Enphase IQ Battery (Enphase Ensemble) Installation

[kendive]

So wanted to start a new thread @svetz on our adventure getting two IQ 10T Batteries and all the other equipment that goes with it. I used a local company and different one that did our solar install over two years ago. You can see my sig to see what we have for solar. I am not going to list the solar company yet to give them time to fix the issues they have created.

It's been rough so far with there installers and electricians what ever you want to call them that have been out. When I got the solar installed they upgraded my panel to an Eaton to follow the 120 % Rule. So I got this nice brand new large panel installed next to the meter.

I was just gonna go with one IQ 10T and deal with the panel shedding but they made a deal and I buy the second at cost and no install fee. So we opted for the second 10T battery and no panel shedding needed.

So I paid cash for half of this a few months back to get the ball rolling. It's been a long wait but they got alot done so far. I'm al little unhappy the way they installed the wire taps/splices in my main panel and smashed all the aluminum wires on the bottom of the panel. Looks like dog @$$%%%^^ and I'm sure they are impeding the bend radius of those wires. At one time they had them all ty rapped tight. LOL I would have made that very nice and neat and went straight up each side and staggered the tap/splices. They are going to re wire all of that they say they know they screwed up.

Another issue is with my Eaton Panel They have a 125 AMP Breaker installed right now going down to the extra sub backup panel they added. So the whole house is running off this 125amp breaker. They say they have a 175 on order but I looked up on Eaton's website and I only see 125 as the biggest they offer. They will probably have to add another panel and put a different style 175amp breaker in and I'm not paying for that.

So here is the One Line Eng Drawing. Pretty simple and straight forward. You can see they de-rated our main panel from 200 to 175amps. I am also getting three load controllers. They have done nothing to install them yet except mount the two out side. The third one is getting mount above the sub panel in the house. The they run a control cable 24VDC to control those two contactors. These will be use to shut off loads not needed while on battery backup. You can control them in the Enphase app. When they are done I will install my solar energy monitor back. I pulled it because they did not like it in there I understand. I use this one https://openenergymonitor.org/

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Here is a picture of my main panel and the mess they have on the bottom with the wire tap/splices to wire the new backup panel.

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Here is a pic inside the IQ Controller.

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The system on our side wall. Yes the batteries are outside. My wife was not having them in the house and the three car garage is on the other side.

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Right now that have the batteries off and I'm finally showing solar being produced been down for 5 days. They could have plan that better.

Also it's showing Grid Status Unknown for some reason ?????????????? I think they have the CT wiring installed wrong in the envoy

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[svetz]

Congratulations!!!!

I'm really looking forward to you blogging on your system! If you haven't seen @Thebravo's thread, he's another recent Enphase blogger. The roof-top microinverter to battery limits is a pain. I sure hope they do an Envoy update, would love to put some IQ8s on my roof for some new panels to avoid PV shedding, but don't want a 2nd Envoy or to spend money on more batteries now when I'm sure prices will fall.

Wow! That's quite the number the electrician did. Has the county done the electrical inspection yet? I wouldn't be surprised if they made them rewire that. If your paying by the job rather than the hour a word in your inspector's ear might get it cleaned up. A lot of times on marginal things they'll let it slide so the homeowner isn't saddled with additional expenses, but if they know you're unhappy about stuff in advance they won't hesitate to flag it.

I'm not sure why solar installers don't do line-side taps more often, especially with two IQ10Ts. Mine had odd notions about how they thought it should be done with critical circuits and I told them no, put a line tap in here. They had to blink a few times before they finally got it and agreed, but ultimately it saved them time, money, made for a neater install, and got my house fully backed up with its very odd service entrance. It helped that getting to the meter was easy and getting to the load center was a nightmare.

Can we get a closeup of the IQ Combiner? Mine doesn't have the labels like yours. I did put some labels in my IQ Combiner and Enpower so I'd know which was which. But, while the labels make sense to me, they might not make sense to the fire department so I'd love to get mine standardized. I suppose I should check the Enphase University on that.

