EG4 6000XP instead of Victron? Thoughts Welcome.

[Madcodger]

the warranties ar mirroring the design life median, the 6000xp is an open air unit and the board will break down faster than the 18kpv, which is totally sealed

Very helpful, but a bit disappointing. There's just so much else to like about that 6000XP.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

Very helpful, but a bit disappointing. There's just so much else to like about that 6000XP.

there will always be a 5 year value Line, we want the 6000xp to be the best possible value experience after the tough lessons of the past few years in the voltronic dominated value space

 

[Q-Dog]

there will always be a 5 year value Line, we want the 6000xp to be the best possible value experience after the tough lessons of the past few years in the voltronic dominated value space

There isn't any "value" in replacing failed components every 5 years.

 

[SignatureSolarJames]

There isn't any "value" in replacing failed components every 5 years.

you pay less than half and get to buy the inverters available 5 years from now. also some people are like me when i started and are not made of money today

 

[Q-Dog]

you pay less than half and get to buy the inverters available 5 years from now. also some people are like me when i started and are not made of money today

Even more reason to buy better components up front. It's a false economy.

 

[Mattb4]

There isn't any "value" in replacing failed components every 5 years.

Sure there is. For instance my first AIO at $400 is still operating after a year and a half and it has taught me much about what is needed. If it fails in the next year or so it has easily been vary valuable to me. If I had bought a really expensive unit, but not what was ultimately wanted down the road, it would have a been a lot less value. Not to mention something you cant afford is of no value.

Balancing price and utility is a shifting target. The most expensive item or the cheapest item each have their plusses and minuses. I always go for the most bang for my buck. Reason I do a lot of DIY projects instead of hiring someone else.

 

[Madcodger]

Without wading into the value vs cost debate, I have to say that the features of the 6000XP are about as perfect as I've seen for an AIO. Would I pay a bit more (20%??) for better durability? Yeah, I would. Other than that, it's a dream unit, to me.

 

[NC_hydro]

Victron = Tier 1
EG4 = Tier 3

Pay once, cry once.
Will also suggest Sol Ark. Another Tier 1.

I wouldn't rank Sol Ark with Victron, I'd say tier 2. Eg4 is Tier no lol

 

[Q-Dog]

Sure there is. For instance my first AIO at $400 is still operating after a year and a half and it has taught me much about what is needed. If it fails in the next year or so it has easily been vary valuable to me. If I had bought a really expensive unit, but not what was ultimately wanted down the road, it would have a been a lot less value. Not to mention something you cant afford is of no value.

Balancing price and utility is a shifting target. The most expensive item or the cheapest item each have their plusses and minuses. I always go for the most bang for my buck. Reason I do a lot of DIY projects instead of hiring someone else.

If it fails? I've never thought about that ... not once.

My MultiPlus cost less than $1100 when new and now is a little over 4 years old. Using your own metrics, the MultiPlus is a better value as it was less $$$s per unit of time (1.5 years X 3 = 4.5 years). And the cost over time goes down the longer the unit is in service.

Buying cheap is a false economy.

 

[S Davis]

Forgot to mention it, but will definitely have an ERV. Big fan of them (no pun intended). ACH50 under 1.0 is the goal, and the closer we can get to 0.5, the better. We'll then CONTROL the rate of air exchange, and recover much of the heat/humidity rather than just pumping it outside. My biggest concern is actually the radiant floors not feeling warm enough. They'll heat the space easily, but that nice "warm toes" feeling happens only if the building is loosing enough heat for the floor to get to that point. It won't feel cold, but just room temperature. Tradeoffs...

You can run radiant floor surface temperatures about 87-90 degrees before they become uncomfortable on bare feet.
Usually you will over heat the space or have temperature fluctuations from charging your floors with hotter water than needed.

A properly designed radiant floor system uses the lowest possible water temperature depending on tubing and layout and type of heat emitter. Less stand by losses and more efficiency not heating water hotter than needed.

Thanks for the thread I am trying to decide on Victron or go another rout. I need 240v 50amp split phase with 24 volt batteries. If I do Victron it looks like I am stacking four Victron 24/3000/70-50 to get there.

