FX600 VAWT with SUN-1000G2-WAL-H, not starting

[Swing]

Hi all,

Although I don't typically like small wind turbines, I live in a windy place and thought to test one out.
I bought a second hand FX-600 Wind turbine which seems at first to work well.
It is a sturdy unit and I actually believe the 600 Watt can be achieved.

Now, I borrowed one of the (in)famous blue grid-tie wind inverters, in this case the SUN-1000G2-WAL-H, to test it.
The H meaning that the voltage input is from 45 to 90v DC

The FX-600 is rated at 48 volts.
Currently it is only 2 meters above ground, but the wind is right at it, there is just a field next to it, so it gets some good wind.
The goal is to put it up much higher of course.
If I run the FX-600 in the wind without anything connected (so no braking) it actually achieves very high speeds.
I measured the voltage with multimeter (in AC setting) and got voltages such as 75v or even 90v. The 90v was measured at an uncomfortable high speed.
It would be a good voltage to turn on the dump load.

So, at first it seems a good match with the 45v-90v DC input side of the SUN-1000G2-WAL-H. There is also a 22v-65v input version.

However, when connected it doesn't reach the starting voltage. The best it gets is something into the low 40s.
I changed the power curve in the inverter so that the 48v and 52v fields actually ask zero amps, and it starts really light on 56v.
But that didn't have any effect either.
As soon as I disconnect it, it starts to do massive speeds again, very easy.
In other words, that must mean the inverter is putting on too much resistance/load for it get higher, even though it hasn't reached the starting voltage yet?
That seems strange to me.
There is no voltage accross the dumpload, so it isn't (accidentally) enabling the dumpload, and these aren't even enabled in the menu.
It is nicely stopped when I cut the AC power, the wind turbine comes to a halt.

I think the wind turbine is this one (48v version!):
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/33018367542.html

Quite some info, but I don't see any data on where this power curve should be in terms of RPMs and volts?
Should it actually make quite some RPM (and thus voltage) before getting any power?
Or is the 45v input/start limit just to high?
Even if it is high, I would expect it to at least sometimes cross it, generate a bit and then stop.

I am hessitant to just buy the 22v-65v version of this inverter, because they aren't cheap.
And it might not work as well.

The powercurve in meters/second shows the power curve with wind speed, but it would be nice to have those kind of graphs with voltage and RPM as well.

Edit: I read now from my own link that start-up RPM is 250 RPM. So about 4 revs per second.
I haven't been able to measure the RPM, but I think that is already getting close to 40v at that RPM?
I just sticks at around 44v max, and doesn't continue.
I would expect at least a little bit of generation power, since it is getting enough wind to at least make something under 100 Watt

 

[sunshine_eggo]

It is a sturdy unit and I actually believe the 600 Watt can be achieved.

Only if it's REALLY windy. The rating has nothing to do with how much you get.

Wind Resources

Rule 1: The power rating of a wind turbine has NOTHING to do with the amount of power you'll get. The amount of power you get depends on the size and efficiency of your wind turbine, and your wind. The power rating of a wind turbine is just its...

diysolarforum.com

Wind Turbine Calculator [HAWT and VAWT]

The wind turbine calculator finds the power output, efficiency, RPM, torque, and revenue of a wind turbine (either HAVT or VAWT).

www.omnicalculator.com

Picked a stiff wind speed of 10m/s:



140W max output

compared to:

Where they're claiming nearly 600W.

IMHO, you're wasting your time. There just isn't enough energy in 0.8m^2 of wind to provide meaningful power until the winds get pretty ugly. at about 16.5m/s, you might see 600W at that level.

 

[Swing]

@sunshine_eggo
The discussion is not if this is useful. I'm perfectly fine with this not being useful, it would only prove my theory.
The question is not if there is enough wind, the question is if my setup is okay.

I am not saying it should do 600 Watts now, I mean that it could achieve that as a max power out in the best possible circumstances. You can buy the same unit advertised with 3000 Watt which is of course a big lie.
Where I live, not to far from the coast, the average wind speed at 10 meters altitude is 6 meters per second accross the year.
And in fact there are many days where it should be around the 8 tot 10 meters per second level.
I only need around 150 Watts to keep my very well insulated house warm through the heatpump.

I do have a 5 kilowatt solar array and 12kWh storage at 48v.
I can add some solar panels, but that's barely going to make me more self-sufficient, as the sun will still take a long time to get on my solar panels in the winter.

Actually the days that we have this week, just like I noticed in some earlier winters, have sufficient wind power to keep my house warm.
I might need something like an IstaBreeze i1500 or 2000 for that in the end, that is fine. But right now I am getting aqcuinted with a lower budget second hand stuff.

