Gowatt for RV

[voodoomedic14]

The growatt setup seems so easy to use and install, can.it be used to set up for a 24v in a RV?

 

[Bobert]

The growatt setup seems so easy to use and install, can.it be used to set up for a 24v in a RV?

The short answer is yes. But an All in one (AIO) inverter has unique limitations that prevent it from being a more common installation in rvs.
1. If you have a 50amp rv things get a little inconvenient. If you use a 110 inverter you must work around the fact that the power supply is 2 sides of 220 and those sides must be joined if you wish to have everything working from the inverter and be able to switch it back when connected to shore power. There are several work arounds for this but I have never had an rv so I am not familiar enough with the system to explain the work arounds. If you get a 220v unit (make sure it has 110 between the phases) then the charger won’t work if you are connected to 110.
2. When connected to shore power AIO inverters charge the batteries and pass through power to your loads. Thus the amps available for loads are whatever is leftover from whatever is being used for charging. I use an AIO in my rv and I turn the charge rate way down if I am using loads at the same time it is charging from ac. One other issue that you can run into is that if you use a conventional generator to supply shore power you can only use half of its rated power or else the sine wave it produces will start to collapse and you can damage the AIO. I use an inverter generator and avoid this problem. A better but expensive work around is to not use the ac input at all and use a separate high output ac to dc charger.
These are not impossible problems to overcome but these units are not specifically designed for rv use so it’s not a set it and forget it situation. You will frequently get into situations that require changing the programming if you wish to take full advantage of the AIO.
Sometimes the shape and space required for ventilation can be a problem.
Overall I like my AIO unit and it does a great job supplying power the trailer. But it is not a set and forget arrangement.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

The growatt setup seems so easy to use and install, can.it be used to set up for a 24v in a RV?

Growatt and MPP and others have 24V models. Is your RV 24V now? Or 12V?

The idea of going to 24V is typically to reduce amps at DC to power aircon, microwave, or bigger electric appliances. Nothing wrong with that but if you aren’t going to power an air conditioner it might be more convenient to remain 12V depending on your situation.

If a 2000W inverter is the largest you’d imagine needing or if a 1200W pure sine inverter is sufficient I’d go 12V.

However- by growatt I’m assuming you mean an aio unit.
To get in the 2000W output range you are generally stuck with 24V. MPP does have a ‘stackable’ 12V 1000W model that will do 2000- or 3000W outputs by adding units.

Does that help? I hope it’s useful info.

 

[grumpy1056]

Aww... I want to go with the 24v Growatt. But what you're saying sounds like it is not a good idea. I was also thinking of setting up a system like Will had with the 48v system, but add a 30amp breaker box. Then just plug the RV into the breaker box with a 30amp RV plug adaptor. I know I'm not powering an A/C, I have a generator for that if needed. So It's kinda like plugging into shore power. And I don't have to worry about all the wiring changes up front. Or does that sound silly?

 

[Bobert]

Just be aware of the limitations and I’m sure whatever you decide will work out.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

Or does that sound silly?

No it does not

 

[grumpy1056]

Just be aware of the limitations and I’m sure whatever you decide will work out.

What limitations would come to mind???

 

[Bobert]

What limitations would come to mind???

The challenges of using a generator on an all in one system

I found the following video super helpful in understanding the input requirements of an all in one inverter and the potential pitfalls of generator use. 3.2 minutes into the video is where generator power is discussed.

diysolarforum.com

Here’s a review I did of the 48v AIO I use. It highlighted some of the general AIO limitations and some specific to my particular unit. ( how the MPPT work for instance

PowMr 48 volt 3500 watt hybrid inverter review

I initially wrote this review for Amazon but never posted it. I thought those who were considering purchasing this might find this review helpful. This review is probably a bit more basic than necessary for this audience so much of what I mention you probably already know and You may want...

diysolarforum.com

 

[grumpy1056]

The challenges of using a generator on an all in one system

I found the following video super helpful in understanding the input requirements of an all in one inverter and the potential pitfalls of generator use. 3.2 minutes into the video is where generator power is discussed.

