Gravity Generator with weights (like an old style clock)

[Frank in Thailand]

One pulley will decrease the 200 meter to 100 meter, and the 20 kg potential energy doesn't get reduced by half.

There is some friction, and lifting the weight will use 10 kg, but double the amount of rope.

If the rope is wound on a motor / generator..

You are correct, it doesn't add potential energy, it looses a bit due friction.

It also doesn't take away potential energy.

The pulling force is less (half) the duration is longer (double)

Stored energy stays the same.

If it would be "free fall.." velocity increase due gravity, and with it potential energy..

Yes, 5 meters is less speed then 200 meter
And with it, less of a "bang" or a pull in the rope (before it hits the ground)

Just the initial pull of 20 kg is the same at 5 and 200 meters (if we don't try to calculate the slightly lower gravity at 200 meter)

And as it's a controlled drop / lowering of the weight, friction of the pulleys, additional weight of the ropes..
Adding 25% extra should compensate.

20 kg on 200 meter isn't doable.
25 kg on 5 meter is.

The efficiency (what was already not a good one) will be reduced.
But .. that isn't important (!!)
It's a crap of a "battery" that should only store energy that otherwise would be lost.
And it can keep it stored for decades without losses.
Gravity won't change much in a decade. (We all hope ?)

It does have it's uses.

And as a DIY project to learn and for fun, sure!!

Pulleys will help you not to build a tower of 200 meter.
And still have de desired end result.

 

[Bkord]

I think it would work if you’re running a clock. Anything practical would need 100,000+ pounds. Or less weight but lifted many times a day.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

the best gravity generators are simple water storage and diy micro hydro. Simple and effective.

Yes, absolutely agreed.

You do need enough height for the water to gain enough speed, I believe it was 20 meter.
If you live on a hill, it's a great addition.

Micro hydro is fun to play with also!

My friend pumps his water 15 meter high, so he doesn't need additional pump for water pressure in the house.

Not exactly generating electricity, but choosing when he does spend the solar, and take benefits of it at the rest of the day

(He does live on a hill, and the water bore pump doesn't need that much extra energy to push it up 15 meters more)

I never tried to do the math if it would be more energy efficient to use an other pump to take it 15 meter high.

3000 watt, 3 phase pump, 150 meter deep water bore..

I like his idea, just not sure how economic viable it is

 

[Frank in Thailand]

I think it would work if you’re running a clock. Anything practical would need 100,000+ pounds. Or less weight but lifted many times a day.

Hahaha

Yes, well... He is planning:

My theory is that if I put up a weight system like in old style clocks I should be able to at least get the generator spinning for a bit.

 

[CoolWill]

One pulley will decrease the 200 meter to 100 meter, and the 20 kg potential energy doesn't get reduced by half.

There is some friction, and lifting the weight will use 10 kg, but double the amount of rope.

If the rope is wound on a motor / generator..

You are correct, it doesn't add potential energy, it looses a bit due friction.

It also doesn't take away potential energy.

The pulling force is less (half) the duration is longer (double)

Stored energy stays the same.

If it would be "free fall.." velocity increase due gravity, and with it potential energy..

Yes, 5 meters is less speed then 200 meter
And with it, less of a "bang" or a pull in the rope (before it hits the ground)

Just the initial pull of 20 kg is the same at 5 and 200 meters (if we don't try to calculate the slightly lower gravity at 200 meter)

And as it's a controlled drop / lowering of the weight, friction of the pulleys, additional weight of the ropes..
Adding 25% extra should compensate.

20 kg on 200 meter isn't doable.
25 kg on 5 meter is.

The efficiency (what was already not a good one) will be reduced.
But .. that isn't important (!!)
It's a crap of a "battery" that should only store energy that otherwise would be lost.
And it can keep it stored for decades without losses.
Gravity won't change much in a decade. (We all hope ?)

It does have it's uses.

And as a DIY project to learn and for fun, sure!!

Pulleys will help you not to build a tower of 200 meter.
And still have de desired end result.

There is no way to produce the power he wants for the time he wants using pulleys. The potential energy in a falling mass is dependent solely on the mass and the height. The maximum energy available in 20 kg at a height of 5 meters is 980 joules. That will give you 15 watts for 65 seconds at 100% efficiency. No pulley or gearing can change that.

