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Fire Safety of Electrical Enclosures

asot550

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Sep 3, 2020
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This isn't specifically for the solar portion of the system, but this seems the best place to discuss fire safety of electrical enclosures in vehicle mounted systems.

I'm starting to plan out how I want to design my electrical enclosure to be as fire safe as possible and it's led me down a ton of rabbit holes.

One of the common methods to add fire protection capabilities is to use cement board as a fire stop. The issue is that it's hard to work with, and basically impossible to mount electronics to. I think what I've come up with is to make a cement board sandwich of 1/4 in plywood, 1/4 in cement board, and then another layer of 1/4 inch plywood. I'm thinking this will give me enough meat for screws to bite into to securely mount my components. Thoughts? The other option is a 1/2 inch plywood faced with 1/4 inch cement board.

The next challenge I'm having is that you can't just make your panel wall fire-resistant, there's plenty of flammable stuff all around your electronics. An easy solution is to make an enclosed box for everything, but now you have the issue of getting wires in/out, as well as ventilation to your sealed box. All of those openings are easy paths for flame and heat to escape.

Trying to solve that problem has led me down the path of intumescent fire protection. Intumescent fire materials are pretty amazing, they expand when exposed to fire and seal off cavities, graphite is a common material. I'm pretty sure you could buy some putty pads that are used around residential electrical junction boxes, poke some holes for your wiring, and then route them into the box. That should give you a good seal in the event of a fire.

The next problem was the ventilation holes though. At first I was looking at pipe collars designed for pvc pipe that are readily available and fairly cheap. You could use pvc for your ventilation hole and then install a pipe collar around it. These products are designed to physically crush the PVC to seal off the penetration though, and looking at some tests on youtube
it seems like it can take several (into the tens of) minutes before the hole is sealed which doesn't seem acceptable to me.

Then I stumbled on Vulcan Vents, which are a new product designed for wildfire protection. https://www.vulcanvents.com/vents/soffit-vents/ They use an intumescent honeycomb mesh to seal off airflow when exposed to fire. I think these are perfect solution for the problem, though they're not widely available yet. The biggest issue is getting the right size to match the box and any ventilation fans.

Does anyone see any flaws in my rough plan?
 
They make fireblock caulk stuff to seal conduit or holes where wire is.

With fire protection I wouldn't want ventilation but alternative ways to cool like large heatsinks and or device AC. You can't have a fire without air.

Or at this point just get a fire suppression system for the area and call it a day.
 
I'm not aware of any fire suppression system that is feasible to implement in a mobile application that can put out a runaway lithium battery failure, do they exist?
 
I'm not aware of any fire suppression system that is feasible to implement in a mobile application that can put out a runaway lithium battery failure, do they exist?
You might want to look at some fire suppression systems used in server rack batteries but that will probably be battery chemistry specific. Once a cell goes into runaway it produces its own oxygen and toxic gasses.
YouTube channel “Auto Expert John Cadogan” has several in-depth videos on the subject. Primarily applied as EV fires but the process is the same just on a smaller scale.
Fuse your wiring well and choose your chemistry wisely.
I am at the same stage of building something for my truck. The more I learn about thermal runaway, the more I think a jettison system is needed for the battery pack.
I might be over thinking it.
 
any other alternatives besides drywall or cement board? neither one sounds like a good idea in a bouncy vehicle. any kind of fire proof/resistant laminate to put on wood? obviously metal but i don't want to mount all my electronics onto metal. what about a layer of graphite? never mind graphite conducts electricity
 
They make fireblock caulk stuff to seal conduit or holes where wire is.

With fire protection I wouldn't want ventilation but alternative ways to cool like large heatsinks and or device AC. You can't have a fire without air.

Or at this point just get a fire suppression system for the area and call it a day.
You may want to read the specs on many of those "fire block" insulations, especially the expanding foam style. The name is a bit misleading.
 
any other alternatives besides drywall or cement board? neither one sounds like a good idea in a bouncy vehicle. any kind of fire proof/resistant laminate to put on wood? obviously metal but i don't want to mount all my electronics onto metal. what about a layer of graphite? never mind graphite conducts electricity
how about fiberglass?
 
I've looked at this a lot, and I'm wondering about Aircrete.
Youtube "Honey Do Carpenter" and watch his intro to aircrete, its resistance to thermal transfer is remarkable, its weight acceptable, its weak point seems to be that its brittle perhaps introduction of chopped fiber would overcome that... A box made of aircrete with a triple wall chimney for ventilation, seems to be viable ( and if you'll just send me a truckload of Lithiums I'll put it to the test!!)
 
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You're probably overthinking this. Just build and design your system properly, along with regular inspections, and fire should be a remote concern.
 
This isn't specifically for the solar portion of the system, but this seems the best place to discuss fire safety of electrical enclosures in vehicle mounted systems.

I'm starting to plan out how I want to design my electrical enclosure to be as fire safe as possible and it's led me down a ton of rabbit holes.

