Growatt 3000 LVM possible inverter issues

[Repro]

@Repro mentioned earlier that both of his two HF inverters 2200w/12v Giandel and 1500w GoPower do not have this kind problem

That is true. Right now, I have my 12V Giandel 2200W inverter connected to the four 12V AmpereTIme 200Ah batteries. The inverter is grounded, and I have two refrigerators, a wash machine.... running with no problem. I also ran one fridge and an upright freezer with my GoPower 1500W with no problems. Both inverters were connected to the wiring we installed for the Growatt.

 

[Repro]

I don't Bud was having problems, he was quoting the post above it. But he did bring up an important point relative to the conversation, "So the problem just started? It was running with the two fridge in the past with the same exact setup fine without any flickering until now?"

Which appears later was answered as the problem was present since day one.

The flickering was only seen in the refrigerator's as they were the only things with lights running on solar. The flickering only happens when the compressors on both fridges were running at the same time. Also, when they run at the same time, it starts flickering very little. The longer the compressor ran together, the more intense the flickering got. Therefore, it was not caught early on. We noticed it the first time about a week after we installed it, and I didn't think much of it. I started making it a habit to go and check the fridge when I heard it run. I started seeing the flickering because I was opening the fridge more and more often. It made me crazy because it didn't happen all of the time.

I started digging into the issue intensely, and it took me over a week to figure out that it was only happening when both fridges were running. We could reproduce the flicker by turning the fridge temp down on both fridges to get them to run. We started diagnosing the wiring. We were so sure it was something we did. No matter what we checked, everything was right. During this phase, we ran the wiring again and installed conduit. We double checked all connections and ensured that everything was up to code. When the system passed inspection, we asked the inspector about the flickering. After a short conversation, he asked if we had checked the inverter for issues. I then started researching the internet, talking to the dealer, did resets, and finally posted here. That whole process took a long time. It seems like it is hard for some readers here to get that.

I got some good tips here and we concentrated on the grounding with no luck. Only after removing the Growatt and installing my Giandel inverter did I realize where the problem was. The dealer has been a great sport and is taking the inverter back. I am going to order a new inverter. I am looking at a VE MultiPlus right now. I already have a VE 150/45 SCC, Cerbo GX and a VE smart shunt that I got for my RV. So I have everything but the inverter/charger. I am talking to the dealer about configuration. Once I am convinced it will do what I want, I may spring for it.

I hope that clears up what happened.

 

[Gaze]

This is from Filter Guy in the Resources section. It can be downloaded from this page here: https://diysolarforum.com/resources/grounding-details-for-specific-make-model-of-inverters.156/

As it states, when ATS is engaged, N-G bond is broken and both are transferred thru the ATS to the 120v N-G bond at the service panel or main bonding. When on battery power, N-G bond is inside the Growatt and the ATS has fully opened the N and G circuits to the service panel or main bonding.

Brand:
MPP Solar
Model: LV2424
Description: ALL in one Inverter Charger
Information provided by:
FilterGuy
Source: Product Manual and Company Support
Confidence in information:
Med High
Notes:
•
This unit would work well as a back up power inverter with a hook up to a residential grid.
•
If used with a generator, the generator should have a Neutral Ground bond.
The manual says:
11. GROUNDING INSTRUCTIONS This inverter/ charger should
be connected to a permanent grounded wiring system. Be sure to
comply with local requirements and regulation to install this inverter.
Emails From MPP Solar Support:
1)
Is the AC In ground, AC out ground and Chassis ground all tied together? yes
2)
Is there any bonding between the AC Neutral out and AC Out Ground? If not, is there any problem if there is a Neutral Ground bo nd in the circuit after the inverter?
T he output N G is handled this way when under line mode (AC bypass), N G is open, but when under inverter mode, then N G will s hort. There shouldn't be any problem
to the inverter itself if you wish to N
G short manually, however we're told some countries (like Australia) require N G to sta y open when grid passes through so that’s
the reason it's designed this way.
When asked about the configuration setting above, They said:
Please ignore this setting as essentially it is the same as what I've described in the last message about how OUTPUT N
G is hand led under different
modes so it's already now done internally and this setting would have no use.
thanks

Automatic
AC: When powered from the AC
in, the inverter does not bond Neutral to ground
BAT: When powered from the battery, the inverter does bond Neutral to ground and
totally disconnects from the AC in.

Yeah, I read that resource a while back. Thanks, FilterGuy.

