Dr Strangetroll : or how I learned to stop arguing and be amused by the intransigence

[Shale MacGregor]

This contradicts Israel's data. Source????

I don't think this is the largest hospital but Giris has been quoted on this. https://www.israelnationalnews.com/news/321674 I think it is a mixture of the comorbidities and reduction in virulence that he was referring to but I still haven't heard back on the translation. Overall Israel has been the leader for early and extra doses and I think most of what I have read has said yes to increased antibodies but no to reduction in infection rate, but yes to reduced hospitalizations. I suck at saving my sources on things that I think are matching the general consensus so it makes it hard for me to reference things sometimes.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

In about 2 weeks I will be 4 months out from the 3rd shot of Moderna. The CDC is saying now that by the 4th month post 3rd shot, protection drops to 78%. I'm in a high risk group for a couple of reasons and will be paying close attention to recommendations for a 4th shot. I have real life experience with blood clots and had an IVC filter installed back in '08 as a constant reminder. I know first hand what it feels like to nearly suffocate to death when 70% of your lung capacity is diminished from clots and the damage they can do to your extremities. So for me, just the prospect of blood clots and heart damage are enough to convince me I'd rather take my chances with the vaccine than a direct hit from covid which even though it provides survivors with natural immunity, it can come with some very nasty life long side affects. For those of you that want make it their last stand for freedom...via con Dios, Baby!

 

[Shale MacGregor]

In about 2 weeks I will be 4 months out from the 3rd shot of Moderna. The CDC is saying now that by the 4th month post 3rd shot, protection drops to 78%. I'm in a high risk group for a couple of reasons and will be paying close attention to recommendations for a 4th shot. I have real life experience with blood clots and had an IVC filter installed back in '08 as a constant reminder. I know first hand what it feels like to nearly suffocate to death when 70% of your lung capacity is diminished from clots and the damage they can do to your extremities. So for me, just the prospect of blood clots and heart damage are enough to convince me I'd rather take my chances with the vaccine than a direct hit from covid which even though it provides survivors with natural immunity, it can come with some very nasty life long side affects. For those of you that want make it their last stand for freedom...via con Dios, Baby!

I think I probably saw the same study that CDC is referencing and it always confuses me when they talk about percentages.

Waning 2-Dose and 3-Dose Effectiveness of mRNA Vaccines ...

This report describes how vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19–associated emergency department/urgent care visits and hospitalizations was higher after the third dose but decreased with time.

www.cdc.gov

I am assuming this is related to vaccinated vs unvaccinated but it can be hard to read sometimes.

I think you will find that Bob doesn't (or didnt in the past) advocate against vaccination for those in risk groups, just for those with little to no risk being mandated to be vaccinated (children, healthy young, etc)

It is funny how vaya con Dios can be considered a blessing or an insult lol.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

@Shale MacGregor yup and folks can take it how they want. I've sure seen a butt-load of covid cases turn ugly for those folks that didn't think they were high risk. I especially enjoy the ones that say "hold my beer" as they laugh in the face of covid and end up on a ventilator a week later. Shesh

 

[Cdkipp]

UK. during Omicron The risk of being admitted to a hospital for Omicron cases was 65 percent lower for those who had received two doses of a vaccine, compared with those who had not received any vaccination.

The rate of hospitalization was even lower among those who had received three doses of vaccine, according to the report, which was issued by the U.K. Health Security Agency. People who had received booster doses were 81 percent less likely to be admitted to the hospital, compared with unvaccinated people, according to the agency. https://assets.publishing.service.g...efing-31-Dec-2021-Omicron_severity_update.pdf

 

[Bob B]

This one is a larger study of the numbers from South Africa

Characteristics and Outcomes of Hospitalized Patients in South Africa During the COVID-19 Omicron Wave

This study describes the characteristics and clinical outcomes of patients hospitalized in South Africa during the Omicron wave compared with the same variables from earlier COVID-19 waves.

jamanetwork.com

View attachment 83467 just for perspective, with 50% vaccination rate making it a coinflip, it would imply 2.-3x as likely to be hospitalized without vaccine.

