Growatt MIN series battery requirements

[Spanish Flyer]

Thanks a lot MajicDiver,
Today I received confirmation from Growatt Spain that it is no problem not having solar panels and charge the batteries from the grid (in my case from the other three inverters during the day)..

 

[LydMekk]

Thanks a lot MajicDiver,
Today I received confirmation from Growatt Spain that it is no problem not having solar panels and charge the batteries from the grid (in my case from the other three inverters during the day)..

Hi from Malaga! In my 3xSPF 5000ES I can put the grid charging on a timer from f.ex. 01:00 to 07:00 in the morning to pull from the grid to charge the batteries at the cheapest rate in the day. You probably have the same option in your inverter.
But, the panels are the way to go. I am finally at 0,- in consumption from Endesa. My system is 3-phase with 3 linked Growatts.
I would highly recommend 2xbattery capacity vs. solar max wattage though.

 

[MajicDiver]

Hi from Malaga! In my 3xSPF 5000ES I can put the grid charging on a timer from f.ex. 01:00 to 07:00 in the morning to pull from the grid to charge the batteries at the cheapest rate in the day. You probably have the same option in your inverter.
But, the panels are the way to go. I am finally at 0,- in consumption from Endesa. My system is 3-phase with 3 linked Growatts.
I would highly recommend 2xbattery capacity vs. solar max wattage though.

Yes, u can do the same with the MIN-XH-US but I don’t

 

[stiive]

Would love to get a copy of the RS485/CAN comms between the ARO and the MIN TL-XH.
Seems to me there is no integrated charge controller, and it just outputs a voltage somewhere between 360-500VDC (nom 400VDC), and the battery requires to do its own current control via DCDC.
I am wondering if for a third party ESS if you cant just turn on the output through the enable pins, and then implement your own DCDC as long as current is below 17A should be fine?... but obviously it wants RS485 communication for SOC so it wont over charge or discharge, and ascertain the current limit. I guess this is the comms we need to reverse engineer for adding DIY battery.

Manual says;
"6.5.3 Connecting to Battery Pack
This series inverter support to connect lithium ion battery pack, the lithium ion battery
pack has its own battery management system, the bidirectional DC/DC box connect to
battery pack by RS485 or CAN,the XH series inverters connect to DC-DC box by
RS485. In addition, XH series inverters also have a pair of signals for waking up the"

 

[stiive]

if anyone can put a RS485 sniffer on the line that would be greatly appreciated

 

[van-traveler86]

im installing a growatt system with aro battery i would love to help with this but no idea how to do this if you can point me to what tool i need and software to do this i can do it.

 

[stiive]

That would be great! You don't really need any expensive hardware... most sniffer devices offer the function.

Here is a good resource for turning a cheap Arduino into a sniffer including build notes and source code... he paid 4 euros for the RS-485 to UART adapter.

RS485 sniffer

Would be a fun project, and much appreciated by community i'm sure

the first comment is also interesting;
"Just wanted to say what a fantastic project. I am implementing solar panels at home and a battery storage system. None of the Hybrid 3 phase inverters will allow programmatic control of export values for battery storage (i.e. dump my batteries to the grid to enable me to take advantage of a high FIT) - however using your approach here i should be able to sit as the man in the middle and fake the info from the house monitoring CT clamps and overstate my usage to the inverter - thus fooling it into dumping battery output to the grid. Thanks for putting me on the right track"

 

[summit]

what's Growatt motivation to implement DCDC from 48v pack to 400vdc ? I was hoping there's a user battery option to use my EV as the battery pack. It seems an RS485 intercept is needed

 

[pdp1173]

what's Growatt motivation to implement DCDC from 48v pack to 400vdc ? I was hoping there's a user battery option to use my EV as the battery pack. It seems an RS485 intercept is needed

Growatt and many others do it for two reasons:

1) Because of 10x higher voltage you may use cables as thin as the PV cables (and same connectors) even with 5000+ W power from the batteries. Plus they can use same M4 connectores. Saves a lot on cables, equipment and manpower to install and reduces possible problems like bad contacts etc.

