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Heat pump amps spiking (Fixed)

It's a Miami HP, 2.5tons. No inverter compressor but i did install a soft start and starts up fine on the inverter. 1 circ pump. 7.1amp draw, spikes to 10 when in charge mode. 15kwh battery.
So is it the circ pump that is doing the 3A spiking to 10A actually? Is the circ pump an inverter type That can ramp up & down? &/or is there a problem in the circ pump? I dont really think the pump is the problem, but more likely as has been mentioned, its to do with how the pump or combination of components in system are affecting the waveform & PF At certain times.
It’s a stab in the dark, but could it be dc ripple issues from inverter? I use Maxwell caps as a buffer close to inverter to help absorb/filter these potential issues and believe it helps soften the surges placed on the batteries too and also helps with charging. I dont hear of people using capacitors much nowadays, are they becoming a thing of the past? Ive also done some experimenting with caps on the PV side with some good results more recently for various situations. I haven’t had issues with erratic voltages as some people have reported from their BMS’s or shunts that I believe is mostly due to DC ripple, I am using JK BMS’s mostly and have not had the radical voltage reporting issues I have heard others have. If ur up for giving some decent capacitors a go, it can only make for a better system even if it doesn’t clear up your present problem. Cheers
 
So is it the circ pump that is doing the 3A spiking to 10A actually? Is the circ pump an inverter type That can ramp up & down? &/or is there a problem in the circ pump? I dont really think the pump is the problem, but more likely as has been mentioned, its to do with how the pump or combination of components in system are affecting the waveform & PF At certain times.
It’s a stab in the dark, but could it be dc ripple issues from inverter? I use Maxwell caps as a buffer close to inverter to help absorb/filter these potential issues and believe it helps soften the surges placed on the batteries too and also helps with charging. I dont hear of people using capacitors much nowadays, are they becoming a thing of the past? Ive also done some experimenting with caps on the PV side with some good results more recently for various situations. I haven’t had issues with erratic voltages as some people have reported from their BMS’s or shunts that I believe is mostly due to DC ripple, I am using JK BMS’s mostly and have not had the radical voltage reporting issues I have heard others have. If ur up for giving some decent capacitors a go, it can only make for a better system even if it doesn’t clear up your present problem. Cheers
It's the heat pump itself that is spiking in amps due to the voltage drop. I do have 2 circulation pump actually. 1 for the desuperheater and one for the loop pump. Actually when the voltage drop occurs the whole house is affected, all from just using the heat pump when the amps is in a net positive amp flow to the battery. So if I am making 34 amps dc from solar and I am using the heat pump which pulls 32 amps dc, the difference is +2 so the inverter will start dropping voltage, or spiking up and down. Ian thinks the emi filter will fix it.
 
Could the JK bms cause an issue like this? I do have a new 150amp version that I ordered as backup.
Does your JK BMS communicate with ur AIO? I have heard of voltage sensing issues sometimes with the JK’s, I believe it is listed in their manuals that this can be caused by some inverters dc ripple. I am not aware of it causing any other problems than incorrect volts and amps readings from BMS under certain loads, but if ur JK communicates with ur inverter, I can grasp how this could possibly cause problems if the BMS is reporting incorrect data. If u can notice lights dimming when this happens, it sounds like ur running out of battery power or inverter power while under the large loads, which is why I suggested capacitors earlier to maybe help with the surges. I wonder if you do need a bit more battery grunt for ur setup as someone suggested earlier? Do you have another controller? you could try setting up to 1 or 2 of ur strings separately to the battery and see if this helps, I know this could cause a conflict in SOC readings between BMS and inverter, but could be worth a try to resolve the issue and still keep charging if/when u can. Im not sure how helpful MPP will be, but i hope u get it sorted.
 