diysolarforum.com

Here’s a review I did of the 48v AIO I use. It highlighted some of the general AIO limitations and some specific to my particular unit. ( how the MPPT work for instance

PowMr 48 volt 3500 watt hybrid inverter review

I initially wrote this review for Amazon but never posted it. I thought those who were considering purchasing this might find this review helpful. This review is probably a bit more basic than necessary for this audience so much of what I mention you probably already know and You may want...

diysolarforum.com

I wonder if the Growatt has the same issue at that 60v threshold?
My issue is that I'm not sure how to wire it all in... Someone told me I had to just disconnect our 12v converter and not use it. But that doesn't make sense, since I have a 12v fridge and lots of 12v lights in the RV. My RV is already setup with a stock solar system, but no inverter. So I was going to just install the Growatt 24v AIO and remove the Furrion MPPT charge controller. But I'm not sure how to handle the 12v systems. It has only one 170w panel, so we want to add to that of course. The reasoning behind 24v is I have 2 12v AGM's wired in parallel and can move them to 24v for now. Once I have a few more bucks I can go with the bigger 24v rack battery for the system. Then add another later if we do that much camping. If that makes sense.

 

[Bobert]

I wonder if the Growatt has the same issue at that 60v threshold?
My issue is that I'm not sure how to wire it all in... Someone told me I had to just disconnect our 12v converter and not use it. But that doesn't make sense, since I have a 12v fridge and lots of 12v lights in the RV. My RV is already setup with a stock solar system, but no inverter. So I was going to just install the Growatt 24v AIO and remove the Furrion MPPT charge controller. But I'm not sure how to handle the 12v systems. It has only one 170w panel, so we want to add to that of course. The reasoning behind 24v is I have 2 12v AGM's wired in parallel and can move them to 24v for now. Once I have a few more bucks I can go with the bigger 24v rack battery for the system. Then add another later if we do that much camping. If that makes sense.

If you are Using a 12 V system for your inverter then you just simply unplug the converter and forget about it. But in the case of an all in one unit that is 24 V or higher you have to have either a converter that converts 24 V or 48 V to 12 V or you can do what I did where I just left the system completely intact and simply inverted to 110 and then re-converted back to 12. I left a battery in place for the 12 V house system and that gives me some redundancy if I exhaust the batteries on my inverter system my 12 V system still works. I also use a independent solar panel to charge the 12 V battery so that most of the time I don’t actually have to do the conversion from 110 and back to 12. Another advantage of the system is that should I decide to sell or remove my equipment from the trailer for whatever reason The entire electrical system is essentially intact and I don’t have to rewire anything to get it back to standard RV configuration.

 

[grumpy1056]

If you are Using a 12 V system for your inverter then you just simply unplug the converter and forget about it. But in the case of an all in one unit that is 24 V or higher you have to have either a converter that converts 24 V or 48 V to 12 V or you can do what I did where I just left the system completely intact and simply inverted to 110 and then re-converted back to 12. I left a battery in place for the 12 V house system and that gives me some redundancy if I exhaust the batteries on my inverter system my 12 V system still works. I also use a independent solar panel to charge the 12 V battery so that most of the time I don’t actually have to do the conversion from 110 and back to 12. Another advantage of the system is that should I decide to sell or remove my equipment from the trailer for whatever reason The entire electrical system is essentially intact and I don’t have to rewire anything to get it back to standard RV configuration.

I like that (leaving the 12v system in place), but I need a wiring diagram to show me how that is done.

 

[Bobert]

I like that (leaving the 12v system in place), but I need a wiring diagram to show me how that is done.

I’ll see if I can draw it out on paper when I get home. It’s pretty simple

 

[grumpy1056]

I’ll see if I can draw it out on paper when I get home. It’s pretty simple

thanks... That's what everyone is telling me. I'll bet as soon as I see it, I'll go... NOW I GET IT!