This isn't to say that the Vaccine is anywhere near as effective against protecting from hospitilization as it was against Delta. Here is an excerpt referring to another study

View attachment 83468

It is really odd how much the results vary from country to country with Omicron.

For a long time, South Africa was reporting almost no deaths from Omicron .... while in Israel, they have been hammered very hard by Omicron.
In South Africa, only a little over 40% have any vaccination while in Israel, the country is about 90% vaccinated and most of the high risk have 2 boosters as well.

Maybe the difference is early treatment? I know that in South Africa there has been a much bigger emphasis on early treatment.
In Israel, they have been focused on vaccines.

I was watching my local health department numbers for a long time to kinda keep my finger on the pulse of how things are going around here .... When the Omicron case numbers shot up, they quit reporting hospitalization and death numbers as they had before .... Now that the case numbers are back down again .... they still aren't reporting hospitalizations and deaths .... I'm going to have to dig and try to find those numbers from a different source.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

It is really odd how much the results vary from country to country with Omicron.

For a long time, South Africa was reporting almost no deaths from Omicron .... while in Israel, they have been hammered very hard by Omicron.
In South Africa, only a little over 40% have any vaccination while in Israel, the country is about 90% vaccinated and most of the high risk have 2 boosters as well.

Maybe the difference is early treatment? I know that in South Africa there has been a much bigger emphasis on early treatment.
In Israel, they have been focused on vaccines.

I was watching my local health department numbers for a long time to kinda keep my finger on the pulse of how things are going around here .... When the Omicron case numbers shot up, they quit reporting hospitalization and death numbers as they had before .... Now that the case numbers are back down again .... they still aren't reporting hospitalizations and deaths .... I'm going to have to dig and try to find those numbers from a different source.

Results vary for county to county where I live and my county has fluctuated between 2.5 and 3% mortality rate while nationally it's holding at 2%. My county is one of the least vaccinated counties in the state and continues to post high numbers per capita. With only 37% of the population vaccinated that are eligible to be vaccinated, it's no wonder our mortality rate is so high by comparison. Even when you take only the folks over 65 years old where I am only 54% are vaccinated. Politics are killing people here...breakthrough cases just don't seem to end in death?

 

[Bob B]

Results vary for county to county where I live and my county has fluctuated between 2.5 and 3% mortality rate while nationally it's holding at 2%. My county is one of the least vaccinated counties in the state and continues to post high numbers per capita. With only 37% of the population vaccinated that are eligible to be vaccinated, it's no wonder our mortality rate is so high by comparison. Even when you take only the folks over 65 years old where I am only 54% are vaccinated. Politics are killing people here...breakthrough cases just don't seem to end in death?

If you have looked at the history of my posts .... I have posted a LOT of information about the success of various doctors around the world using a variety of early treatment protocols. These doctors are VERY effectively TREATING Covid .... especially when early treatments are used. There are doctors in South Africa, Honduras, United States, and Uttar Pradesh India who have phenomenal success with treatment protocols ... there are a number of protocols that work.

It just seems crazy for me that in the US ... and UK ... and Israel, people are instructed by the health agencies .... that if they get Covid just isolate and wait til they are so sick they need to be hospitalized.

When the ONLY strategy is vaccines .... the result is totally dependent on the vaccine. If you have a low vaccination rate ... and no early treatment being offered ... the result will be poor. The vaccines are less and less effective with each variant.

I'm not saying vaccines are bad .... well, except in the case of children .... I'm saying it is ridiculous that early treatment is not a major part of the strategy.

 

[Batvette]

Says the white guy who isn't subject to racism?? Of all the demographic categories, the white male is always the most likely to advocate for ignoring or denying the injustices affecting other races. It really is as simple as that.. Everything else is just horse crap.


Umm.. I don't care what subject we're discussing, that's never going to happen. We're a country that elected Donald Trump remember?


Ya, well... If we didn't want the consequences, maybe we shouldn't have enslaved them for two hundred years, then fought a war to keep them enslaved, then created groups to hang them from tree's when we lost the war.. and then used our government to create red line districts right up until the 1970's to keep them oppressed..

And when all that was made illegal, the white men resorted to less obvious ways of oppression like the police...