2) Since 48V BMS based systems are very widespread the manufacturers love to have back closed setups with no public protocols on the BMS to inverter RS486/CAN Bus communications. This allows them to much better control the market and lower their costs to support third party hardware. Growatt now simply states "ohh... you do not have our featured batteries on your SPH? Then there is no support for your problem..." . It is as simple as this. The procols are kept secret with almost death penalty for publishing. At least many (Growatt-) support members act like this.

There seems to be no standard for High Voltage Batterie coupling soon. :-(

Growatt did once manufacture an open 48V DC-DC converter named MIN3000 BDC DL . It allowed to connect standard 48V batteries (Pylontech CAN Bus BMS) to the high voltage Growatt MIN xxxx TL-XH But it disappeared very quick from the market.

 

[MajicDiver]

I made a “baby step” attempt at getting started with reverse engineering the Growatt MIN-US rs-485 modbus protocol. I started with the communication to the power meter, thought it would be an easier place to start than the battery communications. I was able to capture the modbus messages but the share-ware software sniffer I used crashed after a couple of seconds each time I connected it - the communications are high speed. When time permits I’ll look for something better. Curious if anyone else has gotten past first base on reverse engineering the battery communications?

 

[porchMan]

I made a “baby step” attempt at getting started with reverse engineering the Growatt MIN-US rs-485 modbus protocol. I started with the communication to the power meter, thought it would be an easier place to start than the battery communications. I was able to capture the modbus messages but the share-ware software sniffer I used crashed after a couple of seconds each time I connected it - the communications are high speed. When time permits I’ll look for something better. Curious if anyone else has gotten past first base on reverse engineering the battery communications?

I'm also interested in sniffing the battery communication on the MIN, but I haven't purchased one yet.
If there was a workaround to get 3rd party batteries to work it this inverter I would by it in a heart beat. I'm also trying to suss out how good the high frequency filtering is on the unit. Is there any chance you could take some pictures of the main board so I could see how large the capacitor bank is?
Sorry for the off topic request... How has your experience with the MIN-US been generally?

 

[MajicDiver]

That area of the inverter is sealed, kills warranty if opened.
Other than the relatively expensive battery and lack of plug/play 3rd party battery options, I like the system a lot. It’s been 100% hands off except when I added battery modules or PV. It just works. None of the seemingly endless “blips” I read about folks having with other systems discussed on this forum. Before I maxed out the PV inputs, it routinely produced max rated output of the panels, new panels at summer angle on clear day. Your discussions of ac ripple causing failure to achieve max output go over my head technically and I am unsure if it’s B/S or something to study……but I’ve now got about 2.1x the panels I’ll ever have load for and get battery (19.8 kWh soon to add another 9.9) charged easily on winter days like today with panels at summer angle. I travel a lot for work and play and want a system I can walk away from without concern and you can with this one. I plan to use a EG4 battery for the second module on my second inverter (6k min-us)

 

[porchMan]

That area of the inverter is sealed, kills warranty if opened.
Other than the relatively expensive battery and lack of plug/play 3rd party battery options, I like the system a lot. It’s been 100% hands off except when I added battery modules or PV. It just works. None of the seemingly endless “blips” I read about folks having with other systems discussed on this forum. Before I maxed out the PV inputs, it routinely produced max rated output of the panels, new panels at summer angle on clear day. Your discussions of ac ripple causing failure to achieve max output go over my head technically and I am unsure if it’s B/S or something to study……but I’ve now got about 2.1x the panels I’ll ever have load for and get battery (19.8 kWh soon to add another 9.9) charged easily on winter days like today with panels at summer angle. I travel a lot for work and play and want a system I can walk away from without concern and you can with this one. I plan to use a EG4 battery for the second module on my second inverter (6k min-us)

Oh bummer, I understand, I do wonder whats going on inside there though.
Yeah honestly that thread got a bit over my head too, and hearing that you're able to produce the max output of your panels makes the point mostly moot. That's also great to hear that the inverter has been trouble free, thanks for commenting.
Can I ask what your system set up is now? How do you plan on using EG4 batteries with your second inverter?

 

[MajicDiver]

Can I ask what your system set up is now? How do you plan on using EG4 batteries with your second inverter?

