diy solar

diy solar

Finally, the start of my 25kw Ground Mount grid-tie system

Yeah, that looks like it would be a great option. I'm thinking a combo of fronius and SMAs Maybe two fronius and one SMA or one fronius and 3 SMA. I'm going to make some calls tomorrow to light a fire under these sales reps. You would think they would be quick to get back to someone that wants to spend $$$
 
Here is the data sheet on those. Are the bi-facial panels going to be more effort than they're worth? It sounds like they are more fragile as far as mounting goes and require special care when mounting.Capture.PNG
 

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Here is the data sheet on those. Are the bi-facial panels going to be more effort than they're worth? It sounds like they are more fragile as far as mounting goes and require special care when mounting.
I chose to not use bifacial even though we had a good setup for them. The snow shed off our barn roof would be behind them in the winter and I would use limestone screenings on the ground underneath them, which are concrete colored. So the reflection would be pretty good all year. The sales rep didn't actually try to talk me out of them but said he thought at this point in their evolution I'd be better off buying an extra mono facial panel if I needed more capacity. It's not clear how to calculate how much the increased production would be with bifacial and they have a higher up front cost, so it's harder to figure out if they're worth it. So in the end I decided to go with mono facial. I think in a few years there might be enough real world data available to do a better analysis. If I ever expand my system I'll look at them again.
 
I'm basically just looking at the cost of what he quoted. They're $220 for a 450W panel (doesn't include the underside's possible power production).
 
It's about the same price/W as the 325W ones he quoted me that were the Qcells. Should I be shooting for less/W on the panels?
 
I have been talking with bluesun solar, they make talesun panels. I can get 455W mono panels from them for $173 each + freight from CA state to WA state.
 
All I know is when I was putting together my small off-grid system in the end I was glad I went with higher rated panels. Putting 6 higher rated panels up instead of 10 lower wattage ones made a big difference to how hard the job was. It's just less stuff. Fewer panels, less railing, fewer clamps, fewer connectors.

I now have railing left over which can be used for another project. It also turned out the voltages of the higher rated panels suited my inverter better as well but that's not usually a concern with grid tied inverters which operate at much higher voltages than cheaper off-grid units.
 
Yeah. I'm definitely thinking the higher wattage panels because I would think I can get more out of a string as well and hopefully reduce the overall amount of high voltage DC runs back to the inverters (300-350')

That's also why I was thinking of going fronius because they have a higher working DC voltage for string input. I'm kind of thinking two fronius 15.5kw and one SMA Sunny Boy 7.7kw. That way I'll have the option to utilize the SPS plug if I wanted at some point.

Again, I'll have to see how the panels string numbers work out as well.

EDIT: Any opinions on BlueSun Solar?
 
Yeah. I'm definitely thinking the higher wattage panels because I would think I can get more out of a string as well and hopefully reduce the overall amount of high voltage DC runs back to the inverters (300-350')
I forgot about that benefit. With the 10 panel set up I was going to need to run two cables to the inverter, but with the 6 panel set up I only needed one cable. In my case I'm talking about an inverter with a really low Voc limit and a small sweet spot of operational voltage so panel choice really makes a big difference. Much less of an issue with a Fronius.

I figure in your case the more power you can get for the size of array infrastructure you have the better.
 
Agreed. I may crunch some numbers this weekend on both panels for the fronius and SMA inverts. I'll post up my numbers. It helps get input and also helps me keep track of things as well.
 
Do the Fronius implement frequency-watts?
If you would ever want battery backup, I suggest having GT PV which is compatible with control by AC coupling frequency shift. (For use with Sunny Island, or other)
 
Yes.
e.g.:
Wow, had no idea such a thing existed. I have a Fronius Primo, so I could do this. We have a 10 year old whole house generator with an ATS, I think if it failed I would seriously look at this kind of solution. My only issue is that if the grid goes down in the winter, we use a fair bit of power to heat the water for livestock and the highest demand is at night when it's coldest. I guess if the batteries can't carry the heaters long enough the fallback would be a portable generator and plug the heaters into the generator.
 
How does design life of whole house generator compare to grid outage rate and desired lifespan? Some are intended for fairly low total hours, others for much heavier usage.
You could look into battery inverter system now, set up something with grid pass-thru and automatic generator start. Generator would get less use, could extend its life.
My SMA Sunny Island has only one AC input, would require external transfer switch for generator. But you have that already.
Other battery inverters may have two AC inputs and could switch to generator automatically.

Lately I've seen a 2x Sunny Island box on eBay for $7000 (previously they were listed at lower prices.) Possibly that would meet your needs, and you could make an offer. Or maybe something with less power meets your needs at lower price.
Battery is likely a major expense, unless very small.
Make sure your exact Fronius model does support frequency-watts. I found UL-1741 SA among the features listed, but didn't dig deep enough to confirm frequency-watts or not.
 
How does design life of whole house generator compare to grid outage rate and desired lifespan? Some are intended for fairly low total hours, others for much heavier usage.
You could look into battery inverter system now, set up something with grid pass-thru and automatic generator start. Generator would get less use, could extend its life.
My SMA Sunny Island has only one AC input, would require external transfer switch for generator. But you have that already.
Other battery inverters may have two AC inputs and could switch to generator automatically.

Lately I've seen a 2x Sunny Island box on eBay for $7000 (previously they were listed at lower prices.) Possibly that would meet your needs, and you could make an offer. Or maybe something with less power meets your needs at lower price.
Battery is likely a major expense, unless very small.
Make sure your exact Fronius model does support frequency-watts. I found UL-1741 SA among the features listed, but didn't dig deep enough to confirm frequency-watts or not.
Do you have a preferred string calculator online to use? The last time I did calculations I did them by hand. I don't mind that, but it does take a bit of time.
 
How does design life of whole house generator compare to grid outage rate and desired lifespan? Some are intended for fairly low total hours, others for much heavier usage.
Mine claims 3000 hour, 25 year lifespan. It will never see max hours, it will become unserviceable because parts are so expensive. They had to replace the system board under warranty, that was $800 for the part, not counting labor. Now that it's out of warranty and 10 years old, I would never put $1000 into repairs.
You could look into battery inverter system now, set up something with grid pass-thru and automatic generator start. Generator would get less use, could extend its life.
My SMA Sunny Island has only one AC input, would require external transfer switch for generator. But you have that already.
Other battery inverters may have two AC inputs and could switch to generator automatically.
Yes that might be reasonable first step.
Lately I've seen a 2x Sunny Island box on eBay for $7000 (previously they were listed at lower prices.) Possibly that would meet your needs, and you could make an offer. Or maybe something with less power meets your needs at lower price.
Battery is likely a major expense, unless very small.
Yes, battery is the big issue. Livestock heaters are 3kW, they run about 50% duty cycle on "typical" winter day but on a cold windy night can run 100%, which means I would need 35-40kWh of battery to make it through one night which isn't cheap or compact. And it's cold enough here that batteries need to at least be in a garage or equipment room that's above freezing.
Make sure your exact Fronius model does support frequency-watts. I found UL-1741 SA among the features listed, but didn't dig deep enough to confirm frequency-watts or not.
I went to their web page, it says it does as long as firmware is above certain level.
 
Woah! That's pretty awesome. saves a boat load of time. I may end up creating a spreadsheet version so any inverter could be used.
 
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