infection-induced immunity against Omicron infections, although additional protection with widespread receipt of booster COVID-19 vaccine doses is expected. Initial infection among unvaccinated persons increases risk for serious illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death; by November 30, 2021, approximately 130,781 residents of California and New York had died from COVID-19. Thus, vaccination remains the safest and primary strategy to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infections, associated complications, and onward transmission. Primary COVID-19 vaccination, additional doses, and booster doses are recommended by CDC’s Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices to ensure that all eligible persons are up to date with COVID-19 vaccination, which provides the most robust protection against initial infection, severe illness, hospitalization, long-term sequelae, and death.***** Additional recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted in the future as the virus and immunity levels change.

Exactly.

 

[Cdkipp]

This contradicts Israel's data. Source????

Clearly, Bob Has no source. Back to blocking him.

 

[Bob B]

Dr. Peter McCullough, One of the Most Important Voices in America on COVID-19

Doug talks to Dr. Peter McCullough, cardiologist and internist (Machine Generated) Doug Truax: Welcome to the First Right podcast, a weekly conservative news show brought to you by Restoration PAC. I'

rumble.com

 

[Shale MacGregor]

I'd be interested in seeing other sources of data you have on this .... just be aware that I am suspicious that US hospitalization numbers may not be very accurate. That's why I started looking for other places around the world that seemed to be good sources of info.

This one is a larger study of the numbers from South Africa

Characteristics and Outcomes of Hospitalized Patients in South Africa During the COVID-19 Omicron Wave

This study describes the characteristics and clinical outcomes of patients hospitalized in South Africa during the Omicron wave compared with the same variables from earlier COVID-19 waves.

jamanetwork.com

just for perspective, with 50% vaccination rate making it a coinflip, it would imply 2.-3x as likely to be hospitalized without vaccine.

This isn't to say that the Vaccine is anywhere near as effective against protecting from hospitilization as it was against Delta. Here is an excerpt referring to another study

 

[Shale MacGregor]

I feel for Johnson. I support the protest but hate the fact that they honked for over a week 24/7. That was wrong IMO. Id probably be in jail if someone was doing that in my backyard.



Rare appearance

Vaccinated vs unvaccinated never should have been the groups being compared. The lowest resolution should have been vaccinated/previously infected vs unvaccinated. Ignoring natural infection was flat out stupid and is probably why dick heads like Dhasper AKA ?????? has muted himself. Mainstream everything is starting to acknowledge what us conspiracy theorists with a basic understanding of biology and good sense have been saying and they are about to look pretty stupid on the topic of Covid. That is why I quit posting. I knew it would just take time for the actual science deniers to be forced to pull their heads out of the sand and be unable to ignore the actual reality

I have never had a problem immunity from getting covid being equal to or better than vaccination. What I doubted or wanted to see, was any proof of sustained or increased immunity which could be gained by vaccination schedules, boosters, etc. Additionally I wondered if there was little to no actual vaccine damage being done, what the overall efficacy of a combined approach would be.

It is easy to follow general guidelines based on previous science but it is also good to have good (trustworthy) data to elucidate the differences between viruses rather than simply relying on extrapolating generalities.