 

[Frank in Thailand]

It has been a few days since I did my school days.

If I remember correctly, there is an point where the speed no longer increase of a falling object.

How would you build it?
Knowing that 200 meter tower is not possible.

Increase the 20kg is.
OP was talking about using his car as weight. (1000kg?)
And absolutely not 200 meter

Despite the fact that he needs to get his car lifted, like using a ramp it such, and the fuel it will consume to get up the ramp...

Let's just assume that is just his parking spot anyways, energy always consumed.

How would you build it?

It's a science project ?
Where the boys (and gals) suddenly have a car available as weight..
Things you could never dream about as kid...

What is a usable construction?

We already can agree that it won't be cost effective ot efficient.

So put that aside.

How to do?

 

[CoolWill]

It has been a few days since I did my school days.

If I remember correctly, there is an point where the speed no longer increase of a falling object.

How would you build it?
Knowing that 200 meter tower is not possible.

Increase the 20kg is.
OP was talking about using his car as weight. (1000kg?)
And absolutely not 200 meter

Despite the fact that he needs to get his car lifted, like using a ramp it such, and the fuel it will consume to get up the ramp...

Let's just assume that is just his parking spot anyways, energy always consumed.

How would you build it?

It's a science project ?
Where the boys (and gals) suddenly have a car available as weight..
Things you could never dream about as kid...

What is a usable construction?

We already can agree that it won't be cost effective ot efficient.

So put that aside.

How to do?

The only way to get practical power is to use a big weight and a big height. 100 kg and 20 meters would get you maybe 15 minutes of 15 watts. That could be accomplished with a big tree and some cinder blocks or boulders relatively easily.

 

[Hedges]

I'll never understand the need for someone to spend $40 tinkering around trying to build a better mousetrap when you could have just spent the $40 to buy another solar panel and been done.

How much power can a $40 solar panel store?
(but good for cell phone charging.)

Here's a practical power generation device:

 

[Hedges]

OP was talking about using his car as weight. (1000kg?)
And absolutely not 200 meter

 

[Frank in Thailand]

ai jai jai....

 

[Hogheavenfarm]

Great movie BTW

 

[Solar Guppy]

I was interested in XXXX YYYY until I started doing the math.

This should be a sticky at the top of all forums .....

 

[Peterbylt]

I like your idea and totally understand your wanting to try something different.

Just reading your concept, I thought,

If you drive your car once a day, build a spring loaded ramp that when you drive your car off of it the ramp automatically goes up.
When you come home you drive back onto the ramp that slowly lowers using the weight of your car, driving your gravity generator and charging your phone.

Would the cost justify expense, Probably not, would it be a fun project, Yes......

Peter

 

[Archerite]

And as a DIY project to learn and for fun, sure!!

Pulleys will help you not to build a tower of 200 meter.
And still have de desired end result.

Have fun with your experiment!

Forgotten what company was providing gravity lights to areas of the world without infrastructure, but here is something like it:

https://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/gravity-self-powered-led-lamp/

I had no idea something like this existed!! That's so awesome! ? ? That product gives hope there is at least "something" possible with it in a small home environment....just not charging a phone maybe. It also gave me another idea...using pulley's to "increase the height" while still having it inside a residential home (actually a European 50's flat! ) Going a few times up and down with pulley's at 2 or 2.5 meters will increase the "weight's height" and if I understand the math and theory correctly also the runtime. Each pulley will also introduce friction but I have not yet figured out how much that is an issue, but it's good to keep in mind.

I'll never understand the need for someone to spend $40 tinkering around trying to build a better mousetrap when you could have just spent the $40 to buy another solar panel and been done.

It took me a few times reading that to get what exactly you meant with "mouse trap", hahahaah. It's the weight ofcourse! But my personal "need" is my curiosity in if it could be done and just to learn from it. I saw a later reply where someone called it a "science project" and that is basically what this is to me. ?
If you REALLY need the power and have a low budget than you are absolutely right to spend your money on solar panels instead. But I am going to spend a lot more on this than $40...I already have actually!

My solar system was also build in little steps. At first I got really cheap 10 watt panels and a 7Ah lead acid battery and a single victron MPPT. It was supper basic but just enough to get my feet wet and start experimenting and seeing if it was even possible. That's how I learned that solar panels behind double glass do not work that great, and really need to be outside in direct sun light. And that a 10 watt panel will never ever generate 10 watts of input power because of the efficiency losses.