One of the common methods to add fire protection capabilities is to use cement board as a fire stop. The issue is that it's hard to work with, and basically impossible to mount electronics to. I think what I've come up with is to make a cement board sandwich of 1/4 in plywood, 1/4 in cement board, and then another layer of 1/4 inch plywood. I'm thinking this will give me enough meat for screws to bite into to securely mount my components. Thoughts? The other option is a 1/2 inch plywood faced with 1/4 inch cement board.

The next challenge I'm having is that you can't just make your panel wall fire-resistant, there's plenty of flammable stuff all around your electronics. An easy solution is to make an enclosed box for everything, but now you have the issue of getting wires in/out, as well as ventilation to your sealed box. All of those openings are easy paths for flame and heat to escape.

Trying to solve that problem has led me down the path of intumescent fire protection. Intumescent fire materials are pretty amazing, they expand when exposed to fire and seal off cavities, graphite is a common material. I'm pretty sure you could buy some putty pads that are used around residential electrical junction boxes, poke some holes for your wiring, and then route them into the box. That should give you a good seal in the event of a fire.

The next problem was the ventilation holes though. At first I was looking at pipe collars designed for pvc pipe that are readily available and fairly cheap. You could use pvc for your ventilation hole and then install a pipe collar around it. These products are designed to physically crush the PVC to seal off the penetration though, and looking at some tests on youtube
it seems like it can take several (into the tens of) minutes before the hole is sealed which doesn't seem acceptable to me.

Then I stumbled on Vulcan Vents, which are a new product designed for wildfire protection. https://www.vulcanvents.com/vents/soffit-vents/ They use an intumescent honeycomb mesh to seal off airflow when exposed to fire. I think these are perfect solution for the problem, though they're not widely available yet. The biggest issue is getting the right size to match the box and any ventilation fans.

Does anyone see any flaws in my rough plan?
This is an issue that has suddenly become very real for me today. Having lived 24/7 for 8 yrs in my bus, solar self sufficient, today we had a fire in the locker under the bus housing all the equipment. My 7 yr old MPPT (I have a newer one as well) had caught on fire. It took 2 dry powder extinguishers to put it out, then water to cool the roof (bus floor) to stop it reigniting. 4 hrs of work, rewiring and safety checking. But it could have cost us our lives.

Looks like the MPPT self ignited through some fault.

I am now wondering exactly what I can do to fireproof the enclosure.
 

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Foil
2 sheets 1/4 plywood faced with metal foil material
cut 2 pieces turn then BOTH foil inside and nail / screw them together

Chemical ...
look at hardware store for chemical treated plywood

rock-wool in any holes.
fire proofing..... is mostly to slowdown a fires ability to progress.
fire doors etc are rated to slow down fires progression for x amount of time
you can even find fire retardant chemicals/paints to soak into your existing wood panels.

Brittle cement board no place for it in a RV / mobile setup
 
This is an issue that has suddenly become very real for me today. Having lived 24/7 for 8 yrs in my bus, solar self sufficient, today we had a fire in the locker under the bus housing all the equipment. My 7 yr old MPPT (I have a newer one as well) had caught on fire. It took 2 dry powder extinguishers to put it out, then water to cool the roof (bus floor) to stop it reigniting. 4 hrs of work, rewiring and safety checking. But it could have cost us our lives.

Looks like the MPPT self ignited through some fault.

I am now wondering exactly what I can do to fireproof the enclosure.
That sucks! Glad everyone is OK. Nice job putting it out.
 
I've been looking into this recently as well for the battery/inverter building we're building. I think a CO2 automatic fire suppression system is probably the way to go, which is basically a CO2 fire extinguisher hooked up to a smoke/fire detector to automatically extinguish when detected. May be a direction to look in. I don't just want it contained. I want it put out so it doesn't spread or do further damage and save what equipment can be saved. I'm not always there.

Something like this: https://defender.com/en_us/fireboy-xintex-manual-automatic-fixed-fire-extinguishing-system
 
Looks like the MPPT self ignited through some fault.

I'm thinking backfeed from battery. What over-current protection was there?
Shorted transistors could put current though inductor.

Although, it could dissipate power from PV panels, depending on the resistance that presented.

Mostly it is battery fires people might encounter. I don't think those are terribly hot. Might melt aluminum, not steel. So I think a steel sheet-metal enclosure with suitable gaskets (silicone?) would contain the fire and duct it outside. Metal would get hot enough to ignite things, so need an insulating and/or sheetrock layer.

Electrical fires are stopped by removing power. "FR4" PC boards, stands for "Fire Resistant", doesn't burn except with external heat applied.
 
I've been looking into this recently as well for the battery/inverter building we're building. I think a CO2 automatic fire suppression system is probably the way to go, which is basically a CO2 fire extinguisher hooked up to a smoke/fire detector to automatically extinguish when detected. May be a direction to look in. I don't just want it contained. I want it put out so it doesn't spread or do further damage and save what equipment can be saved. I'm not always there.

Something like this: https://defender.com/en_us/fireboy-xintex-manual-automatic-fixed-fire-extinguishing-system
Holy crap. You must have deep pockets! God bless you sir!
 
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