 

[rcrracer]

If things function OK with just one freezer running at a time, you could wire up something like a GTR8I-M1 multi function timer from Amazon or Ebay. Have it switch the hot back and forth between the two freezers on a set interval like 30 min. As far as the other loads, they can be controlled manually using three way switches .Hot connected to the com. screw, each of two loads, connected to a traveler screw. Electricity can only go down one path. If more loads need to be controlled, use 3 three way switches. Hook com. of each of two three way switches to one of the traveler screws of the third three way switch. Now there are four traveler screws that can be hooked to four loads. Still there is only one path the electricity can take.

 

[MrTrevino]

Hi Everyone, I am having a similar issue. Here are the details. I own a Growatt 3000 24V. For the last 3 weeks it has been powering about half of my house load with no issues. In this load I have a 25ft brand new fridge. Recently I decided to also add a chest freezer(1 year old) to the load. Here is were some of the house lights started flickering. Here is what I have noticed. In the kitchen I have two lights fixtures. Each has 2 x 60watt incandescent light bulbs. When the two fridges are running, if I turn on one of the lights the bulbs start flickering. But as soon as I switch on the second light(for a total of 4 x60watt bulbs) the flickering stops. Seems like flickering only occurs when the inverter is powering a small load. I decided to try one 100watt LED bulb instead of 2 x 60 incandescent bulbs and to my surprise the flickering does not occurs when powering LED bulbs. A smart solution is to replace all of the incandescent lights bulbs with LED ones. But still I'll like to know what can be causing this.

 

[getalab]

I’m having issues with a GW 3000/24 as well, my AC out has a open ground. Vendor said to put it in “standby” mode by turning off inverter, but switching back on before display went dark. All this did in my case was bypass the batteries, and use utility, where I have good ground.
I think this grounding box would work in my case with program 24, but my unit skips that one. Mine goes from 22 to 28, which isn’t even in the manual.

 

[Repro]

Program #24 is only in use when two or more Growatt's are connected in parallel (expansion). Sorry, I forgot to reply to the previous posting.

 

[Repro]

I’m having issues with a GW 3000/24 as well, my AC out has a open ground. Vendor said to put it in “standby” mode by turning off inverter, but switching back on before display went dark. All this did in my case was bypass the batteries, and use utility, where I have good ground.
I think this grounding box would work in my case with program 24, but my unit skips that one. Mine goes from 22 to 28, which isn’t even in the manual.

Program #24 is only in use when two or more Growatt's are connected in parallel (expansion).

 

[getalab]

Program #24 is only in use when two or more Growatt's are connected in parallel (expansion).

It mentions that in program settings, but doesn’t mention it in the dry contact signal section of manual..so, I don’t know.

 

[Jamsolar876]

The flickering was only seen in the refrigerator's as they were the only things with lights running on solar. The flickering only happens when the compressors on both fridges were running at the same time. Also, when they run at the same time, it starts flickering very little. The longer the compressor ran together, the more intense the flickering got. Therefore, it was not caught early on. We noticed it the first time about a week after we installed it, and I didn't think much of it. I started making it a habit to go and check the fridge when I heard it run. I started seeing the flickering because I was opening the fridge more and more often. It made me crazy because it didn't happen all of the time.

I started digging into the issue intensely, and it took me over a week to figure out that it was only happening when both fridges were running. We could reproduce the flicker by turning the fridge temp down on both fridges to get them to run. We started diagnosing the wiring. We were so sure it was something we did. No matter what we checked, everything was right. During this phase, we ran the wiring again and installed conduit. We double checked all connections and ensured that everything was up to code. When the system passed inspection, we asked the inspector about the flickering. After a short conversation, he asked if we had checked the inverter for issues. I then started researching the internet, talking to the dealer, did resets, and finally posted here. That whole process took a long time. It seems like it is hard for some readers here to get that.

I got some good tips here and we concentrated on the grounding with no luck. Only after removing the Growatt and installing my Giandel inverter did I realize where the problem was. The dealer has been a great sport and is taking the inverter back. I am going to order a new inverter. I am looking at a VE MultiPlus right now. I already have a VE 150/45 SCC, Cerbo GX and a VE smart shunt that I got for my RV. So I have everything but the inverter/charger. I am talking to the dealer about configuration. Once I am convinced it will do what I want, I may spring for it.

I hope that clears up what happened.

I'm running the same inverter with a side by side Frigidaire refrigerator..I get the same flickering when I run my Samsung washing machine ..the flickering only occurs when the machine motor comes on and off as it's one of those oscillator types. It appears to just be due to the high load draw and the high frequency inverter design of the Growatt. I'd purchase another one and just go parallel.

