LTO battery fire

[Sanwizard]

The sun does pretty well

... but that's nuclear, not burning.

AFAIAA burning requires an oxidant, but that doesn't have to be oxygen.

An interesting test would be to puncture a LiFePo4 cell in a vacuum to see what happens. Hey, lets get those astronauts on the space station do a test! That would be a cool space walk, carry a battery cell outside and stick an icepick in it.

 

[MisterSandals]

Fun with numbers (redundant, i know!)

LiFePO4

Lithium Atomic mass: 6.9410 u
Iron (Fe) Atomic mass: 55.845 u
Phosphorous Atomic mass: 30.974 u
Oxygen Atomic mass:15.999 u (x4)

Total per molecule 160.7 u
(16 x 4) / 160.7 = .398 (40% oxygen by weight!)

---------------------
Errata:

LiFePo4
lithium iron polonium battery would likely be about (898.7 / 160.7) = 5.6x heavier than LiFePO4
Po Atomic mass:209 u

 

[SamDeleted]

LiFePO4

Are you saying the 'O' in LiFePO4 stands for oxygen.... ?

 

[MisterSandals]

Are you saying the 'O' in LiFePO4 stands for oxygen.... ?

Yes
O4 means 4 of them.

 

[SparkyJJO]

The oxygen is bonded to Phosphorus to make Phosphate (PO4). If I am not mistaken, the reason it is considered a stable chemistry is phosphate doesn't really burn and it won't release the oxygen when heated up (actually phosphorus will bond with oxygen when it is burned, so there ya go).

I'm not bothered to have my LFP in my basement. If it burns, it'll stink up and smoke up the place (yuck, maybe should put some kind of ventilation in place just in case) but it won't catch the house because aside from the compression box the cells are in there is nothing else flammable around it.

 

[Hedges]

However, the gasses it release are flammable. If ignited by a spark (like Dexter's second punch with a metal bar), could then ignite wood structure. Unless finished basement with everything is sheetrocked and that provides sufficient protection.

 

[SeaGal]

An interesting test would be to puncture a LiFePo4 cell in a vacuum to see what happens. Hey, lets get those astronauts on the space station do a test! That would be a cool space walk, carry a battery cell outside and stick an icepick in it.

Is that Will's next YouTube video?

 

[SeaGal]

LiFePO4

Lithium Atomic mass: 6.9410 u
Iron (Fe) Atomic mass: 55.845 u
Phosphorous Atomic mass: 30.974 u
Oxygen Atomic mass:15.999 u (x4)

My brain hurts... if Lithium is lighter than air, why don't we mine it from the atmosphere? (genuine question!!)

 

[SparkyJJO]

However, the gasses it release are flammable. If ignited by a spark (like Dexter's second punch with a metal bar), could then ignite wood structure. Unless finished basement with everything is sheetrocked and that provides sufficient protection.

In my case it is an unfinished basement so it is surrounded by concrete and block.

My brain hurts... if Lithium is lighter than air, why don't we mine it from the atmosphere? (genuine question!!)

Well I suppose one atom would float. But typically lithium is in larger chunks in a solid state.

 

[summit]

What do you have?

sorry, been away, it's 48v LiFe, re-purposed from old Enginer packs for the Prius. They are in metal containers, but certainly not UL by a long stretch.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

sorry, been away, it's 48v LiFe, re-purposed from old Enginer packs for the Prius. They are in metal containers, but certainly not UL by a long stretch.

Have you tested the cells? The have to be going on at least a decade old, and if they ever landed in a car, they've likely been horribly abused.

I have a collection of CALB cells from a "10kWh" Gen2 Plug-in-Prius pack... they've been hammered to shit.

There's a reason all of those outfits went out of business.

 

[summit]

they are only being used as outage backup, so very minimum cycling and narrow 30-75% depth-of-charge range

 

[sunshine_eggo]

they are only being used as outage backup, so very minimum cycling and narrow 30-75% depth-of-charge range

30-75% based on your capacity tests?

 

[Ellcon123]

My brain hurts... if Lithium is lighter than air, why don't we mine it from the atmosphere? (genuine question!!)

Most elements are not in their natural state but bound up with other elements in compounds. Hence why most things are in the ground. Ore rich in Lithium is mined and then the Lithium extracted through chemical processes.

Plus Oxygen is not air. Air is mostly Nitrogen, then Oxygen plus other elements and compounds/molecules in smaller quantities.

 

[Quattrohead]

My brain hurts... if Lithium is lighter than air, why don't we mine it from the atmosphere? (genuine question!!)

And more to the point why do these batteries hurt you so much when you drop them on your foot LOL

 

[MisterSandals]

And more to the point why do these batteries hurt you so much when you drop them on your foot LOL

I recall someone once saying that "stupid is supposed to hurt".

 

[Checkthisout]

I recall someone once saying that "stupid is supposed to hurt".

This best explains why I'm in constant pain. ?

 

[Kenny_]

I recall someone once saying that "stupid is supposed to hurt".

If it did we wouldn't have the problems in the world we currently have.

 

[summit]

30-75% based on your capacity tests?

no, rough bulk voltage between 51.5v - 53.1v

 

[Dagoth Ur Does Solar]

Wow this thread was a doozy.

Can someone smarter than a smoothbrain like me tell me: those cell terminals and conductors look really damn close to that metal rack he has it sitting on... Would you guys build your packs like that? Serious question. I feel like if I was doing this I'd want some serious insulation. I feel like if I leaned into inspect that thing my jacket zipper might short out and kill me.

Also I'm not going to even comment on using alligator clips, what the hell, man.