Looks like you got the brand-new versions of IQ10Ts? Nice! On my 1st generation they warn you not to have them outside in the cold, the datasheet says 5º F which is far colder than we'll ever see. I see your lowest low is 21°F so you should be good too. I still wonder if they have a BMS with a temperature cutoff.

Whew! Ambient high-temperature maximum is 98°F? Guessing you must have some serious summer humidity. ; -) Have to agree with your wife though, the batteries belong outside (hopefully that's not the south side of the house where they'll be in constant sunlight getting hot). It's funny to see them so low (had to mount mine way high due to code, they have to be BFE+1), joys of island life. Mine are on the west side, but under the porch and high, so don't see much sun.

 

[kendive]

Thanks. Yea I have to agree with you and my wife they are better outside and yes NOT on the south side. If that was the case they would have been installed in the garage. I'm in the Pensacola, FL area so it gets hot and humid. I don't think there will be too much of an issue with the cold and heat on the batteries. Only time will tell.

I will have to bring up the Line Tap. I did not think of that. I figured that are a Gold Enphase Local installer they should know what they are doing? I will bring that up to them. @svetz Can I see a pic of you Line Tap setup if you get a chance? We only have two local installers and the other one did our solar. I don't believe in using these fly by night installers that knock on your door. LOL But I'm having my remorse picking this company to install the batteries. The owner told me on the phone if it's not up to my standards it's not up to there's and they will rewire this mess. I get concerned of them messing with those aluminum wires going into my home again. They do break if you keep messing with them.

No the county has not done the electrical inspection yet. I know it would not pass as is.

Ok you wanted better pics of the Envoy IQ Combiner. I went out and got a bunch of them.

Here ya go...

They moved the main IQ Combiner 30 amp Breaker out and installed into the IQ Controller 2.

I don't remember that USB Dongle pugged into the IQ Combiner it's next to where the Cell Modem is plugged into.

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More pics I took this morning.

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Hope I answered all your questions. Here is a pic of inside one of the Load Controllers. They are just standard ABB Contactors controlled by 24VDC.

I do believe they use these to do the solar panel shedding if you have more solar that battery according to there chart.

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[svetz]

Thanks for the photos! Those thin batteries are very sexy!!

Your Envoy breaker is missing from the IQ Combiner... looks like the orange purple wire are it's supply and they go out the bottom? Hmmm, looks like they might go into the Enpower on a 20 amp breaker... that's a lot of breaker for the envoy ... is that how you reset the Envoy? I'd ask about that... the IQ3C installation guide says not to exceed a 10 amp breaker, might want to validate the wire gauge too. If it's all okay and you're happy with it, I'd still suggest labeling it....stuff is never clear what it does 6 months from now or when things stop working.

...Can I see a pic of you Line Tap setup if you get a chance?... You probably already saw it in my blog, but as it's weird it needs some explanation. The house had an addition and more than doubled in size. Rather than change out all the wiring it has two load centers and so two main external 150 amp breaker (east & west) panels. From the 200 amp grid/meter, it goes out the right to the Enpower, from the Enpower it goes into a splitter box and feeds the east & west panels, which then flows to load centers inside the house. It's a snake's nest, but since that photo I painted over the conduit to camouflage it, similar to the PV conduit coming down from the roof. Still ugly. Taped over the labels while painting although I noticed today they're starting to fade.

As a side note, you can see why I was asking about the labeling/placards. The Enpower contains the single main breaker that will de-energize the house, yet it doesn't have any labels on it (yours does). The east/west panels are labeled and will de-energize the house, which might be clear enough for the fire department that both have to be flipped. The IQ Combiner has the expected labels externally, but when open no labels for what the breakers do. It's also not clear from quick observation how to remove the Battery covers or that there is a DC switch in there. I went ahead and asked on the Enphase forums.

...The owner told me on the phone if it's not up to my standards it's not up to there's and they will rewire this mess...