 

[Repro]

I did not have a high load draw. This Growatt model is rated at 3000W. Before I took the Growatt offline, I had only a fridge and an upright freezer running for two days with a load of maximum 500-600 watts. I still had the flickering. It is my belief that the Growatt model I had has issues with two inductive motors running at the same time creating feedback/noise that caused the issue. Low or high load, the flickering was there, and the longer the fridge compressors ran, the worse it got. This was problem was easily reproduceable once we knew what it was.

I still have a Giandel 2200W inverter running till I find something to replace the Growatt. The Giandel is running two fridges very stable, no wild voltage or frequency fluctuations like the Growatt.

 

[740GLE]

what’s the PF of those fridges? Remember the power triangle, if it’s 500w but at pf of .6 that’s a tough load for a high frequency inverter. Big toroidal coil of a proper inverter are worth the cost. The growwatt seems to be a great all in one unit, but at the price point it’s obviously not the highest quality.

 

[rogerramjet]

I have been intensely engaged with my solar hobby for over a year, and I have learned a lot. I have made SOOOO many mistakes, and paid for them dearly. Maybe some of my other posts will save people from having the same problems.

I have a Growatt 3000 LVM 24V inverter. I have been so happy with it until recently. I may have pinpointed an issue I have been having. Just a quick overview of my system:

2000W array
Growatt 3000 LVM 24V
4 200AH LiFePO4 batteries (2S/2P) for 24V
AC input is on an isolated 20A circuit
AC output to a 6 space sub panel wired to four 20A outlets with breakers at the moment.

What am I running:
Two full size refrigerators
Front loader wash machine (ran 2-3 times/week)
Two 1.5 HP sump pumps (run for 5-7 seconds maybe twice a day)
One outlet in my garage for two battery tenders
It is my intention to install a switch to run my furnace in winter during outages (8A draw)

Problem: Since I installed the Growatt system, my refrigerator lights flicker badly when both fridges run at the same time, We have gone over the wiring multiple times, shortened the wiring runs as much as possible and have tried multiple configuration parameters on the Growatt. I have called the dealer for support, did a factory reset and reconfigured. The only explanation was that the two refrigerators might be causing fluctuations. Another suggestion was to change the wattage of light bulb (It has LED's). In the short time the system has been running, my upstairs one year old refrigerator is now broken. You could hear the compressor running funny when the lights flickered. It is just my opinion, but I think the Growatt is the culprit.

The load on the inverter was ridiculously low. Seldom did it see over 1000W at one given time during the course of the day. See chart attached. So why can't the inverter in the Growatt handle this? I have ran these two refrigerators on two different portable units that I built with no flickering or issues for weeks at a time doing tests. One has a Ginadel 2200W inverter, and the other has a GoPower Industrial 1500W inverter (both pure sine wave). Never once did I experience flickering or the compressors running strangely.

Can anyone shed some light on this? I do not want to sound so negative, but I have ran into so many issues over the course of installing this Growatt system from zoning, permitting, inspections and now this, that I am about ready to pack it in. Total frustration!!!!!!!!! I hope that an answer can be found. If I am right, stay away from Growatt. Another expensive mistake that cost me a fridge, and now another inverter investment.

 

[rogerramjet]

I have been intensely engaged with my solar hobby for over a year, and I have learned a lot. I have made SOOOO many mistakes, and paid for them dearly. Maybe some of my other posts will save people from having the same problems.

I have a Growatt 3000 LVM 24V inverter. I have been so happy with it until recently. I may have pinpointed an issue I have been having. Just a quick overview of my system:

2000W array
Growatt 3000 LVM 24V
4 200AH LiFePO4 batteries (2S/2P) for 24V
AC input is on an isolated 20A circuit
AC output to a 6 space sub panel wired to four 20A outlets with breakers at the moment.

What am I running:
Two full size refrigerators
Front loader wash machine (ran 2-3 times/week)
Two 1.5 HP sump pumps (run for 5-7 seconds maybe twice a day)
One outlet in my garage for two battery tenders
It is my intention to install a switch to run my furnace in winter during outages (8A draw)

Problem: Since I installed the Growatt system, my refrigerator lights flicker badly when both fridges run at the same time, We have gone over the wiring multiple times, shortened the wiring runs as much as possible and have tried multiple configuration parameters on the Growatt. I have called the dealer for support, did a factory reset and reconfigured. The only explanation was that the two refrigerators might be causing fluctuations. Another suggestion was to change the wattage of light bulb (It has LED's). In the short time the system has been running, my upstairs one year old refrigerator is now broken. You could hear the compressor running funny when the lights flickered. It is just my opinion, but I think the Growatt is the culprit.

