Cheap Horizontal Wind Turbine/MPPT 1 Year Results

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Fitting day for the 1 year anniversary of the MPPT test.

The goal of said test was to determine with lazy scientific methodology if there was an advantage to allowing the turbine to gain inertia without the constant load of the 24v applied voltage but rather to let the charge controller determine the input voltage and load the turbine accordingly. It does function as expected, often allowing the turbine to reach over 90 volts of the 150V max input of the CC with steady winds keeping it around 32V. The laziness on my part is mostly due to budget constraints as it would have been nice to have a second unmodified control unit onsite as a comparison. Also, the CC has only 10 day internal logging, so there's that.
Before connecting the MPPT charge controller I was running directly out of the rectifier to the + and - bus bars for a couple of years with this turbine. The highest output I have witnessed has been 254 watts. That was not changed significantly by the addition of the MPPT.

The turbine is a 1 meter-3 blade rated at 400(chinesium) watts mounted around 14 ft. AGL. NWS reports my average wind speeds @ 6mph. Turbulence isn't as much of an issue here in the desert as in other areas.
There is no dedicated dumpload as I use more power than it can produce (mini split heatpump running constantly and 20 gallon electric water heater set to turn on at >27.5V system voltage). The CC is set to 28V at which point it removes the load and allows the turbine to freewheel.
The pics are from 02-10-23, 04-08-23, and today.



Final annual output will hit 100kwh today as it is supposed to be VERY windy for the next two days. giving me and "average" (defined as sporadic and unreliable) daily output of 274wh. Some of which is when it's cloudy and my 8kwh of panels are operating at 10% and some of which are at night.
Grid-tie numbers with a microinverter would be interesting.

 

[OzSolar]

Thank you for the update!!

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Thank you for the update!!

No problem. The previous year with the standard connection it netted around 65 kwh. I strongly suspect the MPPT made a substantial difference. Then again, maybe it was just more windy this time. Better data needed.

 

[Crowz]

I don't know if I'm reading all of this right but one of my 4 panel setups made .4 kwh yesterday during full on thunderstorms and rain and very dark outside all day.

What I'm trying to grasp is why the turbine with that output. Is it just because you like watching it spin?

I know that sounds like I'm talking bad about it and all and I'm not. I was interested in trying a wind turbine out at some point but unless you have killer winds it just doesn't seem worth it to me or am I missing something?

 

[Zwy]

I agree, it doesn't seem worth the effort for 100Kwh per year. I have considered wind again after this brutal winter with no sun. The wind has blown at least 10 to 20mph most days here while the sun is hidden the last 4 weeks.

With the 30W production shown in the photos after 24 hours it would be about 0.75Kwh for a day. Not worth the effort.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

I don't know if I'm reading all of this right but one of my 4 panel setups made .4 kwh yesterday during full on thunderstorms and rain and very dark outside all day.

What I'm trying to grasp is why the turbine with that output. Is it just because you like watching it spin?

I know that sounds like I'm talking bad about it and all and I'm not. I was interested in trying a wind turbine out at some point but unless you have killer winds it just doesn't seem worth it to me or am I missing something?

Lol. I liked watching it spin the first couple of days.
To preface I try to see things the way they are and avoid confirmation bias. Just reporting real long-term data. You can make your own decisions from there. No kool-aid dispenser here.
The why: When I bought it in 2019 or 2020, I believed it would, at some point produce the advertised output of 400 watts. At that time, I only had 4-300 watt panels. Now I have 32- 230 watt panels. So it's a slight supplement.
However, I am entirely offgrid, which is a different universe that most forum users here. If I don't make energy I don't have energy. One can't comprehend this until they live it for a few years every day. Every watt is fuel, maintenance, and wear on the gas generator.
The wind/solar comparison seems a false dichotomy, apples to oranges. But to look at your 4 panels example, one of your panels is equal to one turbine in energy potential so you produced 100 wh in 24 hrs on a stormy day. The turbine produced 1800 wh that same stormy day, but obviously not the clear winner on average annual output. However, stormy, cloudy days often come with strong winds so you may get power when you need it most.
In summation: it cost $130 (about the price of one 100w panel) Both turbines and panels need mounting hardware, CCs, inverters, batteries so all that is a wash. ROI is a tricky thing when you value Mr. Coffee doing his job in the morning.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

I agree, it doesn't seem worth the effort for 100Kwh per year. I have considered wind again after this brutal winter with no sun. The wind has blown at least 10 to 20mph most days here while the sun is hidden the last 4 weeks.