In total I spend WAY TOO MUCH on my little solar and battery system....and earning it back will take at least 20-30 years at this rate. But the value of what I learned from it already makes it worth it to me. i know know how to crimp lugs on thick copper wires. I know how to calculate the amps and which size cable to use, how to make safe connections, be horrified from youtube video's of "free energy" and twisting high voltage wires with bare hands, make plans for upgrades of the system, and to know what would not work.

It is now at the stage of using it daily and it charges "by it self" from either solar or the grid and I don't really have to think about it anymore. So I have the time to learn about other types of power generation that just solar. Even if it's at a small scale...and for maybe just a minute or two...that is what I plan to gain from this gravity energy project.

the best gravity generators are simple water storage and diy micro hydro. Simple and effective.

That would be awesome but I have no idea how to do that efficiently on the 4th floor of a flat I have done research on them and hydro power is awesome! My only option for it is to collect rain and then channel that into a water wheel or something. But I am going to do experiments with it on a really small scale too...using a USB water pump and a cheap hydro generator.

Pulley's are great for force multiplying, but they don't add any more potential energy to 20kg 5m in the air.

If I understood correctly it will increase the runtime and "height" of the weight. Right? But I can't do 5m without pulley's....floor to ceiling is 2.5 meters.

OP was talking about using his car as weight. (1000kg?)

That was @HalfBaked actually and not me. I did not really talk about what to use as the weight yet since I did not know yet. Still don't after learning the reality now.

And as a DIY project to learn and for fun, sure!!

Pulleys will help you not to build a tower of 200 meter.
And still have de desired end result.

This is exactly what I plan to do now. It will probably end up being a maze of pulley's and wire but that's fine for a DIY project. For the weight I am not comfortable to let it "hang free" like a sandbag on a wire at great height. Fine for a short test...but I am thinking of using 3D printing linear rails and bars to guide the weight down a predictable path. Then I can also add steel (or something else) onto this carriage. Think like the counter weight of an elevator...that big block that moves opposite of the passenger cabin. Just in a really small scale.

It's a science project ?

That is exactly how I am looking at this...going in with the wrong expectations...but in the end that is what it is! a science project to learn from. And part of the reason for posting here was to get other insights...and that's what I got if I like the outcome or not. ?

I think the most "useful" thing to charge with this gravity based project is going to be super capacitors for maximum efficiency. I have huge ones of 500F (which end's up lower than that since I need to put them in series to get meaningful voltage). And if I get those full enough I can look from there what I can practically do with them. Also have 10000uF capacitors.

I have no idea what to use it for yet...but I just really want to do some experiments with it. And learn. ?

 

[hwy17]

If I understood correctly it will increase the runtime and "height" of the weight. Right?

It's a tradeoff. A pulley that doubles the "height" halves the weight. No energy is ever gained.

 

[CoolWill]

I had no idea something like this existed!! That's so awesome! ? ? That product gives hope there is at least "something" possible with it in a small home environment....just not charging a phone maybe. It also gave me another idea...using pulley's to "increase the height" while still having it inside a residential home (actually a European 50's flat! ) Going a few times up and down with pulley's at 2 or 2.5 meters will increase the "weight's height" and if I understand the math and theory correctly also the runtime. Each pulley will also introduce friction but I have not yet figured out how much that is an issue, but it's good to keep in mind.


It took me a few times reading that to get what exactly you meant with "mouse trap", hahahaah. It's the weight ofcourse! But my personal "need" is my curiosity in if it could be done and just to learn from it. I saw a later reply where someone called it a "science project" and that is basically what this is to me. ?
If you REALLY need the power and have a low budget than you are absolutely right to spend your money on solar panels instead. But I am going to spend a lot more on this than $40...I already have actually!

My solar system was also build in little steps. At first I got really cheap 10 watt panels and a 7Ah lead acid battery and a single victron MPPT. It was supper basic but just enough to get my feet wet and start experimenting and seeing if it was even possible. That's how I learned that solar panels behind double glass do not work that great, and really need to be outside in direct sun light. And that a 10 watt panel will never ever generate 10 watts of input power because of the efficiency losses.