So the questions is, do I have the right inverter for the job?
If so, then maybe I really need to stick it into the air to see some generation, and the problem isn't the setup.
However, it is hard to verify if I don't really know the voltage and RPM that go with the powerband of this thing.

 

[OzSolar]

I only need around 150 Watts to keep my very well insulated house warm through the heatpump.

That's a different way of saying it than I'm used to. I assume that's the 24 hour average? Perhaps you are saying it takes 3.6kWh/day to heat your house?

The question is not if there is enough wind, the question is if my setup is okay.

You're setup is not OK. You cannot put a standard solar inverter on a wind turbine.

 

[Swing]

That's a different way of saying it than I'm used to. I assume that's the 24 hour average? Perhaps you are saying it takes 3.6kWh/day to heat your house?

You can express heat loss of a house in Watts. In my case it can be 600W to 1000W heat loss, of course depending on outside temperature.
Given the efficient heat pump it makes an average 750W heat of 150W electrical power.

This tiny turbine might just do that, of course in windy days.

You're setup is not OK. You cannot put a standard solar inverter on a wind turbine.

This IS the wind turbine version. It has all kinds of functions for wind turbines such as dump load and power curve settings.
There are multiple versions of this device, the ones with W in the name are wind versions.

They are often used with wind turbines.

 

[OzSolar]

You can express heat loss of a house in Watts. In my case it can be 600W to 1000W heat loss, of course depending on outside temperature.
Given the efficient heat pump it makes an average 750W heat of 150W electrical power.

Is that not what I said? Instantaneous heat loss is watts (power) but energy (kWh) is what one must use when for sizing the generation sources of thier system. It sounds like you aren't currently measuring the energy usage of your heat pump. Assuming the smallest possible wattage for daily energy (kWH) calculations will result in problems.

They are often used with wind turbines.

If that is this case then you should reach out to the manufacturer, certainly they are the best resource. It is clear no here is qualified to give you the answer you want. You should also try to find a single example of successful VAWT installation while you're at it.

 

[Swing]

Is that not what I said? Instantaneous heat loss is watts (power) but energy (kWh) is what one must use when for sizing the generation sources of thier system. It sounds like you aren't currently measuring the energy usage of your heat pump. Assuming the smallest possible wattage for daily energy (kWH) calculations will result in problems.

For the total picture it is good to think in kWhs consumed and produced to match it out.
Right now I know what I am missing in the winter.
But yeah, I already know this tiny turbine won't make up for all of that.
What it could do, is just make up for my heating on windy days.
There will be days that heating is needed and no wind will be there.

But I have the experience with this house that there are enough windy days when there is clearly enough energy in the air to keep my house warm, for which I mentioned the 150 Watt as a goal.

The VAWT won't do that much. I rather have something like an IstaBreeze i1500 or i2000.
But I just want to see what this one can do, all for lower cost. And than extrapolate that to one of the more expensive bigger wind turbines.
Conclusion might be predictable, that it is not worth it.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

The VAWT won't do that much. I rather have something like an IstaBreeze i1500 or i2000.

Oh my lord... that company is founded completely on lies. Wholly fabricated performance numbers that require a major violation of physics to achieve:

https://www.altinelenerji.net/performance-graphics/i1500-wind-turbine-performance-chart.pdf

1.10m rotor radius
8m/s wind:

340W of available power before system inefficiencies, yet they claim 600W.

 

[Swing]

Oh my lord... that company is founded completely on lies. Wholly fabricated performance numbers that require a major violation of physics to achieve:

https://www.altinelenerji.net/performance-graphics/i1500-wind-turbine-performance-chart.pdf

1.10m rotor radius
8m/s wind:

340W of available power before system inefficiencies, yet they claim 600W.

Yes I think they are off.

But, at least it is an affordable wind turbine that can actually generate the 1500 or 2000 Watts in ideal conditions.
As people have tested and shown on Youtube.

It is much better than the other ridiculous claims made by other cheap manufacturers. Because at least that there is some proof that they work.

With the calculator you at least get a realistic idea before you buy anything. And then you need something that works to some degree. It isn't perfect, but you can get to something (if you live in a suitable place).

 

[Swing]

In the meantime I found out that you can boot these blue inverters with the top two buttons held, you get into a firmware menu.
In that menu, you can let it be anything (1000W or 2000W version, sun or wind). Of course some of these won't work because of different physical connections.
But more importantly, you can change it to the 22-65v setting.

I will test again tomorrow with some wind. Right now with the new setting and manually spinning it, I see the same kind of behavior as yesterday, it gets somewhat stuck at a certain voltage level, but this time this is between 20 and 25v.
We will see tomorrow if it can generate anything at all, in the new voltage window.