The load on the inverter was ridiculously low. Seldom did it see over 1000W at one given time during the course of the day. See chart attached. So why can't the inverter in the Growatt handle this? I have ran these two refrigerators on two different portable units that I built with no flickering or issues for weeks at a time doing tests. One has a Ginadel 2200W inverter, and the other has a GoPower Industrial 1500W inverter (both pure sine wave). Never once did I experience flickering or the compressors running strangely.

Can anyone shed some light on this? I do not want to sound so negative, but I have ran into so many issues over the course of installing this Growatt system from zoning, permitting, inspections and now this, that I am about ready to pack it in. Total frustration!!!!!!!!! I hope that an answer can be found. If I am right, stay away from Growatt. Another expensive mistake that cost me a fridge, and now another inverter investment.

The problem with refrigerators is low run amps vs high start up amps. If a frig runs at 10A then its start amps is about 40A. If frig a is running at 10A and frig b is trying to start at 40A guess what. 10A + 40A = 50A on an inverter rated at 25A output. Any inductive unit will have to figured into an inverters total output. Fix; larger inverter or second inverter in parallel.

 

[Repro]

The problem with refrigerators is low run amps vs high start up amps. If a frig runs at 10A then its start amps is about 40A. If frig a is running at 10A and frig b is trying to start at 40A guess what. 10A + 40A = 50A on an inverter rated at 25A output. Any inductive unit will have to figured into an inverters total output. Fix; larger inverter or second inverter in parallel.

Thanks for your reply. I replaced the Growatt temporarily with my 2200W Giandel inverter and the problem disappeared. The Growatt inverter was returned earlier this year. After lots of troubleshooting, there was no resolution. I ended up purchasing a system based on Victron Energy components, and everything works perfectly. Thank you and Merry Christmas!

 

[Zwy]

The problem with refrigerators is low run amps vs high start up amps. If a frig runs at 10A then its start amps is about 40A. If frig a is running at 10A and frig b is trying to start at 40A guess what. 10A + 40A = 50A on an inverter rated at 25A output. Any inductive unit will have to figured into an inverters total output. Fix; larger inverter or second inverter in parallel.

I forgot all about this thread but see it has come back to life. Which might be a blessing as it gives time to think about what is occurring as we gain experience and knowledge about these systems.

One thing that comes to mind in all of these smaller systems is many people are installing these 120V output units singularly. You don't hear of these type of problems with parallel units. (But I have heard of a couple flicker problems; very low loads however with cheaper LED bulbs, didn't matter what brand inverter, complete opposite situation)

Why? Possibly it is due to phasing when operating units in parallel combined with large inductive loads, unlike a single unit operating multiple inductive loads on 120V.

 

[Kornbread]

I thought this flickering issue was a fairly common issue with some Growatts? Several threads/videos/posts about it. Generally occurs when the unit is under light load. Mentioned in this vid.

 

[coolbz]

My Growatt 3000 48v system is having issue in inverter mode as well.

My sound system receiver has been having humming noise and is sending out smoke and lots of heat today. I had to turn it off. These issues only happens when using power from Growatt in inverter mode, not AC bypass.

I suspect Growatt inverter have quality issue of not producing pure wine wave.

 

[iamrich]

With my LV2424 my LED lighting only flickers when there is very little load on the system. I have 9 led cans (100w total) and if I turn my laptop or radio on the lights flicker, but if I turn one more thing on it goes away. It is really odd...

 

[Zwy]

I thought this flickering issue was a fairly common issue with some Growatts? Several threads/videos/posts about it. Generally occurs when the unit is under light load. Mentioned in this vid.

I watched about 16 mins and couldn't take it anymore. 16 mins of my life I won't get back.

He found his flicker was due to his inverter mini split running.

I won't get into the lack of battery capacity or PV. I think he made some poor planning and decisions, then blames the GW for it.

 

[Kornbread]

I watched about 16 mins and couldn't take it anymore. 16 mins of my life I won't get back.

He found his flicker was due to his inverter mini split running.

I won't get into the lack of battery capacity or PV. I think he made some poor planning and decisions, then blames the GW for it.

Poor planing or not, apparently, it's not only him having the issue. Is what he says about the waveform true?

 

[sparrowhawk]

I watched about 16 mins and couldn't take it anymore. 16 mins of my life I won't get back.

He found his flicker was due to his inverter mini split running.

I won't get into the lack of battery capacity or PV. I think he made some poor planning and decisions, then blames the GW for it.

Well the flickering my not seem like a problem to you when it's caused by using an a mini split but it's also can be caused be using a refrigerator. I don't know where the battery capacity or pv comes in either, and the planning??