System is described in my profile. Will be putting 9.9 kWh ARO on the 6k-MIN in a week or so when it is delivered. All the charge/discharge totalization and retention for the battery appears to be done in the BMS and communicated to the inverter- I believe if a EG4 or similar battery were put in parallel with the three ARO batteries the inverter won’t know the difference. I’m semi retired now, will be fully retired in 6 months or so, will have time to figure it out then.

 

[El Escribano]

Hi again from Spain,
I have just hanged up a Growatt-MIN-5000TL-XH and almost broke my back putting the ARK HV (high voltage) battery with three modules together 7.5 kW in total.
I'm disabled due to a motorcycle accident, so I cannot climb up the roof to install the 14 x 455 W panels; the guy who was supposed to come and install them is very busy and may take a while to show up.....So in the mean time, can you tell me if I can connect the Inverter and battery to the grid, and can at least charge and use the battery? FYI, my grid consists on external grid and three more 5KW inverters and 52 panels of all sorts (since I started my solar "career" in 2017), in such a way that during the day I have enough "sun-power" to fill all the house needs. I say that because the ARK battery would be charged using only solar power from the other inverters for the time being.
My guess is that PV power is not a must to make this Growatt run, but I just want to make sure.. ; )
My aim is and you might have guessed it by now is to get rid of the grid altogether one of these days.
Thanks and B.R.
Spanish Flyer

Hi, Spanish Flyer, MajicDiver and others that might be able to help.
BTW, I am also in Spain.
I (foolishly I think) decided to forego learning too much about solar and let my installer come up with a quotation. Based on a desire to zero my electricity bill (like MajicDiver) my only two requests were that it should include a 10Kw solar array and that I should be able to add batteries at a later date. He came up with a quote for the panels, etc., two Growatt MIN 5000TL-XH inverters, two breaker boxes (one for each inverter AC circuit), running to an Eastron 230Modbus smart meter, which then connects to the house load and the grid meter. I went ahead and this was completed in March 2022. Once I finally got an ethernet cable up to the solar hut in November, I was able to confirm that the system is operating reasonably well.
To cut to the chase and because the price of electricity in Spain is now around 50 cents (inclusive of VAT) a KWh, I decided I wanted batteries this autumn. So I called Autosolar en Valencia on the phone and they told me that I needed their there ARK 2.5H-A1 HV batteries and BMS, and I bought three 2.5 KWh modules and the BMS. However, I was then informed by Growatt aftersales service in Spain that their ARK 2.5H-A1 HV and BMS would not work because I have two inverters not one, even if I only connect the Growatt battery bank to one of the inverters. It's all been a bit of a shock to me. I thought this would just be plug and play, but now I'm starting to get an idea of the state of play (steep learning curve! I am not a born electrician or engineer by any means).
Since I do not want to spend a fortune changing the inverters and the battery bank and I no longer trust the installer (I had to connect the comms from the smart meter and change the baud rate), I would very much appreciate you letting me know if there is another solution to this problem, or confirming that the solutions I have gleaned from other sources are viable.
One solution sent to me schematically (not a wiring diagram) by one of the staff at the shop is attached.
Another solution that I thought if myself is to split the inverters by having two separate Eastron 230Modbus smart meters which I assume would enable me to have two separate plants on the ShinePhone app that I could just add up to monitor the system, but I do not have a clue as to whether this would work.
Please let me know what you think if you think you can help me to clear up some concepts here. The inverters are great and so simple. Additionally the idea suggested by Majicdiver I may be able to add any batteries I want as long as they add up to the equivalent voltage and amperage of the Growatt modules and do not exceed the 7 units advised by Growatt is very promising. Majicdiver, please tell me more!

 

[El Escribano]

System is described in my profile. Will be putting 9.9 kWh ARO on the 6k-MIN in a week or so when it is delivered. All the charge/discharge totalization and retention for the battery appears to be done in the BMS and communicated to the inverter- I believe if a EG4 or similar battery were put in parallel with the three ARO batteries the inverter won’t know the difference. I’m semi retired now, will be fully retired in 6 months or so, will have time to figure it out then.