Did you know they did a study on cops and drivers with respect to racism? During the day hours, blacks are far more likely to be pulled over by a cop, but at night time, when the cops can't see the color of the driver's skin, the rate of traffic stops between black and white is equal..
Here you go.. Read, and tell me all about how racism is just an excuse...

Police stop fewer black drivers at night when a 'veil of darkness' obscures their race

After analyzing 95 million traffic stop records, filed by officers with 21 state patrol agencies and 35 municipal police forces from 2011 to 2018, researchers concluded that 'police stops and search decisions suffer from persistent racial bias.'

www.sciencedaily.com

Flawed study, obviously they merely wanted the results to match a predetermined outcome.
Nothing about that proves that the reason was because police couldnt see what race they were, and thats dumb anyway because plenty of night time stops happen where police can see the driver. Just manipulating stats to forward an agenda.
However if cops ARE pulling blacks over at a higher rate that should be no surprise. According to DOJ statistics blacks commit violent crimes at 8x the rate of whites. Property crimes similar disparities.
If blacks dont want to make contact with the police perhaps many of them shouldnt be committing crimes..

 

[Bob B]

Children in Las Vegas rejoice as the teacher announces mask mandates are to be lifted

This isn't a win, this should never have happened, and their reaction shows how much they hated it, bless their hearts.

rumble.com

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

If you have looked at the history of my posts ....

I really should have and then followed my instinct. Easily remedied though.

 

[Johnson]

If you have looked at the history of my posts .... I have posted a LOT of information about the success of various doctors around the world using a variety of early treatment protocols. These doctors are VERY effectively TREATING Covid .... especially when early treatments are used. There are doctors in South Africa, Honduras, United States, and Uttar Pradesh India who have phenomenal success with treatment protocols ... there are a number of protocols that work.

That is not how things work, people try things out, believe they have success, but then you do the trials, which take time.

The complaint from the anti vaxxers was that the vaccines were rushed through and not tested rigorously enough, but at the same time they advocate for treatments that have not been tested and those that have, do not show promises. I keep telling you, I WANT the early treatments to work, there is as much evidence for them working as there is for drinking bleach.

It just seems crazy for me that in the US ... and UK ... and Israel, people are instructed by the health agencies .... that if they get Covid just isolate and wait til they are so sick they need to be hospitalized.

Why is that crazy? the fast majority will be fine, even more so when they have been vaccinated. You stay home so that you do not infect others.

When the ONLY strategy is vaccines.

No, the strategy, in addition to the vaccines was to wear mask when in public, do not gather with people outside of your household indoors unless you absolutely have to, work on the vaccines to include new variants and develop medication.

the result is totally dependent on the vaccine.

Only in lala land, not in the real world.

If you have a low vaccination rate ... and no early treatment being offered ... the result will be poor.

There is no effective early treatment, just becaise people claim drinking urine is effective, that does not make it so.

The vaccines are less and less effective with each variant.

So you add vaccines for the new variants.

I'm not saying vaccines are bad

Glad to hear that, now go and tell people you care about to get vaccinated.

well, except in the case of children

You are wrong again.

I'm saying it is ridiculous that early treatment is not a major part of the strategy.

It isn't ridiculous when they are not shown to be effective. It would be a waste of money. Now when those treatments come out, I am sure my doctor will perscribe them if (s)he deams them necessary.

You have shown to live in a different reality from the real world. To date you still have not acknowledged that Trump left office with higher unemployment then when he entered office. Try to take some baby steps, consider if it is possible that you are wrong?

 

[Bob B]

That is not how things work, people try things out, believe they have success, but then you do the trials, which take time.

The complaint from the anti vaxxers was that the vaccines were rushed through and not tested rigorously enough, but at the same time they advocate for treatments that have not been tested and those that have, do not show promises. I keep telling you, I WANT the early treatments to work, there is as much evidence for them working as there is for drinking bleach.


Why is that crazy? the fast majority will be fine, even more so when they have been vaccinated. You stay home so that you do not infect others.


No, the strategy, in addition to the vaccines was to wear mask when in public, do not gather with people outside of your household indoors unless you absolutely have to, work on the vaccines to include new variants and develop medication.