In total I spend WAY TOO MUCH on my little solar and battery system....and earning it back will take at least 20-30 years at this rate. But the value of what I learned from it already makes it worth it to me. i know know how to crimp lugs on thick copper wires. I know how to calculate the amps and which size cable to use, how to make safe connections, be horrified from youtube video's of "free energy" and twisting high voltage wires with bare hands, make plans for upgrades of the system, and to know what would not work.

It is now at the stage of using it daily and it charges "by it self" from either solar or the grid and I don't really have to think about it anymore. So I have the time to learn about other types of power generation that just solar. Even if it's at a small scale...and for maybe just a minute or two...that is what I plan to gain from this gravity energy project.

That would be awesome but I have no idea how to do that efficiently on the 4th floor of a flat I have done research on them and hydro power is awesome! My only option for it is to collect rain and then channel that into a water wheel or something. But I am going to do experiments with it on a really small scale too...using a USB water pump and a cheap hydro generator.

If I understood correctly it will increase the runtime and "height" of the weight. Right? But I can't do 5m without pulley's....floor to ceiling is 2.5 meters.

That was @HalfBaked actually and not me. I did not really talk about what to use as the weight yet since I did not know yet. Still don't after learning the reality now.

This is exactly what I plan to do now. It will probably end up being a maze of pulley's and wire but that's fine for a DIY project. For the weight I am not comfortable to let it "hang free" like a sandbag on a wire at great height. Fine for a short test...but I am thinking of using 3D printing linear rails and bars to guide the weight down a predictable path. Then I can also add steel (or something else) onto this carriage. Think like the counter weight of an elevator...that big block that moves opposite of the passenger cabin. Just in a really small scale.

That is exactly how I am looking at this...going in with the wrong expectations...but in the end that is what it is! a science project to learn from. And part of the reason for posting here was to get other insights...and that's what I got if I like the outcome or not. ?

I think the most "useful" thing to charge with this gravity based project is going to be super capacitors for maximum efficiency. I have huge ones of 500F (which end's up lower than that since I need to put them in series to get meaningful voltage). And if I get those full enough I can look from there what I can practically do with them. Also have 10000uF capacitors.

I have no idea what to use it for yet...but I just really want to do some experiments with it. And learn. ?

You will NOT gain any "height" with pulleys. Height is exactly what it sounds like: Actual distance above the earth. It isn't an abstract concept you can algebraically manipulate. There are only so many joules of energy available in any raised weight. That amount is mgh: mass (kg) x gravity (9.8) x height (m). This storage scheme is fundamentally limited by ONLY the mass and the actual real distance from the top of travel to the bottom.

 

[Hedges]

Velocity of a mass is another way to store energy.
Flywheel, for instance. Just don't be anywhere around if they come apart. Underground would be a good location.

Enough velocity, and energy gets stored as change in mass. But that is in the realm of particle accelerators.

Winding up a spring is another (used in other types of clocks.)
Also compressed gas. (although temperature changes and cooling complicate matters, with additional loss.)

 

[wme]

Ferget pulleys, think gears. Using a gear train to spin an loaded alternator fast will place a load on things and slow down the weight speed.
I've seen air vanes used to govern the descent of a load.

 

[CoolWill]

A

Velocity of a mass is another way to store energy.
Flywheel, for instance. Just don't be anywhere around if they come apart. Underground would be a good location.

Enough velocity, and energy gets stored as change in mass. But that is in the realm of particle accelerators.

Winding up a spring is another (used in other types of clocks.)
Also compressed gas. (although temperature changes and cooling complicate matters, with additional loss.)

A flywheel is similarly complicated, but with the added fun of spontaneous rapid disassembly. A 100 kilogram wheel with a diameter of 4 meters spinning at 1000 RPM will give you about 2 million joules. Drawing 15 watts would get you about 40 hours of run time, at 100% efficiency. Of course, if you have the means to spin this wheel up to 1000 RPM, the question becomes "Why don't you just use that mechanism instead?"

 

[CoolWill]

Ferget pulleys, think gears. Using a gear train to spin an loaded alternator fast will place a load on things and slow down the weight speed.
I've seen air vanes used to govern the descent of a load.

My goodness. I guess the math just doesn't get through.