 

[Zwy]

Without wading into the value vs cost debate, I have to say that the features of the 6000XP are about as perfect as I've seen for an AIO. Would I pay a bit more (20%??) for better durability? Yeah, I would. Other than that, it's a dream unit, to me.

I'd consider the Midnite when it is released. Solid company, good products. You gain 2Kw per leg so you probably wouldn't need to stack units.

The advantage of stacked 6000XP's is if you stay off grid, you can still have some power. Cheaper in price than the Midnite individually but if you went with 4 units the 6000XP will be slightly higher in price. 2 units you get by cheaper and can afford a spare.

There is some new stuff coming, this is starting to get to be a competitive market with technology moving along as the demand increases. A year from now you might be blown away by another product. I'm certainly not in any hurry to decide on an inverter/s for my shop. Meanwhile I'll get PV installed, add some extra PV to my house and building a battery bank for the shop.

 

[Mattb4]

If it fails? I've never thought about that ... not once.

My MultiPlus cost less than $1100 when new and now is a little over 4 years old. Using your own metrics, the MultiPlus is a better value as it was less $$$s per unit of time (1.5 years X 3 = 4.5 years). And the cost over time goes down the longer the unit is in service.

Buying cheap is a false economy.

Once again it is not. Your unit is not a stand alone unit. Therefor your $1100 is the not the total end price. You have to buy SCC, external monitors or use apps on a smart phone or programs on a computer. Your Multiplus is part of a Eco system to utilize.

Buying expensive is a false economy. Buy what works for you and what you can afford.

 

[Q-Dog]

Once again it is not. Your unit is not a stand alone unit. Therefor your $1100 is the not the total end price. You have to buy SCC, external monitors or use apps on a smart phone or programs on a computer. Your Multiplus is part of a Eco system to utilize.

Buying expensive is a false economy. Buy what works for you and what you can afford.

I didn't start out with solar, just built a battery backup. Literally, the only Victron gear I started with is the MultiPlus. Everything else I added later as I decided to add more capability. There is no reason to replace what I have and can keep adding to it as I decide to add more capability.

If I started this process today the Multi would be a little more expensive, but the 100/20 SCC I started with is only $89, 40% less. Raspberry Pi and cables for monitoring was under $100. MK3 USB for programming, $55.

Expensive is relative I guess. The Magnum and midnite and Aims gear I considered was more expensive than the MultiPlus.

 

[Mattb4]

I didn't start out with solar, just built a battery backup. Literally, the only Victron gear I started with is the MultiPlus. Everything else I added later as I decided to add more capability. There is no reason to replace what I have and can keep adding to it as I decide to add more capability.

If I started this process today the Multi would be a little more expensive, but the 100/20 SCC I started with is only $89, 40% less. Raspberry Pi and cables for monitoring was under $100. MK3 USB for programming, $55.

Expensive is relative I guess. The Magnum and midnite and Aims gear I considered was more expensive than the MultiPlus.

All of which is great that it worked for you. I am happy myself with how my cheap AIO has worked. Though I am presently deciding if I will keep it till fail or replace with something I would like better. If I had kicked out $1100+ I darn sure would not be considering an upgrade.

 

[solarenvy]

As a DIY'er, my expectation is to be revisiting my design, components, use cases, scale, etc. every so often. It aligns well with the 6000XP's 5yr warranty. I'm not going to fool myself into thinking I'm building a 10-20yr system. And I'm certainly not going to pay a premium for it. Even if the longevity is there, can you imagine what the tech is going to look like by then? My entry cost into this space ensures I can gradually update components to add new capabilities as I see fit.

That's not to say 5yrs is a set expiration date...my choice of equipment will very likely outlast my desire to upgrade.

 

[SilverbackMP]

Yeah, you won’t get that warm toes sensation without making your place into a large slow cooker.

Only places I have ever enjoyed them have been loosy goosey traditional Korean structures with ondol heat. Cool air and hot floor.

