EG4-LifePower4 batteries - Are these bad?

[ColtB45]

Update 2023/04/20: The batteries issue was resolved with the firmware mentioned in this post. The inverter still throws fault 04 when starting the 24,000 BTU window unit.

I bought 3 EG4-LifePower4 batteries that arrived on Wednesday (6/29/2022). They are from Signature Solar of course and are "refurb/used/open-box/garage sale". They were $1,124.25 each and I have 14 days of warranty / return window (from 6/29). After Wed 7/13 they have no further warranty from SS and I'd be stuck with them.

This is what they look like:

May favorite first. I have no concerns with this one. This unit seems brand new and just damaged in shipping.



This one is obviously a return and I am concerned about the SOH as it relates to the cycles.
It's SOH has been reduced to 99.9% Max capacity has been reduced to 99.9%. It has 4 cycles on it.
Extrapolating 4 cycles removing a tenth of a percent of health, in 800 cycles we would remove 20% health. That's 80% SOH in just a little over 2 years.



(continued below)

 

[ColtB45]

The last one is clearly the most beat up and been used the longest. It also has the largest max diff @ 0.005V.
Cycles are @ 59. SOH is at 98.9%. Max Capacity is at 99.94%.
Extrapolating the cycles and SOH on this one it will reach 80% SOH in less than 3.5 years.



So, what are your takes on these batteries? Am I off extrapolating the future SOH? Would you return the last two?

Thanks,
-Colt

 

[Koldsimer]

Man, the corrosion around those screws would make me nervous. Did you pop the cover off and see if the corrosion is limited to the exterior? Almost looked like it was stored near chlorine.

The shipping damage module i would keep for sure.

 

[Koldsimer]

As far as state of health reporting, i wouldn't put much faith in that figure. David Poz has had his lifepower batteries in regular service for a year. His batteries show a 100% state of health. I don't know how that would even be possible after a year of use.

 

[ColtB45]

As far as state of health reporting, i wouldn't put much faith in that figure. David Poz has had his lifepower batteries in regular service for a year. His batteries show a 100% state of health. I don't know how that would even be possible after a year of use.

That's exactly what had me concerned but from the opposite angle. He's had his batteries in service for over a year but they haven't diminished at all. These have way fewer cycles on them and have diminished (according to SOH).

 

[Kornbread]

Were those batteries that dirty when you received them? Why are those screws corroded?

 

[ColtB45]

Were those batteries that dirty when you received them? Why are those screws corroded?

Yes, that's exactly how I got them less the boxes.
There is a layer of fine dust around the screw heads almost like gypsum. The screw holes are wallered out and epical on the last one. They seem too have used indelible markers around the screw holes.
I'll get a better picture.

If I pop the cover to check the interior will that void the 14 day warranty and prevent me from making a return should it be needed?

 

[Browse]

Is it too hard for an employee at SS to wipe down refurb units with IPA prior to sending out to a customer? I'd be fired from my job if I sent out something like that.

 

[Kornbread]

My guess is the first one was shipping damage and probably never used with the one counted cycle being from manufacture.

The second one concerns me as to why, after three cycles, it was returned. .002v max differential does not appear a cell imbalance issue, unless it was balanced by SigSolar before shipping, which I find doubtful as it does not appear they bothered to clean them before shipping. Maybe the 'short alarm' that has been reported with these batteries?

The third one ... yeah. It's dirty, and as you stated, maybe gypsum dust, as in it was being used in a new home build and the dust got on everything. Ok wit that, but dang SigSolar, it would have taken a few minutes to clean it up. IIRC, the cells tend to drift more at the top and bottom of their range, so .005v max differential doesn't seem like an issue to me, but YMMV. This >>> Elongated screw holes with a dab of marker to hide the marks, my thoughts are that battery has been opened up. The who, what, where, when, and why would concern me enough to call SigSolar and find the history on that particular unit.

 

[ColtB45]

Is it too hard for an employee at SS to wipe down refurb units with IPA prior to sending out to a customer? I'd be fired from my job if I sent out something like that.

For the discount I can give it a pass. If you give me 25% off to clean it myself I'll take it every time. I am really only concerned with the state of health of the last two packs.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

As far as SOH - I would do a charge/discharge test. If it's 100% capacity (within specs) I wouldn't be as concerned In fact, I'd do a charge/discharge test on all of them.

 

[ColtB45]

As far as SOH - I would do a charge/discharge test. If it's 100% capacity (within specs) I wouldn't be as concerned

I'm about to let my newbie show... I haven't even got the inverter (Growatt 12K) installed yet. Is the charge/discharge test a function the inverter can do and keep track of? Would the batteries? or do I need a dedicated test tool?

