diy solar

diy solar

enphase 7.0 to grid with minimum hardware

cwilken

New Member
Joined
May 21, 2021
Messages
73
I have some Enphase 7.0 microcontrollers that I would like to hook up to some extra solar panels i have lying around and put a little bit into the grid if I could. I want to stay under the baseline amount that is used constantly all day. I don't have a net meter but just want to put a small amount into the my grid system if there is a safe way to use inexpensive hardware to step down and match the slightly higher voltage of the enphase unit to my home's grid system. Any ideas?
 
Are you referring to Enphase IQ7 microinverters? Its worth mentioning that operating a grid-interactive inverter without Permission to Operate from the utility company is probably illegal, depending on your location.
It sounds like your electric rates are tiered so if you go over baseline the price per kWh increases. What you are suggesting should work to reduce daytime usage as some of your household electricity demand will be supplied by the microinverters thus the meter will not total up as much usage.
Not sure about the step down issue. Are you saying the minimum operating voltage range of the microinverter is higher than what is delivered to your home? If so I believe a step down (buck) transformer could be used. Depending on the input and output voltage ranges you may be able to find something off the shelf. If not then a custom transformer could be designed but that would not be inexpensive.
 
Yes you can hook the micro's to a panel and then hook 240 ac to the other set of plugs. This will work if you have power feeding them. They do not make there own power the add to the power on the lines connected to them. If you have a digital meter on your house and end up going over the baseload of your supply you will likely be billed for the power you send back.

When I have back feed the grid and didn't have a contract completed with the power company they knew instantly and sent service people out right away to scold me. They hope to catch people flipping the meter and trying to steal power like used to happen in the old days. Good Luck.
 
Are you referring to Enphase IQ7 microinverters? Its worth mentioning that operating a grid-interactive inverter without Permission to Operate from the utility company is probably illegal, depending on your location.
It sounds like your electric rates are tiered so if you go over baseline the price per kWh increases. What you are suggesting should work to reduce daytime usage as some of your household electricity demand will be supplied by the microinverters thus the meter will not total up as much usage.
Not sure about the step down issue. Are you saying the minimum operating voltage range of the microinverter is higher than what is delivered to your home? If so I believe a step down (buck) transformer could be used. Depending on the input and output voltage ranges you may be able to find something off the shelf. If not then a custom transformer could be designed but that would not be inexpensive.
Maybe there is no stepdown issue. I think I said that because of a lifetime of calling AC 110 and 220 when in fact it is 120 and 240. So does a IQ7 microinverter automatically match the frequency and voltage of the grid it is attached to or does it need an Envoy interface?
 
Yes you can hook the micro's to a panel and then hook 240 ac to the other set of plugs. This will work if you have power feeding them. They do not make there own power the add to the power on the lines connected to them. If you have a digital meter on your house and end up going over the baseload of your supply you will likely be billed for the power you send back.

When I have back feed the grid and didn't have a contract completed with the power company they knew instantly and sent service people out right away to scold me. They hope to catch people flipping the meter and trying to steal power like used to happen in the old days. Good Luck.
So would it be possible to wire just a panel with a IQ7 microinverter to a 240v plug in order to reduce my homes phantom load or do I need more hardware interface than that? I'm thinking of not going over the daytime baseload. Could I wire two in parallel like that?
 
So would it be possible to wire just a panel with a IQ7 microinverter to a 240v plug in order to reduce my homes phantom load or do I need more hardware interface than that? I'm thinking of not going over the daytime baseload. Could I wire two in parallel like that?
Yes, you can do what you are saying. I have put a cord end on it and just plugged it into a 240 outlet. Not really to code but call it portable and not sure what they can do, really you can just unplug it, much like people that plug their generators into the wall and backfeed. The IQ series has rapid shut down inside it so it is safe for the power line people. I have measured it and they shut down in like under a second.
 
Yes, you can do what you are saying. I have put a cord end on it and just plugged it into a 240 outlet. Not really to code but call it portable and not sure what they can do, really you can just unplug it, much like people that plug their generators into the wall and backfeed. The IQ series has rapid shut down inside it so it is safe for the power line people. I have measured it and they shut down in like under a second.
Were you able to attach a cord to multiple IQ7s in parallel and plug them into a 240 outlet? Or were you able to sting a few panels together and use one IQ7 to plug into the outlet?
 
Last edited:
Were you able to attach a cord to multiple IQ7s in parallel and plug them into a 240 outlet?
Yes, you can even buy a cord from emphases with the connectors and just cap one end and put a plug on the other. Or you can buy the connectors and make your own cord.

 
Note that if you produce excess power it doesn't typically run the power meter backwards, it runs it forward... in which case you'll be paying for power you're giving them rather than using. If you're going to do it, get a bidirectional meter (most power companies will exchange your existing one for free) or set it for zero-export.
 
Note that if you produce excess power it doesn't typically run the power meter backwards, it runs it forward... in which case you'll be paying for power you're giving them rather than using. If you're going to do it, get a bidirectional meter (most power companies will exchange your existing one for free) or set it for zero-export.
Clarification on bi-directional meters. Bi-directional seems to be a hold-over term from the when the meters were mechanical and had a spinning wheel, they would indeed turn backwards in some cases. Even the utility companies still use this obsolete terminology in their published literature.
Those mechanical meters have mostly all been replaced by digital, 2 channel meters that communicate wirelessly with the utility to provide billing info, no more meter reader in your backyard once per month.
The digital meters generally have 1 channel that totals incoming power and 1 channel the totals outgoing solar production. The difference between them is your NET usage either a positive or negative number. The utilities had to completely rework the math for their billing systems.