Hi, Spanish Flyer, MajicDiver and others that might be able to help.
BTW, I am also in Spain.
I (foolishly I think) decided to forego learning too much about solar and let my installer come up with a quotation. Based on a desire to zero my electricity bill (like MajicDiver) my only two requests were that it should include a 10Kw solar array and that I should be able to add batteries at a later date. He came up with a quote for the panels, etc., two Growatt MIN 5000TL-XH inverters, two breaker boxes (one for each inverter AC circuit), running to an Eastron 230Modbus smart meter, which then connects to the house load and the grid meter. I went ahead and this was completed in March 2022. Once I finally got an ethernet cable up to the solar hut in November, I was able to confirm that the system is operating reasonably well.
To cut to the chase and because the price of electricity in Spain is now around 50 cents (inclusive of VAT) a KWh, I decided I wanted batteries this autumn. So I called Autosolar en Valencia on the phone and they told me that I needed their there ARK 2.5H-A1 HV batteries and BMS, and I bought three 2.5 KWh modules and the BMS. However, I was then informed by Growatt aftersales service in Spain that their ARK 2.5H-A1 HV and BMS would not work because I have two inverters not one, even if I only connect the Growatt battery bank to one of the inverters. It's all been a bit of a shock to me. I thought this would just be plug and play, but now I'm starting to get an idea of the state of play (steep learning curve! I am not a born electrician or engineer by any means).
Since I do not want to spend a fortune changing the inverters and the battery bank and I no longer trust the installer (I had to connect the comms from the smart meter and change the baud rate), I would very much appreciate you letting me know if there is another solution to this problem, or confirming that the solutions I have gleaned from other sources are viable.
One solution sent to me schematically (not a wiring diagram) by one of the staff at the shop is attached.
Another solution that I thought if myself is to split the inverters by having two separate Eastron 230Modbus smart meters which I assume would enable me to have two separate plants on the ShinePhone app that I could just add up to monitor the system, but I do not have a clue as to whether this would work.
Please let me know what you think if you think you can help me to clear up some concepts here. The inverters are great and so simple. Additionally the idea suggested by Majicdiver I may be able to add any batteries I want as long as they add up to the equivalent voltage and amperage of the Growatt modules and do not exceed the 7 units advised by Growatt is very promising. Majicdiver, please tell me more!

 

[El Escribano]

I asked this as a side topic on another thread, but I thought it was meaningful enough to put here for future readers to find this topic.

I am looking at the Growatt MIN series inverters to recommend for friends. The specs and pricing is fantastic. The 11.4kW version is under $1500. It has built-in inverter, charger, stackable, even AC coupling mode. What a bargain considering I just dropped almost $7k on a Sol-Ark 12k unit (not complaining, it's great).

HOWEVER, there is one blaring issue with the MIN series. From my communications with Growatt support, it only supports working with the Growatt ARO series batteries. And they are proud of those batteries, a 10 kW-hr battery is $6k+. That's 2 or 3 times what you can find comparable LiFePo batteries at.

So my question to the community, does anyone know if the MIN series inverters will work with generic LiFePo batteries?

Edit: I should add it is the MIN 11400-TL-XH-US.

There's another problem too with the Growatt Min hybrid series. Apparently, if you have more than one connected to the same smart meter and you connect their HV battery stack to one of the inverters, it doesn't work! I'm still not sure why and I'm trying to find out. I have a 10KW array and two Growatt MIN 5000 TL-XH inverters that the installer said I could easily retrofit with the Growatt HV batteries and BMS, but you can't! I have a string on here dedicated to trying to find a solution to this problem. Any help would be appreciated.

 

[El Escribano]

From what I was able to find, it looks like they only work with Growatt batteries. Well, at least that is all that is officially 'supported'. It may be possible to trick it to work with others but I did not find anyone who has tried it.