He sounds like a peach. Being willing to work with you on such things speaks volumes about them. Crap is always going to happen, but going out of their way to make the customer happy is priceless.

I don't remember that USB Dongle pugged into the IQ Combiner it's next to where the Cell Modem is plugged into.

It's the ZigBee USB stick to communicate with the batteries and Enpower. I've only seen complaints about bad ZigBee connections in the gen1 stuff, I've gone to ridiculous lengths (DIY Zigbee parabolic reflector (failure), Changing Channels to improve Zigbee (failure), USB extender to improve Zigbee (slightly better), see also #401 & #419) to improve my signal and as you can see they're only a few feet apart.

Update: This doc says a 20 amp breaker is okay for the Envoy.

 

[kendive]

So you Enpower is my IQ Controller 2. I know Enphase changed the name of everything. LOL

Yes the purple and orange wires go over to the IQ Controller 2 and the breaker is now in there to power the Envoy (IQ Combiner) The 20amp breaker was always in the IQ Combiner and they just moved it. I could put an amp clamp meter on the power to the IQ Combiner to see what amps it really draws. Yea I agree 20amp is probably over kill and I thought it was a 30...

One of my questions was the CT's for the main line coming into the house. Do they stay over there and when everything switches to the batteries and grid is lost those will not read amps anymore. I guess the batteries and IQ Controller take over on what amps are being used?

Here are some better pictures of the IQ Controller 2 with the cover on so you can see the breakers and the labels are molded into the plastic.

It's funny they have a 50 amp breaker just for the Neutral Forming Transformer. If you switched that off I guess you lose all your 120VAC Feeds???

Thanks for the info on ZigBee. That makes no sense to communicate to the batteries wifi when you have them wired already I would have done sort of canbus or something.

Yea they are working with me. Tomorrow they are sending out the best of the best because I complained about the wiring job in my panel. They are having a meeting with there master technician before they come out. Will update later...

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[svetz]

It's funny they have a 50 amp breaker just for the Neutral Forming Transformer (NFT). If you switched that off I guess you lose all your 120VAC Feeds???

I don't believe so. Split-phase is a 3-wire system representing a center-tapped 240V transformer. So Line-to-neutral is 120V and line-to-line is 240V. The idea was to have lower voltages at most outlets and be "safer".

A 4 kW inverter simulates this by putting 2 kW on L1 and 2 kW on L2. It's a problem if you want 3 kW on L1 and a lot of first-time inverter buyers get surprised by this. As I understand it, what the NFT does is allow power to move from L2 to L1 in that situation (e.g., you can get 3kW on L1). The NFT is rated for 50 amps, so that's probably the most you can transfer between phases.

But I've never actually tried it. I'd say go on battery mode, flip the NFT breaker, and see if a 120V appliance works. I think the only thing you lose is the ability to transfer power between phases with it off.

Thanks for the info on ZigBee. That makes no sense to communicate to the batteries wifi when you have them wired already I would have done sort of canbus or something.

Makes no sense to me either, the IQ8s inside already have ethernet over powerline capabilities and you need to pull cables anyway.
I suspect what happened is they forgot how heavily they shielded the devices, or the shielding got added after the comms were settled and no one thought about it. Probably the antenna on the newer generation is outside of the shielding.

 

[kendive]

Thanks for the explanation of the NFT. That makes more sense to me. I will try turning the breaker off in battery mode when they get done and this system is 100%.

They had a meeting this morning and coming out today. So I will let you know if they decide to do an Line Side Tap or what. I brought that up to them. I also told them I looked up on Eaton's website in there catalog and I don't see an CHF2175 breaker ever avab... The largest is the CHF2125 witch they have installed now.

I will report if I have issues with the Zigbee Comms with the batteries once this system is up and running for a while.

I have been playing with the Enphase app more which I really don't like but new toys to look at I miss my energy monitor I installed. That will go back in when they are done. I'm thinking about putting the grid line CT's on the backup panel so if and when on batteries I still can see usage. The other CT's will be on the solar production which now are landed in the IQ Controller 2.

