Yet we still get residence destroying fires. Blown fuse is unlikely cause. Using water as last resort is cheap insurance against total loss. That or keep batteries outside.
Happened again, DIY battery fire
- Thread starter fmeili1
- Start date
Sure, but not due to thermal runaway, but due to electrolyte breakdown. That's why the device I linked to (which I guess something similar is in some rack mount batteries) is useful none the less. This does not preclude using water in case things go wrong beyond this.
fmeili1
Solar Enthusiast
I think the key point is monitoring each batteries temperatures and current (e.g. with SolarAssistant) and disconnect the batteries in case the values getting too high.
Thats one of the reasons why I've integrated the batteries/inverters into my smart home system. In case the values getting unexpected high, a smart home rule disconnects the batteries from the AIO's.
In case EG4-LL-S will be used, each battery can aslo be disconnected from each other.
This will cover a lot of possible problematic cases... but even this will not be 100%... but close.
Thats one of the reasons why I've integrated the batteries/inverters into my smart home system. In case the values getting unexpected high, a smart home rule disconnects the batteries from the AIO's.
In case EG4-LL-S will be used, each battery can aslo be disconnected from each other.
This will cover a lot of possible problematic cases... but even this will not be 100%... but close.
Brucey
Solar Wizard
The 18650 power walls are generally actually safer because they are fused per cell...
If it bothers them enough, put them in a shed. Problem solved. Best part is, we don't need a bunch of gov bloat to hold our hand and make us feel safe.
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Having to climate control a shed is a nuisance and extra cost for the extra equipment and power to run it not to mention construction of it in the first place.
I think it is safe enough in a basement with some proper precautions. No wooden boxes, use enclosed metal boxes. Proper short circuit protection and fusing. Don't use particle board.
I think it is safe enough in a basement with some proper precautions. No wooden boxes, use enclosed metal boxes. Proper short circuit protection and fusing. Don't use particle board.
Fusing does not make them safe. Think of all those Tesla fires.
DudeInMyrtleBeach
New Member
It wasn't in stock when I got mine. There's something about having over 3 gallons of gas/diesel mixture strapped to my back that just does not appeal to me. Unless the tank goes on sale, then all bets are off.
DudeInMyrtleBeach
New Member
This is why I like it here.
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2022
- Messages
- 19,587
Don't build houses out of wood.
It burns too.
It burns too.
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
Are these available for DIY purchase ? - ie to put inside a DIY battery pack?Likely a 'Condensed Aerosol Fire Extinguishing Device', like these:
Aerosol fire suppression system for new energy vehicles
Product type: S type Aerosol Fire Suppression system Model: QRR0.02GW/SHS-CN1 Rated dose: 0.02KG Protect area: 0.15 m³ Device Size: 90*140*15mm Start-up mode: Thermal self-start or Electric start Discharge Time: ≤5s Working Condition: Temp: -50℃—+90℃ Humidity: ≤95% N.W.: 410±10g Agent Validity...www.s-firefighting.com
SilverbackMP
Solar Addict
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- 992
Ban that shitty assed flexible gas pipe and go back to black iron pipe might be a good start.From some of the common stats online, it would seem to limit house fires we should ban Natural Gas, Smoking and Kitchens !!
I'd love to see some research showing the effectiveness of these small aerosol devices designed to be mounted within the battery. I bet they are very effective in achieving their design goal of getting various types of safety certifications passed for the pack.
Imagine a cell vents due to some internal manufacturing issue. It emits combustible vapour. Every single "big blue" cell I saw a datasheet of is in the tested for "no fire" on puncture/venting on its own. It needs an ignition source for the flammable fapour emitted to catch fire.
Most lithium cells have electrolytes based on ethylene carbonate or dimethyl carbonate. Both ignite in air at temperatures in excess of 400C (800F). So we need something that hot (or a spark) to cause fire. A melt fuse could be such a thing. We've learnt that and most recent builds on this site I see use T-class or NH type fuses which are enclosed in a ceramic container. So they shouldn't ignite anything.
One of the challenges not addressed in current battery pack designs is adjacent cell heating during another cell failure. Imagine we have cells sitting compressed one next to the other with fire resistant insulation i between (fr4 or textolite). When that one cell reaches 250C what happens to the others surrounding it? Anecdotal evidence from single cell venting events seems to suggest they're fine, but I'm not so sure.
Providing sufficient compression and thermal isolation between cells at the same time seems to be the next "safety innovation" in diy packs.
I wonder if there is some heat insulation we could use between cells that could survive the temperature and the pressure. Of course this would increase the cooling requirements of the pack. Any ideas what to use?
Imagine a cell vents due to some internal manufacturing issue. It emits combustible vapour. Every single "big blue" cell I saw a datasheet of is in the tested for "no fire" on puncture/venting on its own. It needs an ignition source for the flammable fapour emitted to catch fire.
Most lithium cells have electrolytes based on ethylene carbonate or dimethyl carbonate. Both ignite in air at temperatures in excess of 400C (800F). So we need something that hot (or a spark) to cause fire. A melt fuse could be such a thing. We've learnt that and most recent builds on this site I see use T-class or NH type fuses which are enclosed in a ceramic container. So they shouldn't ignite anything.
One of the challenges not addressed in current battery pack designs is adjacent cell heating during another cell failure. Imagine we have cells sitting compressed one next to the other with fire resistant insulation i between (fr4 or textolite). When that one cell reaches 250C what happens to the others surrounding it? Anecdotal evidence from single cell venting events seems to suggest they're fine, but I'm not so sure.
Providing sufficient compression and thermal isolation between cells at the same time seems to be the next "safety innovation" in diy packs.
I wonder if there is some heat insulation we could use between cells that could survive the temperature and the pressure. Of course this would increase the cooling requirements of the pack. Any ideas what to use?
wpns
Solar Joules are catch and release
OffGridForGood
Catch, make or grow everything you can.
What is the trigger that will initiate the aerosol device?
If it is heat, venting caused by over-voltage doesn't trigger it, unless ignition occurs?
timselectric
If I can do it, you can do it.
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- Feb 5, 2022
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- 19,587
There are no fire prevention devices that can be placed near a battery system that will keep solar panels from catching fire. (What this story actually was about)
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