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

I'm about to let my newbie show... I haven't even got the inverter (Growatt 12K) installed yet. Is the charge/discharge test a function the inverter can do and keep track of? Would the batteries? or do I need a dedicated test tool?

Yes, you could do a charge/discharge test with the Growatt.

You need a 48v (LifePo4) charger (or charge controller) and a 48v discharge load to test. At 5kwh/battery that's too large for small cheap chargers in a reasonable time frame although if you could borrow one in the short run, even a cheap inverter at 1000w could discharge one in ~5hrs.

Maybe you'll get the Growatt before the warranty expires? but even after the warranty I'd do the test just to confirm that you're starting off with batteries that function.

I've been processing batteries for several years now, and charge/discharge capability for test is second nature, recommend you develop this capability/procedures eventually as it's a really good tool to expose the health of a battery.

 

[ColtB45]

Yes, you could do a charge/discharge test with the Growatt.

You need a 48v (LifePo4) charger (or charge controller) and a 48v discharge load to test. At 5kwh/battery that's too large for small cheap chargers in a reasonable time frame although if you could borrow one in the short run, even a cheap inverter at 1000w could discharge one in ~5hrs.

Maybe you'll get the Growatt before the warranty expires? but even after the warranty I'd do the test just to confirm that you're starting off with batteries that function.

I've been processing batteries for several years now, and charge/discharge capability for test is second nature, recommend you develop this capability/procedures eventually as it's a really good tool to expose the health of a battery.

Thank you.

I have the Growatt, just not installed yet. I'm contemplating a benchtop test with the Growatt and the batteries (individually) pre install.

 

[ColtB45]

Here are the additional pictures on the third unit after it's been wiped down with a dry paper towel.
You can see the lid had been bent up then bent back down getting it close to flat.
I think they used some replacement screws and the indelible ink was to make the silver screws appear black.
All in all, I'm not concerned with the cosmetics. Honestly I knew that was a possibility in buying the units I did. The only thing that concerns me is there longevity, and that's the only reason I would consider returning them.

Anybody have any guidance on opening it up and how that will affect my ability to return it?

 

[Koldsimer]

Just pop the top cover off. Shouldn't affect warranty- don't know how they could ever tell anyway.

Could be factory clean or it could be a nightmare with 2 quarts of drywall mud all set up. Won't know until you open it up.

 

[Kornbread]

Is it the pics, or do all those screws look a bit rounded like the top has been completely removed? I'd want to know what's in there. I'd guess the soh is just some algorithmically derived arbitrary representation, and IMO, not a deal breaker. If you find something fishy inside, cells start going out of balance, or one of them does the 'short alarm' thing ... that is another can of worms.

I'd want to cycle these things before the 14day warranty expires. Maybe a temporary hookup with the GW12k? Would it be possible to use the GW to run the batteries down, then hook up a few panels to the GW and recharge the batteries? @OffGridInTheCity

 

[ColtB45]

Just pop the top cover off. Shouldn't affect warranty- don't know how they could ever tell anyway.

Could be factory clean or it could be a nightmare with 2 quarts of drywall mud all set up. Won't know until you open it up.

Well, I am a straight shooter and we are on a public forum that SS is very active on. I was fishing for @SignatureSolarJames or @RichardfromEG4 to give their blessing before I did it.

Is it the pics, or do all those screws look a bit rounded like the top has been completely removed? I'd want to know what's in there. I'd guess the soh is just some algorithmically derived arbitrary representation, and IMO, not a deal breaker. If you find something fishy inside, cells start going out of balance, or one of them does the 'short alarm' thing ... that is another can of worms.

I'd want to cycle these things before the 14day warranty expires. Maybe a temporary hookup with the GW12k? Would it be possible to use the GW to run the batteries down, then hook up a few panels to the GW and recharge the batteries? @OffGridInTheCity

The screws are rounded, some even replaced. The holes are damaged. The lid is bent up in the corner. The top has definitely been removed. No doubt of that.

I'll have to search and see what this short alarm thing is. I hadn't stumbled across it yet. Hopefully I don't experience it.?

I'll reach out via support and see if they can give me anything on these two batteries history and service that would help in my assessment.

I'll also be bench testing the batts and Growatt running my shop (including a 24,000 BTU, 240V, wall unit AC).

 

[Kornbread]

This eg4 alarm is one of many. Maybe look in the energy storage section. Let us know how the HVAC goes.

 

[ColtB45]

This eg4 alarm is one of many. Maybe look in the energy storage section. Let us know how the HVAC goes.

Ah, the guy with the vacuum cleaner that tripped his batteries and not his inverter.