I have some questions on the app I noticed if you goto the day energy page I now have these dots that look like they have an S and a B in them. I have to put my cheaters on to even see them. It's that getting old thing.

Also looks like my on grid reporting issue went away maybe a software thing? I have not got the unknown grid status again? It has not been very good solar days and they had be down for a few days. The left on a Friday did not say a word and left the solar off The winter in Florida is the best output because the panels stay cooler.

Anyway here are some screen shots of my Enphase app.

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You also mention that Envoy Software Version... Here is a screen shot of that.

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[svetz]

... I will let you know if they decide to do an Line Side Tap or what....

Be aware you lose the ability to do critical circuits with a lineside tap, it'll be a whole house backup. BTW, a lineside tap also eliminates any 120% rule worries (which I don't think affects you).

I miss my energy monitor I installed

Why not hook it back up?

I have some questions on the app I noticed if you goto the day energy page I now have these dots that look like they have an S and a B in them. I have to put my cheaters on to even see them. It's that getting old thing.

Do you mean these? If you hover over them they'll tell you what they mean.

I have not got the unknown grid status again?

Takes a while for the grid status to change, same thing with other devices that it loses contact with, at least 15 minutes to update. Try the "Live status" for something that might be more up to date.

On the Status page, under Devices tab, check that your gateway reporting is on wireless and getting 15 minute updates. The cell phone updates are very slow (hours).

It has not been very good solar days and they had be down for a few days. The left on a Friday did not say a word and left the solar off

They have to if you don't have your PTO yet (Permission To Operate). It comes from the power company, usually hand in hand with the new meter.

 

[kendive]

Be aware you lose the ability to do critical circuits with a lineside tap, it'll be a whole house backup. BTW, a lineside tap also eliminates any 120% rule worries (which I don't think affects you).

What do you mean? This is a whole house backup setup already.

Why not hook it back up?

I will hook up my energy monitor once they are 100% done. I work 28 on and 28 off and I leave for work in a few. I told them I will not let them do any work until I get back. With this mess I am not going to stress the wife over it.

Do you mean these? View attachment 125830 If you hover over them they'll tell you what they mean.



Takes a while for the grid status to change, same thing with other devices that it loses contact with, at least 15 minutes to update. Try the "Live status" for something that might be more up to date.

On the Status page, under Devices tab, check that your gateway reporting is on wireless and getting 15 minute updates. The cell phone updates are very slow (hours).
View attachment 125831

I put a red arrow to what I meant sorry...

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Ok I hovered over it and it told me. LOL

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They have to if you don't have your PTO yet (Permission To Operate). It comes from the power company, usually hand in hand with the new meter.

I have had solar for over two years now there is no PTO needed. This is just the IQ Battery setup we are adding.

 

[svetz]

What do you mean? This is a whole house backup setup already.

I brought it up based on @Thebravo's thread and his experience. Some people like critical circuits and I can see it if you have things that absolutely must not go off.

 

[kendive]

I brought it up based on @Thebravo's thread and his experience. Some people like critical circuits and I can see it if you have things that absolutely must not go off.

Ok I will have to check out his thread. This is a whole house setup and we are using load controllers to control the Water Heater, Dryer, Heat Pump and Electric Heat Strip for the HVAC.

But I will leave the AC running. I already installed the Micro Air Soft start witch dropped the inrush amps from 107.9 to 44.

With Enphase Load Controllers you have full control in the app what to kill or leave on these appliances that are controlled by the load controllers while on batteries.

I am still hashing out with them. I'm not letting them proceed any further until we fix that wire mess in my main panel and figure out this side line tap deal.

Every time they come out and mess with something they grid status on the Enphase app goes bonkers it's back to Grid Status Unknown.

The wired up a load controller yesterday and then the heat pump condenser outside had no power. I was out there this morning checking with my meter and no power.