I actually don’t like them all that much (even though I have installed the tubing in my shop) - principally because my 90 lbs wife goes for the aforementioned slow cooker approach.

I’ve been thinking about building some sort of shelter where I could have both cold air and a hot floor. Maybe just a wood stove. Maybe in conjunction with a wood fire hot tub.

 

[ksmithaz1]

I don't think a 6000XP will die 5 years + 1 day after purchase. Warranties are great as long as I never have to use them.

I have a friend, parents in the carpet business. Put the best available carpet in their house. 10 years later there is nothing wrong with the carpet physically. Just dated as hell, they ripped it out, went with a lower grade carpet

The point is, we don't have history on these units yet, but 5 years is a reasonable start. If historical reliability is important, the extra money might be worth it to you. In five or ten years there may be something dramatically better on the market, but in the grand scheme the cost of 6000XP inverters is not going to be the most expensive item in your system. Personally, I would only put in an AIO based system, with multiple high voltage MPPT 's for sanity. More boxes add flexibility at the expense of complexity, to me the simpler the better. Anything you buy is likely to outlast any batteries you will purchase several times over.

Pretty sure barring some odd event, your 6000XP will be running 10 years from now without any problems, but to that end don't run anything at 100% all the time, and it should last even longer. Most equipment like this fails early if it fails. Probably the contactors will be the biggest issue at some point in the distant future.

 

[Madcodger]

You can run radiant floor surface temperatures about 87-90 degrees before they become uncomfortable on bare feet.

I've installed several electric mat systems in previous homes (bathrooms). Generally kept floor at 84, which felt great but could overhear adjacent bedroom (we like bedrooms ~62-65). The problem in this new house is that it won't lose heat as quickly as a standard home (R43 walls, R60 ceiling, triple pane windows with U factor < 0.2, even 0.15). So, the thermostats won't call for much heat, leaving the hydronic radiant to just barely "trickle in" heat, even when very cold outside. Great for energy savings, but a floor temp over 80 will almost always overheat the room. So, water temp may well be only in the 90s. Tradeoffs...

A properly designed radiant floor system uses the lowest possible water temperature depending on tubing and layout and type of heat emitter. Less stand by losses and more efficiency not heating water hotter than needed.

Agree!

Thanks for the thread I am trying to decide on Victron or go another rout. I need 240v 50amp split phase with 24 volt batteries. If I do Victron it looks like I am stacking four Victron 24/3000/70-50 to get there.

I have that exact Multiplus now, in current "multi-shed" build. Awesome little unit. Only time I hear fans is when charging from AC or gen, but load typically only 100-150 watts. Will give it more of a workout in spring/summer when mini split installed in office. I'm just really struggling with this decision, for reasons earlier noted. Need to speak with CurrentConnected soon but don't want to waste their time until they break ground. Well drilled yesterday. 48 gallons/minute at 280 feet. I was ready to do backflips.

 

[S Davis]

I've installed several electric mat systems in previous homes (bathrooms). Generally kept floor at 84, which felt great but could overhear adjacent bedroom (we like bedrooms ~62-65). The problem in this new house is that it won't lose heat as quickly as a standard home (R43 walls, R60 ceiling, triple pane windows with U factor < 0.2, even 0.15). So, the thermostats won't call for much heat, leaving the hydronic radiant to just barely "trickle in" heat, even when very cold outside. Great for energy savings, but a floor temp over 80 will almost always overheat the room. So, water temp may well be only in the 90s. Tradeoffs...



Agree!

I have that exact Multiplus now, in current "multi-shed" build. Awesome little unit. Only time I hear fans is when charging from AC or gen, but load typically only 100-150 watts. Will give it more of a workout in spring/summer when mini split installed in office. I'm just really struggling with this decision, for reasons earlier noted. Need to speak with CurrentConnected soon but don't want to waste their time until they break ground. Well drilled yesterday. 48 gallons/minute at 280 feet. I was ready to do backflips.

Lucky on the water, I have one job in the San Juan islands that is basically a big 40 acre rock and they get 3/4 gpm and have 4-10,000 gallon water storage tanks they continually fill.