With the 30W production shown in the photos after 24 hours it would be about 0.75Kwh for a day. Not worth the effort.

That is a curious take on the subject. Why would you chose to concentrate on the 30 watt photo (NOT photos) when the data is there? Some days there is absolutely zero output. Would you like to see the one from two days ago where it produced 1800 wh?

 

[Steve_S]

Out of curiosity, what make/model of turbine is that ?
Do you have a Link ? Would be nice to see it's specs & details for comparison purposes.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Out of curiosity, what make/model of turbine is that ?
Do you have a Link ? Would be nice to see it's specs & details for comparison purposes.

I'll try to find it in my amazon order history. The pertinent specs are in the original post. Other than the wildly exaggerated output claims, they are all pretty much the same.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Out of curiosity, what make/model of turbine is that ?
Do you have a Link ? Would be nice to see it's specs & details for comparison purposes.

 

[Zwy]

That is a curious take on the subject. Why would you chose to concentrate on the 30 watt photo (NOT photos) when the data is there? Some days there is absolutely zero output. Would you like to see the one from two days ago where it produced 1800 wh?

1.8Kwh won't get me far running the propane furnace. It might get me thru running circulators and gasification wood boiler with radiant infloor which is the direction I'm moving to.

Today is blowing snow 30 to 40 mph, wind maybe too strong for many small wind generators. I can't see the 600 foot ones less than 2 miles from here if those are spinning. My brother runs a 17.5Kw Jacobs on his acreage, he does state the nice thing is he might still get power on cloudy days. Right now I'm getting 1.5Kw to 2 Kw from solar so in an hour I'd exceed that 1.8Kwh.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

1.8Kwh won't get me far running the propane furnace. It might get me thru running circulators and gasification wood boiler with radiant infloor which is the direction I'm moving to.

Today is blowing snow 30 to 40 mph, wind maybe too strong for many small wind generators. I can't see the 600 foot ones less than 2 miles from here if those are spinning. My brother runs a 17.5Kw Jacobs on his acreage, he does state the nice thing is he might still get power on cloudy days. Right now I'm getting 1.5Kw to 2 Kw from solar so in an hour I'd exceed that 1.8Kwh.

To be clear, I am not proposing wind as a replacement for solar. I can tell you the turbine is advertised as able to withstand 100mph. Sustained winds here when I posted were well above 35 and gusting to 60. My area made national news last spring with sustained winds above 80mph. The turbine is still there.?. I will likely invest in a "real" rated turbine in the 1-3kwh range. 17.5 kwh is a monster.

 

[OzSolar]

What turbine are you thinking about getting?

I would assume anyone who posts thier wind turbine's data and is still talking about continuing to do wind is clearly in it for fun.

Side note: kW = power kWh = energy

kW = power kWh = energy EG: 10kW of solar on a perfect day at the perfect angle can make 10kWh/per hour.

This threads reminds me of a funny saying we used have around here. "the only wind turbines that work are the ones that don't have data logging".

In all cases (residential scale) solar will make far more kWh for the buck than wind but it will never be as cool!

Just for fun I dropped a 400w panel into PVWatts. It even averages over 1 kWh per day on the worst months. A 400 watt solar panel will "blow" away a 400 watt wind turbines annual energy (kWh) production.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

What turbine are you thinking about getting?

I would assume anyone who posts thier wind turbine's data and is still talking about continuing to do wind is clearly in it for fun.

Side note: kW = power kWh = energy

kW = power kWh = energy EG: 10kW of solar on a perfect day at the perfect angle can make 10kWh/per hour.

This threads reminds me of a funny saying we used have around here. "the only wind turbines that work are the ones that don't have data logging".

In all cases (residential scale) solar will make far more kWh for the buck than wind but it will never be as cool!

Just for fun I dropped a 400w panel into PVWatts. It even averages over 1 kWh per day on the worst months. A 400 watt solar panel will "blow" away a 400 watt wind turbines annual energy (kWh) production.



View attachment 188725

You may have missed my reply to Crowz. I think the logic and math there is sound. A $130 dollar investment netted 100kwh over the year. So at minimum, you have to compare a comparable priced panel, no?
I have looked at Hurricane wind products in the past. They had a true 1kw unit 8' blades or so for around $1100.

 

[OzSolar]

You may have missed my reply to Crowz. I think the logic and math there is sound. A $130 dollar investment netted 100kwh over the year. So at minimum, you have to compare a comparable priced panel, no?
I have looked at Hurricane wind products in the past. They had a true 1kw unit 8' blades or so for around $1100.