I lit into them this morning and told them if I have to go out fix my house myself I'm getting a lawyer and you can remove all this from my wall and I will get my half down payment back. Yea it's getting stressful and I don't need to leave for work and have my wife worrying if the power is going to stay on in the house. Again they are a gold star installer with Enphase? I should have done this myself.

They have been out and I had them remove the load controller from the wall and we are at an all stop. They have not even installed the one inside yet for the sub panel. The house is still running from there 125 amp breaker

I will update later when this gets back started. If things don't so south again. They have no more chances. The county code enforcement and Enphase will be involved if they screw up again.

Wish me luck. I'm thinking I should just got a noisy generator. LOL

Update: Just some FYI on the load controllers. I opted for only two. Each load controller can do two 240 loads. The new ones Enphase is coming out with will do four. The ended up adding a third without my knowledge and when they were installing it I question it. They wanted another $600 and I said no at first we haggled to $500 and I said proceed. All it was going to do is the stove which takes human intervention to turn on anyway. Long story short they removed it anyway because those contactors can't handle a 60 amp load. LOL Enphase needs to get there installers up to par on these load controllers.

 

[svetz]

...we are using load controllers to control the Water Heater, Dryer, Heat Pump and Electric Heat Strip for the HVAC....

It'll be nice to hear more about them as you gain real-life experience. I'm too frugal (okay, a cheapskate) to buy their load controllers, and still haven't gotten around to automating the few things that I want to, but I bet I learn a lot from you. Who knows, if they do a fully local version of their IoT I might go that way (why couldn't they have just partnered with Samsung whose SmartThings can do both?). Otherwise, I'll eventually build it. I'm holding off on buying a lot of things... like more battery kWhs as I'm hoping I can just use my future EV's battery (limited options with the current EV).

... installed the Micro Air Soft start witch dropped the inrush amps from 107.9 to 44....

Woot! I'm surprised it's not a little better than that. Is this after training it? If not, you might check the amps after several starts. I went from about 90 to about 30 amps. They worked with me to tune the software too, it took a few revisions... but it was the first time they'd set one up with an Enphase Battery and the whole concept of frequency-shifting the power was new to them.

I lit into them this morning and told them if I have to go out fix my house myself I'm getting a lawyer and you can remove all this from my wall and I will get my half down payment back. Yea it's getting stressful

Dang! Sorry man, nobody needs more stress. Hopefully, they'll take care of it and do right by you.

... they are a gold star installer with Enphase? I should have done this myself.

As you're already whole-house there's no real advantage to switching to lineside unless it helps clean up the wiring. I called up my installer 2 days before the installation as they still hadn't sent me any sort of detailed information about what they were going to do. They sent it to me that afternoon and after reviewing it send them a dozen corrections with explanations as to why (they said I was the first customer to ever do that). To my surprise, they agreed without arguing and came out the next day and did it ; -)

What I did regret later was not putting my foot down about where they wanted to put IQCombiner as the batteries were still a couple of months off. I expressed my concern by explaining to them the physical size of the Enpower; but they were like, don't worry it'll be fine we know what we're doing. When they installed the battery they did have to move and rewire stuff, but the only real downside to me was a couple of extra holes in the wall.

Wish me luck. I'm thinking I should just got a noisy generator. LOL Good luck!!! I'll leave you with the soothing scented therapy candle to the right to help. Merry Christmas!?

 

[kendive]

It'll be nice to hear more about them as you gain real-life experience. I'm too frugal (okay, a cheapskate) to buy their load controllers, and still haven't gotten around to automating the few things that I want to, but I bet I learn a lot from you. Who knows, if they do a fully local version of their IoT I might go that way (why couldn't they have just partnered with Samsung whose SmartThings can do both?). Otherwise, I'll eventually build it. I'm holding off on buying a lot of things... like more battery kWhs as I'm hoping I can just use my future EV's battery (limited options with the current EV).


