Got Calpha? +Their all-in-one doesn't need clean AC input?

[Mountaineer]

I'm still researching components for my mobile DIY build.

As part of that effort, I sent emails to Signature Solar and Calpha regarding charging with a portable generator.

While I haven't yet received a response from Signature Solar, Calpha did respond and they told me that I don't have to worry about voltage sag, dirty power, etc.

Here is the specific model that I was asking about.

48V 3500W Pure Sine Wave Solar Power Charger Inverter | Calpha Solar

Compatible with 48V battery banks, this solar inverter charger integrates 80A MPPT solar charging, AC/generator battery charging, and battery inverting functions into a single, user-friendly solution.

www.calpha.com

What would be the feature that gives the Calpha that capability, that the 3000EHV-48 does not have?

EG4 3kW Off-Grid Inverter | 3000EHV-48 | 3000W Output | 5000W PV Input | 500 VOC Input

Signature Solar provides solar panels, off-grid solar systems, grid-tie, and hybrid systems. Quality solar inverters, bifacial solar panels, complete solar kits, solar batteries. Featuring brands such as EG4 Electronics with their solar battery, LifePower4 and EG4 LLifePower4 and EG4 LL

signaturesolar.com

Also, has anyone here tried out a Calpha solution?

 

[Mattb4]

The Calpha looks very much like a re-badged SRNE. They may have told you that it would work OK with a portable generator but it may or may not depending on the quality of that portable generator.

I run very similar model (different brand re-badge) but a 24vDC unit and it works fine from my 2800w Honda inverter.

 

[Mountaineer]

The Calpha looks very much like a re-badged SRNE. They may have told you that it would work OK with a portable generator but it may or may not depending on the quality of that portable generator.

I run very similar model (different brand re-badge) but a 24vDC unit and it works fine from my 2800w Honda inverter.

Thanks, @Mattb4.

While I have generators (plural) I don't have one that's an inverter type.

That leads me to the question that has been driving my research: What is the best/smartest way to condition the line from a bog standard generator to an all-in-one's AC input?

One option that I was looking at was to bypass the AIO all together and go with something like an EG4 Chargeverter, but I don't know what I don't know at this point.

 

[Quattrohead]

It's not "dirty" power, more like they drift in frequency way more than grid and this is what causes the issues with synchronizing and accepting power from a generator.
The only way to know for sure is to try your generator and your inverter.

 

[Mattb4]

Problem is what qualifies as a bog standard portable generator. Rotating generators produce a proper sine wave. What some don't do is provide good voltage or frequency regulation. The AIO's have a certain range of each that they will except. Sometimes a out of spec generator can be brought into spec by applying a small load first. However understand that speed governors and varying load conditions make all of this more complicated.

Yes some folks have gone to an external battery charger (Chargeverter or other) in order to run with a less than perfect AC supply. Some like the external battery charger idea for other operational needs.

 

[Mountaineer]

It's not "dirty" power, more like they drift in frequency way more than grid and this is what causes the issues with synchronizing and accepting power from a generator.
The only way to know for sure is to try your generator and your inverter.

Thanks for that bit of info, @Quattrohead. Good to know!

Problem is what qualifies as a bog standard portable generator. Rotating generators produce a proper sine wave. What some don't do is provide good voltage or frequency regulation. The AIO's have a certain range of each that they will except. Sometimes a out of spec generator can be brought into spec by applying a small load first. However understand that speed governors and varying load conditions make all of this more complicated.

Yes some folks have gone to an external battery charger (Chargeverter or other) in order to run with a less than perfect AC supply. Some like the external battery charger idea for other operational needs.

Also, thanks @Mattb4.

I've the tools to test for frequency output, so that's the next step.

 

[42OhmsPA]

Never heard of Calpha.
I'd try to find this... SRNE HF4835U60-H

Edit - spelling.

 

[Mountaineer]

Never heard I've Calpha.
I'd try to find this... SRNE HF4835U60-H

I'm reading up now.

 

[Mountaineer]

I want to note that Signature Solar got back to me today, which is good.

 

[Mountaineer]

Never heard of Calpha.
I'd try to find this... SRNE HF4835U60-H

Edit - spelling.

This appears to be the parent company.

Bioreaction | Plant Oil Extraction | Lab Equipment I Lab1st Scientific |

LAB1ST Scientific designs, manufactures and selects the best bioreactors, plant oil extraction and lab equipment, for our customers worldwide. We are a turnkey solution provider in Shanghai of high effective wiped film distillation equipment, short path distillation kit and glass reactor, etc...

www.lab1st.com

 

[42OhmsPA]

This appears to be the parent company.