Oh my, I thought you were joking. It looks like we are using different math because there's no way small wind remotely compares to solar by my math.

To compare, I'd start with that there's an almost infinite selection of solar panels in the 400 watt range for 50 cents/watt or less. So ~$200 easily gets' you ~600 kWh/year or more for at least 20 years. (600 is 6x's more than 100 by my math)

Then I'd probably want to talk about that AFAIK there's no such thing as a 400w $130 wind turbine, even if there was you still have to come up with a tower, controller and wire in-between.

Continuing to compare, let's talk about how reliable solar will be day after day, all year long, while there is absolutely no predicting when a small wind turbine will make power.

If you're lucky, your turbine will get you 100 kWh/yr for a few more years before it totally shells out. By the way, I'll be glad to eat those word a few years from now if I'm wrong. Trust me, I really want small wind to work but I've been around for a long time and it never does. Few have tried harder to make it work than me.

Bottom line for comparison: Wind might get you total of 300 kWh for 3 years vs. solar which will get you get a minimum of 12,000 kWh of generation over at least 20 years.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Oh my, I thought you were joking

Of course I'm not joking. I'm discussing. The wind is blowing 15mph as we speak. Gusting to 21. Bet those off-grid folks in Fairbanks getting 3 hrs of sunshine a day might appreciate that about now.
I think my reply to Stephen includes a screenshot with the price I paid for the turbine. But I'm glad the price of solar continues to drop. I have 3 solar projects to bid this week.
I stomped around in the Ozark foothills for around 40 years but I don't get back there often. Is it not as overcast all winter as it used to be? Maybe climate change.

 

[OffGridForGood]

Of course I'm not joking. I'm discussing. The wind is blowing 15mph as we speak. Gusting to 21. Bet those off-grid folks in Fairbanks getting 3 hrs of sunshine a day might appreciate that about now.

I have often thought about wind to supplement my solar - especially since we have peak wind during worst solar time of year (winter).
Even if it is less efficient, something during a time of nothing is a benefit. Maybe wind turbines will get better, and cheaper with time, if we continue to buy some, so there is incentive for improved work on these small units. Could be fun too, for a low cost of entry.
What will your next one be?

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

I have often thought about wind to supplement my solar - especially since we have peak wind during worst solar time of year (winter).
Even if it is less efficient, something during a time of nothing is a benefit. Maybe wind turbines will get better, and cheaper with time, if we continue to buy some, so there is incentive for improved work on these small units. Could be fun too, for a low cost of entry.
What will your next one be?

Turbines may get better, I doubt they will get cheaper. Wind is more expensive than solar on a monetary ROI basis. But I literally am charging my batteries 3 hours after sunset so it has some value to me relative to buying more storage which is the real issue.
I am leaning toward Hurricane Wind Power out of WV. Their turbines are beyond the toy that I currently have, but aren't certified so the price is more reasonable.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

I'll try to find it in my amazon order history. The pertinent specs are in the original post. Other than the wildly exaggerated output claims, they are all pretty much the same.

I don't see anything exaggerated. Wind turbine ratings are for the generator, not how much power they'll produce.

Probably worth checking this:

Wind Resources

Rule 1: The power rating of a wind turbine has NOTHING to do with the amount of power you'll get. The amount of power you get depends on the size and efficiency of your wind turbine, and your wind. The power rating of a wind turbine is just its...

diysolarforum.com

You may have missed my reply to Crowz. I think the logic and math there is sound. A $130 dollar investment netted 100kwh over the year. So at minimum, you have to compare a comparable priced panel, no?
I have looked at Hurricane wind products in the past. They had a true 1kw unit 8' blades or so for around $1100.

Was the MPPT free? IIRC, that model is around $170. I have a similar version.

I'm not knocking you at all, and I get it. Our place tends to have good wind when solar is shite and big winds at night. This is my last 30 days:



I'm continuously tempted, but laziness and other projects keep it on the back burner.

 

[HighDesertOffgrid]

Was the MPPT free? IIRC, that model is around $170. I have a similar version

Not really. I had it on hand and they perform well for me. As far as trying to compare it to solar, I think it's reasonable to disregard it's cost as solar panels need one too. Same with mounting hardware. Gotta have something to secure it.
Hook one up to a victron CC. Be warned, one needs a special mindset to appreciate the noise of mini turbine.?