Woot! I'm surprised it's not a little better than that. Is this after training it? If not, you might check the amps after several starts. I went from about 90 to about 30 amps. They worked with me to tune the software too, it took a few revisions... but it was the first time they'd set one up with an Enphase Battery and the whole concept of frequency-shifting the power was new to them.


Dang! Sorry man, nobody needs more stress. Hopefully, they'll take care of it and do right by you.

Yea I got there attention this morning. I was about to pull the plug on the whole deal. Would have been a mess but I got plenty of time and money to make there life H@##$$%

Yea I have had the Micro Air Soft Start for a few months now. They were really kool they even sent me a bigger cap to put in there just to help more. We have a 4 ton unit.

These Enphase load controllers can be made yourself All they are is ABB Contractors with a 24VDC control and holding circuit. The 24VDC comes from the IQ Controller 2. So they have to be hard wired to the controller. Our sub panel is in the house and they will run two pair cable to control it. Or Two pair if I want to control the two contactors separately. But I could care less if the dryer kicks off with the water heater.

Our house is 100% all electric. I thought about getting a Heat Pump Water Heater, Then it would not have that big of an impact on the batteries. I have not really looked into them yet. Our typical water heater sucks up 5k Watts.

As you're already whole-house there's no real advantage to switching to lineside unless it helps clean up the wiring. I called up my installer 2 days before the installation as they still hadn't sent me any sort of detailed information about what they were going to do. They sent it to me that afternoon and after reviewing it send them a dozen corrections with explanations as to why (they said I was the first customer to ever do that). To my surprise, they agreed without arguing and came out the next day and did it ; -)

What I did regret later was not putting my foot down about where they wanted to put IQCombiner as the batteries were still a couple of months off. I expressed my concern by explaining to them the physical size of the Enpower; but they were like, don't worry it'll be fine we know what we're doing. When they installed the battery they did have to move and rewire stuff, but the only real downside to me was a couple of extra holes in the wall.

Yea I should have asked more questions before I let them start this mess. But I knew they were a top notch company. They have been around a while and I had faith in them. They are going to get micro managed now if they like it or not.

Good luck!!! I'll leave you with the soothing scented therapy candle to the right to help. Merry Christmas!?

Thank you sir. I am heading to work next week to deal with other electrical issues. LOL

 

[kendive]

So I started chatting with the Enphase Engineers yesterday and today and talked to them on the phone. Yes they answered the phone on Christmas. Man they are awesome. Very nice and answered all my questions. I turned on the batteries this morning because they asked me to the other day to check them and update firmware if needed.

So they updated all my 26 IQ7A Microinverters and said the Envoy and IQ Controller was on the latest already.

They also said all six batteries were already on the latest firmware and to let them charge to 100%. I told them they would be off a month because we are still waiting to install the load controllers. They told me that is not an issue and if we needed them they are at 100%. I wanted to get permission before I did anything stupid...

Also all the IQ8's four of them in each battery 24 total are updated to the latest firmware.

Those batteries were flat and Enphase said it would take about 5 hours to charge them. It was a sunny day but I noticed as the winter goes on the max wattage drops as the days are shorter.

Here are some screen shots from the Enphase app. Some of the stuff don't make sense with the batteries but I don't really care for the Enphase app.

I think I am going to add another board and CT set to monitor the input and output of the battery circuit on my energy monitor.

 

[kendive]

It took 17.3 kWh to charge two IQ10T batteries from brand new dead to 100%

Also forgot to note when talking to the Enphase Engineers they told me that the rapid shutdown switch they installed that goes to the IQ Controller 2 was not needed. That is only required if you have the IQ8's on your solar array. Not hurting anything but they said they should have just jumped that out in the controller and not installed the switch.

 

[kendive]

We they have been back out and it's pretty much finished. We have not tested a blackout. Going to do a blackout test during the day and the one at night.

It's been ruff but finally got done. There techs. I call them techs because they are not Electricians at all. I don't know of any electricians that would install an electrical system like this the way they did. Crap...

I made them fix alot during the install and I have fixed some stuff on my own.