Only in lala land, not in the real world.



There is no effective early treatment, just becaise people claim drinking urine is effective, that does not make it so.


So you add vaccines for the new variants.


Glad to hear that, now go and tell people you care about to get vaccinated.


You are wrong again.


It isn't ridiculous when they are not shown to be effective. It would be a waste of money. Now when those treatments come out, I am sure my doctor will perscribe them if (s)he deams them necessary.

You have shown to live in a different reality from the real world. To date you still have not acknowledged that Trump left office with higher unemployment then when he entered office. Try to take some baby steps, consider if it is possible that you are wrong?

I think maybe you had too many Saturday night beverages .... Most of your post aren't worth a response ... this one is a new low even for you.
I can't think of a single post where you have provided anything useful.
Don't mistake my future failure to answer your posts to mean anything except not worth my time to respond.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

I would not liken this to the flu. Can you imagine if it kept most of its traits and just became seasonal? There are long-term features of COVID that would not be enjoyable. How long until half of the world has permanently lost its sense of smell?

Seen it in a dream last night...
Idiocracy will surely come to pass. @Bob B will be president for life.

I suspect that long before we realize that the meat is spoiled, half the world's population will have developed debilitating and permanent heart damage and average intelligence will have to be recalculated downward. That seems to be a thing with Omicron too. I know 3 electricians now in their early 50s, who until they met Delta Dawn 6 months ago, were strapping construction workers that didn't fade when put on a 4" rigid conduit job or big wire pull. She took all that away from them in just 1 day at happy hour after work, at a time in their careers when they needed to really be bearing down on their pension plans. Oh well... Now they are spending half their time and their future pension at drs. appointments. Now someone else's taxes will likely have to help support them and the extra millions of anti-vaxers about to file for disability. One of them also lost his 2 year old grandson a month ago to Omicron. He's not sure he's not the one who passed it to his grandson. That must have just been sickly baby anyway? Too bad, he could've been a taxpayer helping to take care of grandpa someday.

Just since you started this thread another +-200,000 (and not all elderly,) Americans have died from Omicron and the losses continue to mount at north of 2000 avg. a day. That's a fifth of the total deaths since this began in early 2020, so Omicron isn't nothing. By Spring the death toll could hit 1,000,000 dead Americans.
This morning's U.S. count...

Coronavirus Cases:​

79,293,924

Deaths:​

942,944

But don't look up.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Seen it in a dream last night...
Idiocracy will surely come to pass. @Bob B will be president for life.

He will come down from Lookout Mountain, Ga. wrapped in the flag and carrying a bible...dripping with healing holy oil and endorsed by his U.S. Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene. Hallelujah!! https://slate.com/human-interest/20...ton is in the far,a statue of Confederate Gen.

 

[Johnson]

I think maybe you had too many Saturday night beverages .... Most of your post aren't worth a response ... this one is a new low even for you.
I can't think of a single post where you have provided anything useful.
Don't mistake my future failure to answer your posts to mean anything except not worth my time to respond.

I corrected you on your fantasy that Trump massively reduced unemployment using many different sources, which you still refuse to acknowledge. It show you are the one believing in and repeating falsehoods. In other words, you can not be trusted to recognize facts when they are right in front of you. No normal person would ever be able to trust you when you continue to make assertions that are debunked.

 

[Johnson]

Children in Las Vegas rejoice as the teacher announces mask mandates are to be lifted

This isn't a win, this should never have happened, and their reaction shows how much they hated it, bless their hearts.

rumble.com

I would be happy too when I no longer have to wear a mask, I really do not want to risk infecting others, even when they are too stupid to get vaccinated.

 

[Cdkipp]

That is not how things work, people try things out, believe they have success, but then you do the trials, which take time.

The complaint from the anti vaxxers was that the vaccines were rushed through and not tested rigorously enough, but at the same time they advocate for treatments that have not been tested and those that have, do not show promises. I keep telling you, I WANT the early treatments to work, there is as much evidence for them working as there is for drinking bleach.


Why is that crazy? the fast majority will be fine, even more so when they have been vaccinated. You stay home so that you do not infect others.