Did you catch the part where his GW doesn't start charging unless he has at least 200 watts being generated by his panels. I supposed you blame that on his lack of pv? Well I'm over paneled by about 2000 watts and sometimes it takes over 400 watts before one of my inverters will begin charging, while the other only takes a fraction of a watt. It sucks because on a cloudy day I could lose a few thousand watts of charging if the power generated doesn't make it above the 400 watt mark which has happened.

You really just sound like a GW fan boy. I can tell you from experience that not all GWs perform as well as they should and I have multiple problems with mine besides the charging & flickering issue.

I have 2x24 volt 3000watt GWs in split phase with 6000 watts of solar and 26 kilowatts of battery, is that enough solar & battery for you? Or did I poorly plan also?

 

[Zwy]

Poor planing or not, apparently, it's not only him having the issue. Is what he says about the waveform true?

He should use his Oscilloscope and check sine on grid power. He will probably see the exact same thing. Why? Because of the inductive load from his inverter mini split. Inverter compressors in mini splits, refrigerators, freezers use a DC converter comprised of transistors that switch on/off for phasing of the DC motor. While inductors and capacitors will help with electrical noise on the power supply, there still will be some noise.

As for LED flicker, you missed the part where the Victron also had LED flicker. The flicker can be due to cheap LED lighting, if you look at the videos DMI has out, he had flicker, moving to a higher quality LED light solved his.

You can find many different factors can cause the flicker from N-G bonding issues, poor power connections; basically anything in the house can cause it. Inductive loads will create it and with inverters of small Kw capacity, it will be more pronounced.

 

[Kornbread]

As an aside, I own a 6k split phase GW. Not up and running yet, but I purchased it knowing it is built to meet a very competitive price point.

Admittedly, it's been a while since watching that particular vid. Anyhow, what about the frigs supposedly ko'd by the GW? Are there other AIOs having similar issues? I'm in the camp that a product released into the wild should be able to 'cleanly?' power the likely equipment it will be associated with, without issue.

Shrug ... which leads back to that first statement ... knowing it is built to meet a very competitive price point.

 

[Bo_Hunter]

I own an MPP Solar PIP 2424LV-MSD that is completely off grid and have been troubleshooting this same flickering / voltage variance. Like @iamrich states, the issue comes in when there is low load on my system. The specific trigger is going from 300 watts of load or more down to 95 - 150 watts of load. When this happens suddenly (turn off the light switch, the AC shuts off, etc.) the inverter goes wonky and starts ranging the output voltage from ~105v to 130v ... sometimes (70% yes / 30% no). When this is happening, the problem goes away once a heavy load is put back on.

I have done several tests to find the above trigger and feel confident in what I have found. I can repeat the trigger / issue with ~70% success rate of triggering it on the first try.

I have @150 watts of overhead LED lights and a window A/C unit (~350 - 500 watts while running) along with a 12 cu ft upright freezer (~98 watts continuous) and a 7cu ft chest freezer (~55 watts continuous) all on the same 20 amp circuit. With all of these powered up and running, everything is super stable. If the A/C AND the overhead lights are both running, you can shut off either on and the problem will never happen. If you are only running one or the other and the freezers, about 70% of the time when the lights or A/C turn off, the inverter cannot properly adjust from the higher load to the lower load and goes into the voltage ranging issue. The only way to get back out of it is to either turn everything off and do a complete cold start, or to add a significant load back onto the inverter and it will then drive up to the new load and stabilize. I have taken the freezers out of the mix and put a 100 watt incandescent bulb in their place and have successfully repeated the trigger with both shutting off the AC (no overhead lights) and shutting off the overhead lights (no AC running) and the 100 watt incandescent bulb will flicker and the voltage output on the solar charge controller shows output voltage ranging from 105v to 130v rapidly.

This is where I am at with discovery. Just now starting to research online and found this thread first. Also see several other threads related to this topic. So, I'm clearly not the only one seeing this issue and MPP Solar is not the only manufacturer with this issue.

Again, this system is completely off-grid and is not fed by nor tied to any utility power. Full system details below.
Solar Panels: 6 Rich Solar 200w panels - 2 banks of 3 for a total VOC of 135v (just at the max for the 2424LV and sometimes over the max if I am not drawing power from the panels and have to do a cold start in full sunshine.
Two 8s 24v 120AH LiFePO4 battery banks with OverKill Solar BMS units. These packs are in parallel and
MPP Solar PIP 2424LV-MSD - above solar panels coming into PV in, the 2 battery banks are paralleled and coming into the battery connectors.
The output from the solar charge controller is going to a small breaker box with 2 circuits in it. One circuit feeds the A/C and the other feeds everything else. (So, the A/C and the lights are on different "circuits" if you will - but not really).