We ended up taking the Electric stove off the backup completely which is fine because I did not ask for it to be on there anyway. Don't know why they brought an extra load controller out for it but I told them I'm not paying for it.

Here is a pic of my main panel outside, backup panel and the load controller. My grand kids could have done a better job.

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So I started doing some checking with my Thermal Camera and found some bad connections in the load controller for the water heater and dryer. I have fixed the issue.

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I will update more on this install by SunFarm Energy in Pensacola, FL after we test the system.







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[kendive]

@svetz

Here is a good question for you.

So I two 10T battery install is done and we did a test the other day. I prepared and told the batteries to charge 100%. Going to the batteries was flawless and I ran the 4 ton HVAC system with the soft start with no problem. We did it through the app and also killed the main breaker outside.

So the first question because one of the Enphase support guys has me wondering if they wired my CT's wrong. I looked back at my pictured and they have them wired properly blue / white and blue / white. But without removing a CT and checking voltage I can't tell if they have L1 and L2 correct and would this even matter. I know Enphase is picky about L1 and L2 and I know inside the AC Combiner it's embossed L1 and L2 for the CT's.

The reason this was brought up is because when we tested the battery it went to battery but no solar was helping (I have the IQ7A's) But I was told if the solar has nowhere to go the IQ7A's with change the Freq. (Enphase tolerance is 0.1) for Freq. If the Freq is off more than that your array will shut down? Are they blowing smoke or what seems plausible. So I can watch the IQ7A's just start dropping off line but no major errors reported in the Enphase app at all. Also while on the phone with Enphase they forced my array to come on by sending a command.

Of course I told this to the installer SunFarm Energy. I also told them that Enphase seems to think my CT's are not installed properly and according to that Enphase guy is why I'm not producing solar on batteries?

They called me the next morning saying they talked to Enphase and said and I changed this way later after I was off the phone with Enphase to Self-Consumption Mode. I like to use some of the batteries here and there. So Note... The entire time we were testing and a day before the batteries were in Full Backup Mode. So anyway my installer told me because I have it in Self Consumption mode it's causing the CT's to read improperly. I call BS.... Why would Enphase make that happen in there software.

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So I guess to sum up my questions does the L1 and L2 matter what leg the CT's are installed.

How is this on battery and you solar array gonna kick in to help. Does your Array go down after going to battery and then come up later? Makes no sense to me.

Here are some pics from the app. It was a pretty nasty day but still producing something.

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After Enphase forced the array on.

Thanks



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[svetz]

...we tested the battery it went to battery but no solar was helping (I have the IQ7A's) But I was told if the solar has nowhere to go the IQ7A's with change the Freq. (Enphase tolerance is 0.1) for Freq.

That's correct. The battery has to be a little discharged before it allows the solar to kick in. Different vendor's hybrid systems have different activation points, I think Enphase is around 97%. As I understand it, the reason for this is the speed of throttling the panels. There has to be enough headspace in the battery to funnel excess energy while they're being ramped down or turned off.

Even off-grid systems turn off the solar panels when the battery is full to prevent battery overcharging.

The IQ8s are fast enough they can do sunlight backup without a battery, but I've heard the programming still leaves headroom in the batteries for them so possibly it has to do more with potential overcharging than speed.

If the Freq is off more than that your array will shut down?

Yes, all the newer grid-tied inverters have this feature so the utility can reduce export of power from DERs (e.g., your home). You can read about it from the UL 1741 SA testing spec (there's a new update coming that will allow utilities to request more power from a DERs ESS). Enphase has it setup in the profile so they can change it as needed (e.g., the EU runs at 50 Hz normally, so has different frequency ranges). I forget the exact numbers, but essentially at 60 Hz you're full output, a little higher and it ramps down linearly until at some point it goes to 0 (62 Hz?). The system can set them to 0 output without changing the frequency (but I believe the system primarily uses the frequency for ramping power).