No, the strategy, in addition to the vaccines was to wear mask when in public, do not gather with people outside of your household indoors unless you absolutely have to, work on the vaccines to include new variants and develop medication.


Only in lala land, not in the real world.



There is no effective early treatment, just becaise people claim drinking urine is effective, that does not make it so.


So you add vaccines for the new variants.


Glad to hear that, now go and tell people you care about to get vaccinated.


You are wrong again.


It isn't ridiculous when they are not shown to be effective. It would be a waste of money. Now when those treatments come out, I am sure my doctor will perscribe them if (s)he deams them necessary.

You have shown to live in a different reality from the real world. To date you still have not acknowledged that Trump left office with higher unemployment then when he entered office. Try to take some baby steps, consider if it is possible that you are wrong?

Bob is continuously upset and angry there is no good treatment. The vaccine was a once-in-a-lifetime scientific miracle and Covid is a once in a several century pandemic. Treatments don't just fall off the shelf. It takes years to develop treatments for viruses-even now we have made modest progress with the flu, we still have no vaccine for HIV, and the HIV treatments were a long time in coming.

People suffering, and dying, without a good remedy has always been the most fertile grounds for snake oil salesmen in medicine. You see it in every major disease that people offer a remedy, they offer hope when science tells us hope doesn't exist. That is the reality and there are many humans that just cannot tolerate reality on a long-term basis so they adopt myth

Bob transfers his anger against a virus to the medical establishment. He adopts conspiracy theories. He becomes furious the medical system will not allow him to take unproven drugs. He thinks all of the established procedures should be modified to accept opinions from youtube videos.

 

[grizzzman]

Bob is continuously upset and angry there is no good treatment. The vaccine was a once-in-a-lifetime scientific miracle and Covid is a once in a several century pandemic. Treatments don't just fall off the shelf. It takes years to develop treatments for viruses-even now we have made modest progress with the flu, we still have no vaccine for HIV, and the HIV treatments were a long time in coming.

People suffering, and dying, without a good remedy has always been the most fertile grounds for snake oil salesmen in medicine. You see it in every major disease that people offer a remedy, they offer hope when science tells us hope doesn't exist. That is the reality and there are many humans that just cannot tolerate reality on a long-term basis so they adopt myth

Bob transfers his anger against a virus to the medical establishment. He adopts conspiracy theories. He becomes furious the medical system will not allow him to take unproven drugs. He thinks all of the established procedures should be modified to accept opinions from youtube videos.

Na He is just disappointed at the "closed minded" follow the science people trying to "Cancel Culture" him......

 

[Batvette]

Seen it in a dream last night...
Idiocracy will surely come to pass. @Bob B will be president for life.

I suspect that long before we realize that the meat is spoiled, half the world's population will have developed debilitating and permanent heart damage and average intelligence will have to be recalculated downward. That seems to be a thing with Omicron too. I know 3 electricians now in their early 50s, who until they met Delta Dawn 6 months ago, were strapping construction workers that didn't fade when put on a 4" rigid conduit job or big wire pull. She took all that away from them in just 1 day at happy hour after work, at a time in their careers when they needed to really be bearing down on their pension plans. Oh well... Now they are spending half their time and their future pension at drs. appointments. Now someone else's taxes will likely have to help support them and the extra millions of anti-vaxers about to file for disability. One of them also lost his 2 year old grandson a month ago to Omicron. He's not sure he's not the one who passed it to his grandson. That must have just been sickly baby anyway? Too bad, he could've been a taxpayer helping to take care of grandpa someday.

Just since you started this thread another +-200,000 (and not all elderly,) Americans have died from Omicron and the losses continue to mount at north of 2000 avg. a day. That's a fifth of the total deaths since this began in early 2020, so Omicron isn't nothing. By Spring the death toll could hit 1,000,000 dead Americans.
This morning's U.S. count...

Coronavirus Cases:​

79,293,924

Deaths:​

942,944

But don't look up.

Omicron has a 91% lower chance of death than delta variant of COVID-19: study

A new California study says the omicron variant of COVID-19 is an eye-popping 91% less likely to kill those who get infected than the delta strain, federal public health officials announced Wednesd…

www.nydailynews.com

Omicron has a 91% lower death rate than delta.