Hi again from Spain,
I have just hanged up a Growatt-MIN-5000TL-XH and almost broke my back putting the ARK HV (high voltage) battery with three modules together 7.5 kW in total.
I'm disabled due to a motorcycle accident, so I cannot climb up the roof to install the 14 x 455 W panels; the guy who was supposed to come and install them is very busy and may take a while to show up.....So in the mean time, can you tell me if I can connect the Inverter and battery to the grid, and can at least charge and use the battery? FYI, my grid consists on external grid and three more 5KW inverters and 52 panels of all sorts (since I started my solar "career" in 2017), in such a way that during the day I have enough "sun-power" to fill all the house needs. I say that because the ARK battery would be charged using only solar power from the other inverters for the time being.
My guess is that PV power is not a must to make this Growatt run, but I just want to make sure.. ; )
My aim is and you might have guessed it by now is to get rid of the grid altogether one of these days.
Thanks and B.R.
Spanish Flyer

Spanish Flyer, I would particularly like to know what solution you found to using your Growatt MIN 5000 with your other inverters.
Thanks.

 

[MajicDiver]

Hi, Spanish Flyer, MajicDiver and others that might be able to help.
BTW, I am also in Spain.
I (foolishly I think) decided to forego learning too much about solar and let my installer come up with a quotation. Based on a desire to zero my electricity bill (like MajicDiver) my only two requests were that it should include a 10Kw solar array and that I should be able to add batteries at a later date. He came up with a quote for the panels, etc., two Growatt MIN 5000TL-XH inverters, two breaker boxes (one for each inverter AC circuit), running to an Eastron 230Modbus smart meter, which then connects to the house load and the grid meter. I went ahead and this was completed in March 2022. Once I finally got an ethernet cable up to the solar hut in November, I was able to confirm that the system is operating reasonably well.
To cut to the chase and because the price of electricity in Spain is now around 50 cents (inclusive of VAT) a KWh, I decided I wanted batteries this autumn. So I called Autosolar en Valencia on the phone and they told me that I needed their there ARK 2.5H-A1 HV batteries and BMS, and I bought three 2.5 KWh modules and the BMS. However, I was then informed by Growatt aftersales service in Spain that their ARK 2.5H-A1 HV and BMS would not work because I have two inverters not one, even if I only connect the Growatt battery bank to one of the inverters. It's all been a bit of a shock to me. I thought this would just be plug and play, but now I'm starting to get an idea of the state of play (steep learning curve! I am not a born electrician or engineer by any means).
Since I do not want to spend a fortune changing the inverters and the battery bank and I no longer trust the installer (I had to connect the comms from the smart meter and change the baud rate), I would very much appreciate you letting me know if there is another solution to this problem, or confirming that the solutions I have gleaned from other sources are viable.
One solution sent to me schematically (not a wiring diagram) by one of the staff at the shop is attached.
Another solution that I thought if myself is to split the inverters by having two separate Eastron 230Modbus smart meters which I assume would enable me to have two separate plants on the ShinePhone app that I could just add up to monitor the system, but I do not have a clue as to whether this would work.
Please let me know what you think if you think you can help me to clear up some concepts here. The inverters are great and so simple. Additionally the idea suggested by Majicdiver I may be able to add any batteries I want as long as they add up to the equivalent voltage and amperage of the Growatt modules and do not exceed the 7 units advised by Growatt is very promising. Majicdiver, please tell me more!

First, your inverter is not the same inverter sold in the US, but similar. I am using two MIN-TL-XH-US inverters, each with its on power meter. Currently only one has a battery, the 19.8 ARO. They work just fine together. Plan to add a battery to the second in a week or so when it arrives. I see no reason you can’t use both of yours in the same manner

 

[El Escribano]

First, your inverter is not the same inverter sold in the US, but similar. I am using two MIN-TL-XH-US inverters, each with its on power meter. Currently only one has a battery, the 19.8 ARO. They work just fine together. Plan to add a battery to the second in a week or so when it arrives. I see no reason you can’t use both of yours in the same manner

Notwithstanding that you have the US version, it sounds like you have exactly the set up that I thought should work for my inverters (with separate power metres between the inverters, the power company meter and the house load). As I see it, this would be like two separate solar plants and should work (my 10KW array is split into two 5KW arrays). Let me know how it worked out with second battery for the second inverter will you. Thanks for that prompt reply.