The frequency is just the mechanism though. What's important is that the panel's must be curtailed while off-grid as there would otherwise be nowhere for the excess power to go. Enphase has some add-on devices (which I think you might have) that can turn circuits on/off based on when it "knows" there's excess solar power (e.g., turn on EV charging while there is excess power, but off rather than drain the battery).

There are some places in the GUI that report the frequency, but you can also get it from https://envoy.local/ivp/meters/readings.

... my installer told me because I have it in Self Consumption mode it's causing the CT's to read improperly.... I call BS....

That's BS. Power flow indicators don't change because of battery mode.

So I guess to sum up my questions does the L1 and L2 matter what leg the CT's are installed.

If you had one set of CTs like most systems it wouldn't matter. But when you have multiple sets it's important they match so L1 home is tied to L1 Grid for the various math to work. I'd call Enphase back, use the case number, and report what your installer said to them and see what they say. They can also follow-up with the vendor, possibly it was a miscommunication or they thought you had grid charging activating.

I didn't see enough information from the pics to understand what you're seeing as to why you think it might be hooked up wrong or what it was doing different in different battery modes.

How is this on battery and you solar array gonna kick in to help. Does your Array go down after going to battery and then come up later? Makes no sense to me.

It's because the battery needs to be a bit discharged (the headroom I mentioned) for the system to work safely.

On my system, it starts on" battery only" until the battery drains to about 97%. Then the inverters come on and match the power being used by varying the frequency. Typically during the day I make more than I use, so the battery charges back up > 97% and then the panels turn off again and the process repeats. But normally, after a night off-grid, your battery would be depleted and the next morning the panels would be at 100% until the battery charged up.

When there's not enough solar the battery back-fills the needed energy and solar recharges the battery when there's enough power.

 

[kendive]

@svetz Thanks for the detailed answers and it all makes sense. I just hate when the installer is making up answers and or Enphase is feeding them incorrect information and then they twist it up and try to tell me there version of it.

We finally got some good sunlight and I figured I would go off grid again and be patient because Enphase app is the slowest thing on the planet. LOL

So your are correct on the 97% SOC. So again my IQ7A's started dropping off when I went off grid seem to take longer but again it's hard to tell because Enphase app is soooo slowwww. I will have my home made Energy Monitor back up and running soon. That will tell me real time what's going on.

I think it's dumb that Enphase app has to text me a code to go off grid and on grid. Just let me pick a code and use it all the time.

I turned on the Heat Pump HVAC heat in the house to load up the batteries and right at 97% SOC the solar kicked back in.

.
Also I do believe that my CT's are working great. Those Enphase techs still got my OCD running that L1 and L2 are swapped but I would have to go out and do some checking. I rather leave the installer out of that one. They would probably make things worse. I know they are wired correctly I can see that in my pics. But I feel now that everything is operating 100% I will call Enphase back later and have then look over things again.

Here are some more pics and this last test things seems to work as should. One thing is you have to have alot of patience.

I do have the HVAC Load Control to stay on until about 50% SOC for now just playing around. That soft start I installed works perfect.

Back on grid.

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[svetz]

... Enphase app is the slowest thing on the planet.... Check that the normal app is updated every 15 min, you can see it in the gateway section on the "devices" tab as shown to the right. The Cell Modem only updates every couple of hours. If it is switched just call Tech support, they can switch it remotely. the "live status" updates more frequently, but I'm not sure by how much.

...I think it's dumb that Enphase app has to text me a code to go off grid and on grid. Just let me pick a code and use it all the time....

You can get a code for as long as 6 months, see #388. If the internet is down you can get into your system (the cell phone app detects that and can use a local connection over a network connection). I get the 6 month code as it's easier for for my monitoring setup.

Also I do believe that my CT's are working great.

It's easy to test... a high amp device run on one circuit (e.g., typical vacuum cleaner). It should leave enough of a trace that you can run it on grid and then off battery to confirm the phases match up.

I do have the HVAC Load Control to stay on until about 50% SOC for now just playing around. That soft start I installed works perfect.