When we installed our first solar system in 2011 we were one of the first in the area. As such I noticed our electric bill was significantly different than the values I had been monitoring and writing down everyday. It took awhile to get their attention but eventually I received a call from one of their solar customer managers and was told that the meter technician had been out to our house and determined the meter was defective. They replaced it, gave us a credit for the previous 2 months and started from zero. Moral of the story, don't just trust that the so called revenue grade meters they install are working correctly. Trust but Verify.
 
Yes, you can even buy a cord from emphases with the connectors and just cap one end and put a plug on the other. Or you can buy the connectors and make your own cord.

Thanks Newbostonconst !
So from the picture I would cut the connector on the extended end and cap the connector on the other end. Then I would put a 3 or 4 prong 240 volt plug on the other end and plug it in or wire it directly to a 20 amp circuit. Is there a ground connector in there too or just a common and two hot wires? That cable you show somehow puts them together in parallel?
 
Last edited:
Clarification on bi-directional meters. Bi-directional seems to be a hold-over term from the when the meters were mechanical and had a spinning wheel, they would indeed turn backwards in some cases. Even the utility companies still use this obsolete terminology in their published literature.
Those mechanical meters have mostly all been replaced by digital, 2 channel meters that communicate wirelessly with the utility to provide billing info, no more meter reader in your backyard once per month.
The digital meters generally have 1 channel that totals incoming power and 1 channel the totals outgoing solar production. The difference between them is your NET usage either a positive or negative number. The utilities had to completely rework the math for their billing systems.

When we installed our first solar system in 2011 we were one of the first in the area. As such I noticed our electric bill was significantly different than the values I had been monitoring and writing down everyday. It took awhile to get their attention but eventually I received a call from one of their solar customer managers and was told that the meter technician had been out to our house and determined the meter was defective. They replaced it, gave us a credit for the previous 2 months and started from zero. Moral of the story, don't just trust that the so called revenue grade meters they install are working correctly. Trust but Verify.
I have a digital meter as shown. Im wondering if my utility will measure the daily net amount or measure like you say both inbound and outbound AC and do the math themselves per day.
 

Attachments

  • meter.jpg
    meter.jpg
    228.9 KB · Views: 3
Thanks Newbostonconst !
So from the picture I would cut the connector on the extended end and cap the connector on the other end. Then I would put a 3 or 4 prong 240 volt plug on the other end and plug it in or wire it directly to a 20 amp circuit. Is there a ground connector in there too or just a common and two hot wires? That cable you show somehow puts them together in parallel?
When you order it you tell them the number of plugs you want. The wire also is available in two lengths I think for if you orientate the panels portrait or landscape. There will be a pig tail at each end and one will need to be capped and the other you can put a 240 vac plug end on. The pigtail will be half the length of the distance between two connectors because of how they need to cut it. The wire only has 2 conductors in it. Look up the gage of the wire, I don't remember.... 12 gage would be a 20 amp breaker and 14 gage is 15 amp breaker. I think it is 14 gage but not 100%

Yes the cable parallels all the connectors on it, or you can order your own connectors.
 
When you order it you tell them the number of plugs you want. The wire also is available in two lengths I think for if you orientate the panels portrait or landscape. There will be a pig tail at each end and one will need to be capped and the other you can put a 240 vac plug end on. The pigtail will be half the length of the distance between two connectors because of how they need to cut it. The wire only has 2 conductors in it. Look up the gage of the wire, I don't remember.... 12 gage would be a 20 amp breaker and 14 gage is 15 amp breaker. I think it is 14 gage but not 100%

Yes the cable parallels all the connectors on it, or you can order your own connectors.
Only 2 conductors??? That must be the two hots....correct?
 
I have a digital meter as shown. Im wondering if my utility will measure the daily net amount or measure like you say both inbound and outbound AC and do the math themselves per day.
Not exactly sure what the measurement interval is but SCE has an online portal where I can view usage and even compare to last year. Commercial and Industrial electricity is metered by both Time of Use and Peak Demand so these digital meters can transmit very detailed usage info. I attached 3 pics. Channel 001 is incoming, Channel 071 is outgoing from our solar and 082 appears to be instantaneous usage with the last digit missing. At the time of the pic the AC was running so the excess solar going to the grid was only -540. Once the AC cycles off we should be back to -3kW range.
 

Attachments

  • CH 001 In.JPG
    CH 001 In.JPG
    165 KB · Views: 5
  • CH 071 Out.JPG
    CH 071 Out.JPG
    188 KB · Views: 5
  • CH 082 Inst..JPG
    CH 082 Inst..JPG
    157.6 KB · Views: 5
Only 2 conductors??? That must be the two hots....correct?
Thanks everyone...I have one last question for Newbostonconst:
1. When you make your own cable there is not polarity with the two hot wires that interface with each IQ7????
2. There is no issue in having more than one circuit that has a chain of IQ7s attached? For example if one circuit 100 feet closer to the main breaker box than another will the the voltage drop in the longer circuit produce voltage slightly different than the other and cause any kind of modulation problems to the system? Do you have any experience with multiple circuit input plugs with multiple daisy chained units? Will they effect each other or should I put them all on the same circuit?
 
With AC it doesn't matter unless you use small wire and the there is resistance that causes the voltage to increase at the micro... The iq will see the increased voltage and throttle back production if this happens.

I have four sets with one at 250' and three at around 150' to the breaker box... They are part of our landscaping with mulch around them just laying on the ground... We have 5 acre's...
 
Back
Top