 

[Batvette]

I corrected you on your fantasy that Trump massively reduced unemployment using many different sources, which you still refuse to acknowledge. It show you are the one believing in and repeating falsehoods. In other words, you can not be trusted to recognize facts when they are right in front of you. No normal person would ever be able to trust you when you continue to make assertions that are debunked.

The fact is Trump was good for the economy and Biden has been a disaster. I dont need to see any cherry picked statistics to know that. Inflation has hit every American hard, and Biden triggered it with his silly anti petroleum green policies which arent going to do a thing for climate change because building the electric car infrastructure will do far more harm than the reduction in fossil fuel use.
Biden, Obama and HRC should all be in jail anyway for their Trump Russia collusion hoax.

Clinton campaign paid to 'infiltrate' Trump Tower, White House servers to link Trump to Russia, Durham finds

Lawyers for the Clinton campaign paid a technology company to "infiltrate" servers belonging to Trump Tower, and later the White House, in order to create fake information to bring to government agencies linking Donald Trump to Russia, a filing from Special Counsel John Durham says.

www.foxnews.com

This makes watergate look like jaywalking.

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Omicron has a 91% lower death rate than delta.

Good thing too, because they are still dropping like flies around here. Our tiny hospital has 5 on ventilators right now and 90 out of 500 staff out sick with covid. The shear numbers of the infected make the lower mortality rate almost un-noticeable. Something that is 100% more contagious and 91% less fatal still increases total death by 9%. That's why we've been seeing 3,000 deaths a day. I guess it doesn't matter that our hospital system is collapsing under the pressure of this virus... Oh wait...our mortality rate here has dropped from 3% all the way down to 2.8% since Omicron....yeah that's better. Shesh.

 

[Cdkipp]

Good thing too, because they are still dropping like flies around here. Our tiny hospital has 5 on ventilators right now and 90 out of 500 staff out sick with covid. The shear numbers of the infected make the lower mortality rate almost un-noticeable. Something that is 100% more contagious and 91% less fatal still increases total death by 9%. That's why we've been seeing 3,000 deaths a day. I guess it doesn't matter that our hospital system is collapsing under the pressure of this virus... Oh wait...our mortality rate here has dropped from 3% all the way down to 2.8% since Omicron....yeah that's better. Shesh.

Yep. https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20220209/omicron-death-rate-higher-than-during-delta-surge

 

[Cdkipp]

Good thing too, because they are still dropping like flies around here. Our tiny hospital has 5 on ventilators right now and 90 out of 500 staff out sick with covid. The shear numbers of the infected make the lower mortality rate almost un-noticeable. Something that is 100% more contagious and 91% less fatal still increases total death by 9%. That's why we've been seeing 3,000 deaths a day. I guess it doesn't matter that our hospital system is collapsing under the pressure of this virus... Oh wait...our mortality rate here has dropped from 3% all the way down to 2.8% since Omicron....yeah that's better. Shesh.

Also Batevette's original point was wrong also. (Shock) We had nine deaths per 1,000 cases during the Omicron surge, compared to 13 deaths per 1,000 cases during the Delta surge and 16 deaths per 1,000 cases during last winter’s deadly surge. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e4.htm?s_cid=mm7104e4_w

 

[Ozark Tinkering]

Also Batevette's original point was wrong also. (Shock) We had nine deaths per 1,000 cases during the Omicron surge, compared to 13 deaths per 1,000 cases during the Delta surge and 16 deaths per 1,000 cases during last winter’s deadly surge. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7104e4.htm?s_cid=mm7104e4_w

When it was Delta around here our little county was getting about 3-10 cases a day. When Omicron came to town our cases jumped to 20-50 a day. Knowing that 2.5% at minimum are going to die around here, Omicron has been worse by shear numbers. At some point not to far in the future those cases translate into those that recover and those that die. When I see 350 a week getting covid in my small county I know Burns Funeral home is gonna be doing a brisk business at the crematory. All this talk about how much less deadly Omicron is doesn't mean crap to me when I can look and see that the national mortality rate is holding steady at 2% and there hasn't been a day since people started dying here, that it has been that low.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/