 

[12VoltInstalls]

left a battery in place for the 12 V house system and that gives me some redundancy if I exhaust the batteries on my inverter system my 12 V system still works. I also use a independent solar panel to charge the 12 V battery so that most of the time I don’t actually have to do the conversion from 110 and back to 12. Another advantage of the system is that should I decide to sell or remove my equipment from the trailer for whatever reason The entire electrical system is essentially intact and I don’t have to rewire anything to get it back to standard RV configuration.

Now THAT makes sense. Use the 170W panel for the 12V and put 6-800W up there for a 24V system

I’ll see if I can draw it out on paper when I get home. It’s pretty simple

 

[Aakelley]

I have a growatt 3000 24v in my skoolie and love it. Took it out for its first real test last weekend and it performed flawlessly. I have ~1600 watts of solar on the roof and used 1000 watt ground array and I was able to run AC and lights and microwave whenever I wanted for 5 days in the heat of the middle of a field (at Bonnaroo in TN) and only had to run the generator through about 3 gallons of gas.

 

[Bobert]

hanks... That's what everyone is telling me. I'll bet as soon as I see it, I'll go... NOW I GET IT!

Attached is a drawing I penciled in on an old envelope. I am only showing ac wires as that’s all that affects this part of an AIO installation. The shore power input on the rv goes directly to the AIO grid input and the ac out goes directly to the rv circuit panel that would originally would have had shore power connected directly to it. Some people have simply created a separate shore power inlet that connects directly to the grid input on the AIO and wired an rv outlet to the output of the AIO then the plug the shore cord of the camper into the AIO fed outlet if they want to use the AIO.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

people have simply created a separate shore power inlet that connects directly to the grid input on the AIO and wired an rv outlet to the output of the AIO then the plug the shore cord of the camper into the AIO fed outlet if they want to use the AIO.

That’s essentially how I currently operate. It makes the most sense for a “stationary” RV, but a typically mobile RV would probably want the RV cord to feed one side of a transfer switch with the AIO feeding the other with accommodations for proper grounding.

 

[Bobert]

That’s essentially how I currently operate. It makes the most sense for a “stationary” RV, but a typically mobile RV would probably want the RV cord to feed one side of a transfer switch with the AIO feeding the other with accommodations for proper grounding.

“Proper grounding” is a bit ambiguous for an rv. Technically the rv is never properly “grounded” unless it is connected to shore power. In most camping situations you cannot drive a ground rod so the whole idea is missing a step from the getgo. Most 120v only output AIO units I have heard of simply pass through the neutral and ground wire and the rv itself does not bond the neutral. Many generators do not have the neutral and ground bonded either. The most common shock source for an RV is hot skin and that is nearly impossible to accomplish without a miswired RV connected to shore power. Since there is no significant connection between the earth and any part of the power supplying the rv (when not connected to shore power) and since the voltage is relatively low significant induction from the ac power is unlikely. An RV that is using an external generator complicates as some generators are bonded internally and some are not so if you wire for a bonded generator and you end up using an unbonded one the ground will be unbonded but if you wire for unbonded you will create a double path all the while you don’t actually have a true earth ground. I am casually researching the dangers of unbonded neutral to ground in an rv and I’m not finding much. Do you or anyone else have any resources that deal with that? I know that it is common to use an unbonded generator that produces more power than a 30 amp rv can use for running equipment on a job site.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

“Proper grounding” is a bit ambiguous for an rv.

No, there is always a proper way.
That’s why I qualified it ‘properly’ so nobody gets electrocuted.

you cannot drive a ground rod so the whole idea is missing a step from the getgo

A/the ground rod returns to source of power. If not on shore power the onboard source of power provides the ground and disconnects that when shorepower is supplied.

am casually researching the dangers of unbonded neutral to ground in an rv and I’m not finding much. Do you or anyone else have any resources that deal with that

The filterguy papers here on this usenet site on bonding and grounding should cover it.
There’s a conflict between actual safety and “code” regarding grounding to earth with independently derived systems.

 

[Bobert]

The filterguy papers here on this usenet site on bonding and grounding should cover it.
There’s a conflict between actual safety and “code” regarding grounding to earth with independently derived systems.

This is the ambiguity I am referring to.