 

[MajicDiver]

Let me know how it worked out with second battery for the second inverter will you.

Got it this morning and working this afternoon. They are both grid tied, using separate power meters. Works without instability, but the arrangement is that each inverter is tied to a separate panel, 1 to the main panel, the other to a subpanel off of it. the meter for one is on the incoming feed to the main panel, the other’s meter is on the feed from the main panel to subpanel. If grid is lost I can feed my auto transformer with the off grid output of either inverter - currently setup to do that with breakers manually.

 

[El Escribano]

Got it this morning and working this afternoon. They are both grid tied, using separate power meters. Works without instability, but the arrangement is that each inverter is tied to a separate panel, 1 to the main panel, the other to a subpanel off of it. the meter for one is on the incoming feed to the main panel, the other’s meter is on the feed from the main panel to subpanel. If grid is lost I can feed my auto transformer with the off grid output of either inverter - currently setup to do that with breakers manually.

Thanks, MajicDiver. Any chance you can publish a circuit diagram of your set up, for people like me that find it almost impossible to visualise this set up without a diagram? If it were detailed enough to show the wiring, that would be fantastic.

I've just been talking to a young lad from the Growatt dealer shop who says that you cannot just install two power meters side by side at the same point in the circuit (which from what I gather you have not done). He explained the reason why to me, but to be honest it went right over my head. I've never been a natural when it comes to electronics, although I'm starting to get my head around it a little with my solar installation.
The story gets worse BTW. Because I was hoping that the problem I had with my batteries was purely a software issue, I left my new Growatt battery bank on in the hope that someone from Growatt could reconfigure the inverter remotely and that everything would just start working. Unfortunately, what actually happened was that my batteries discharged almost completely, so I am sending them back to the shop because apparently the only way they can be recharged (HV batteries) is by "balancing" them up to a viable voltage by stacking them up with other charged battery modules. They are HV batteries, which means, there is no way in the world that I could somehow trickle charge them by disconnecting them from the BMS -thought you might find it amusing to read just how badly we amateurs can fall at the first fence.
I am so looking forward to zeroing my electricity bill.
Happy New Year!

 

[MajicDiver]

Thanks, MajicDiver. Any chance you can publish a circuit diagram of your set up, for people like me that find it almost impossible to visualise this set up without a diagram? If it were detailed enough to show the wiring, that would be fantastic.

I've just been talking to a young lad from the Growatt dealer shop who says that you cannot just install two power meters side by side at the same point in the circuit (which from what I gather you have not done). He explained the reason why to me, but to be honest it went right over my head. I've never been a natural when it comes to electronics, although I'm starting to get my head around it a little with my solar installation.
The story gets worse BTW. Because I was hoping that the problem I had with my batteries was purely a software issue, I left my new Growatt battery bank on in the hope that someone from Growatt could reconfigure the inverter remotely and that everything would just start working. Unfortunately, what actually happened was that my batteries discharged almost completely, so I am sending them back to the shop because apparently the only way they can be recharged (HV batteries) is by "balancing" them up to a viable voltage by stacking them up with other charged battery modules. They are HV batteries, which means, there is no way in the world that I could somehow trickle charge them by disconnecting them from the BMS -thought you might find it amusing to read just how badly we amateurs can fall at the first fence.
I am so looking forward to zeroing my electricity bill.
Happy New Year!

I intend to produce an electrical one line drawing of my entire system in next month or so, primarily so my sons can understand it if they have to deal with it as I get older. Will post it to you when I do.

 

[El Escribano]

I intend to produce an electrical one line drawing of my entire system in next month or so, primarily so my sons can understand it if they have to deal with it as I get older. Will post it to you when I do.

I intend to produce an electrical one line drawing of my entire system in next month or so, primarily so my sons can understand it if they have to deal with it as I get older. Will post it to you when I do.

I'll look forward to that. At this rate, it's possible that I still will not have solved my battery predicament by then, but I'm getting older too (63 pushing 64).

 

[van-traveler86]

I'll look forward to that. At this rate, it's possible that I still will not have solved my battery predicament by then, but I'm getting older too (63 pushing 64).

you still young!