Bioreaction | Plant Oil Extraction | Lab Equipment I Lab1st Scientific |

LAB1ST Scientific designs, manufactures and selects the best bioreactors, plant oil extraction and lab equipment, for our customers worldwide. We are a turnkey solution provider in Shanghai of high effective wiped film distillation equipment, short path distillation kit and glass reactor, etc...

www.lab1st.com

Interesting.
I get results for the Calpha inverter...

lab1st solar inverter at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

 

[Henderson]

Thanks, @Mattb4.

While I have generators (plural) I don't have one that's an inverter type.

That leads me to the question that has been driving my research: What is the best/smartest way to condition the line from a bog standard generator to an all-in-one's AC input?

One option that I was looking at was to bypass the AIO all together and go with something like an EG4 Chargeverter, but I don't know what I don't know at this point.

From what I can tell, the EG4 chargeverter is specifically designed to handle dirty power, clean it up and then send it to your batteries. When they speak of dirty power, they are referring to the quality of the sinewave produced by the generator which is also referred to as total harmonic distortion (THD). Anything that has a THD of around 5 or 6% or less is considered clean power. Inverter generators normally have a THD of 5% or less under load. The non-inverter generators can have anywhere from 8% THD up to 22% THD or more under load. By getting the THD of the generator, that'll give you an idea of how clean or not, the output power of the generator is.

 

[Mattb4]

From what I can tell, the EG4 chargeverter is specifically designed to handle dirty power, clean it up and then send it to your batteries. When they speak of dirty power, they are referring to the quality of the sinewave produced by the generator which is also referred to as total harmonic distortion (THD). Anything that has a THD of around 5 or 6% or less is considered clean power. Inverter generators normally have a THD of 5% or less under load. The non-inverter generators can have anywhere from 8% THD up to 22% THD or more under load. By getting the THD of the generator, that'll give you an idea of how clean or not, the output power of the generator is.

I am not sure where you are getting your numbers but most portable generators (non inverter) will be under 5% THD.

EG4 Chargeverter does not clean up dirty power. They take in a wider range of AC frequency and voltage and out put DC. The reason that the AIO or inverter chargers don't is because they serve as a UPS in many cases. The function of a UPS is to ensure a good power to sensitive electronics. When the Main (grid) supply does not meet a narrow band for quality they switch to inverter output. Some of the AIO's have a wider range setting that allows them to use less consistent power like the Chargeverter does.

I do agree that dirty power is power with a lot of THD. THD is not a clean sine wave. It will have spikes and sags when seen on a O-scope.

 

[Henderson]

I am not sure where you are getting your numbers but most portable generators (non inverter) will be under 5% THD.

EG4 Chargeverter does not clean up dirty power. They take in a wider range of AC frequency and voltage and out put DC. The reason that the AIO or inverter chargers don't is because they serve as a UPS in many cases. The function of a UPS is to ensure a good power to sensitive electronics. When the Main (grid) supply does not meet a narrow band for quality they switch to inverter output. Some of the AIO's have a wider range setting that allows them to use less consistent power like the Chargeverter does.

I do agree that dirty power is power with a lot of THD. THD is not a clean sine wave. It will have spikes and sags when seen on a O-scope.

I received my numbers from the actual generator manufacturers. Before I got into solar, I was using a generator for house backup and did tons of research and reached out to several of the generator companies (before I bought the gennie) and most of them provided their THD numbers. The companies that didn't provide their THD numbers, I decided to not consider them. Having loads of sensitive electronics at my home, the THD was a major point for me. Here's what I found as a few examples in terms of the numbers I received from the generator manufacturer themselves: Duromax said their non-inverter generator will be in the range of 14% THD. Champion, lists on their website in their support forum, that their non-invertor generator can reach in the 20% range of THD. Pulsar non-inverter generators will do around 8% to 12% THD. The only non-invertor generator at the time that provided a low THD power output was the Westinghouse 12000DF (around 5% THD...they claim it's due to their pure copper windings) and Pulsar also made what looks like a rebranded version of that model also.

 

[Mattb4]

I received my numbers from the actual generator manufacturers. Before I got into solar, I was using a generator for house backup and did tons of research and reached out to several of the generator companies (before I bought the gennie) and most of them provided their THD numbers. ...

I stand corrected for Champion* since their website in the FAQ says under load they go from 12-20THD. Strange since for years a sales point was under 5% before inverter generators became common. Or perhaps Champion and Duromax use bad quality materials.

*Did a quick look at Northern Tool and in their Q&A they claim less than 5% for several of their gas generators. Someone is either being dishonest or marketing their inverter line.

 

[Henderson]

I stand corrected for Champion* since their website in the FAQ says under load they go from 12-20THD. Strange since for years a sales point was under 5% before inverter generators became common. Or perhaps Champion and Duromax use bad quality materials.

*Did a quick look at Northern Tool and in their Q&A they claim less than 5% for several of their gas generators. Someone is either being dishonest or marketing their inverter line.

yes, at the time northern only had inverter generators with less than 5% THD. Perhaps they've added some more models.