Does your JK BMS communicate with ur AIO? I have heard of voltage sensing issues sometimes with the JK’s, I believe it is listed in their manuals that this can be caused by some inverters dc ripple. I am not aware of it causing any other problems than incorrect volts and amps readings from BMS under certain loads, but if ur JK communicates with ur inverter, I can grasp how this could possibly cause problems if the BMS is reporting incorrect data. If u can notice lights dimming when this happens, it sounds like ur running out of battery power or inverter power while under the large loads, which is why I suggested capacitors earlier to maybe help with the surges. I wonder if you do need a bit more battery grunt for ur setup as someone suggested earlier? Do you have another controller? you could try setting up to 1 or 2 of ur strings separately to the battery and see if this helps, I know this could cause a conflict in SOC readings between BMS and inverter, but could be worth a try to resolve the issue and still keep charging if/when u can. Im not sure how helpful MPP will be, but i hope u get it sorted.
I don't have the bms communicating with the inverter. I was only going to set it up to monitor via solar assistant only. 15k battery should be way sufficient. No other controller i'm afraid. MPP now wants me to send them data from their ancient solarpower software which requires a com port but i will have to see if their usb port works. I don't have an rs232 to usb cable.
 
Motors don't like high frequency inverters. While it's a bit of a shot in the dark, it sounds like everything is at this point, so consider adding an autotransformer to the system. The additional inductance may provide the amount of filtering needed to get the inverter's algorithms in line. I'm not sure this will do much, below is my napkin analysis, but I've found that a lot of off-grid systems, particularly high frequency, don't have enough inductance in their system to make every load happy, and an autotransformer solves a surprising amount of weird, annoying, but non-critical problems such as the one you're experiencing.

Going back to fundamentals, the "inverter" is actually an AC/DC (probably reversible) inverter, and a solar charge controller. If the inverter isn't reversible, then an AC charge controller may be found as a 3rd component as well, but this is rare these days. While there's only one interface, the reality is that these two components are controlled by separate microcontrollers, with separate firmware, different operating modes, different operating frequencies, different priorities and alorithms, etc.

Given that your problem only seems to occur when the power is coming primarily from the solar, then the problem is likely the interaction between the inverter and the solar charge controller.

If you think of them as separate devices, then you recognize that at the power level, the only interaction they have with each other is on the 48VDC bus.

I'm guessing that if you put an oscilloscope on the 48VDC bus you'll find wild spikes at the inverter terminals, and these spikes are causing the inverter and/or the solar charger to switch between operating modes thousands of times a second as the apparent battery voltage changes. This, in turn, results in audible noise as the capacitors vibrate while they absorb and discharge the spikes as much as they are able.

If that's the case, then the solution is to stabilize the DC bus.

Unfortunately, with an all-in-one, the DC bus between the two interacting components of the inverter are inseparable, and can't easily be brought out and filtered. The capacitors in the inverter are intended to provide this filter/buffer, however in cheaper inverters they typically don't use high quality capacitors, so they are slow to absorb and release energy, allowing particularly high frequency noise through.

So let's focus on what we can change. Tell us about your DC side - what are the lengths and gauges of the wire going between the inverter and the batteries? What are the capacity and rated input/output (Amps, continuous) of the batteries? What, if any, components lie between the actual cells and the inverter (include BMS, fuses, disconnects, wire/bus transitions, etc)?

The solution may be increased battery capacity (you have at least 200AH, right?), higher quality batteries, decreasing the resistance between the cells and the inverter (thicker wire, fewer connections, star arrangement rather than daisy chain, anti-ox coatings, tighten the connections), or perhaps a high frequency, high power capacitor setup at the inverter battery connection. Do NOT put ferrite or other filtering anywhere on the DC lines - this will make the problem (if this is the problem) worse.

Or it could be none of these, but having read what you've tried and how your system is setup, this is the route I'd pursue were I in your shoes.
 
I don't have the bms communicating with the inverter. I was only going to set it up to monitor via solar assistant only. 15k battery should be way sufficient. No other controller i'm afraid. MPP now wants me to send them data from their ancient solarpower software which requires a com port but i will have to see if their usb port works. I don't have an rs232 to usb cable.
Ive been havin trouble getting comms with my Seplos batteries BMS’s myself, trying to get the right usb -rs485, I feel ya pain. You will get it sorted, these things can take time to figure out.
 
Motors don't like high frequency inverters. While it's a bit of a shot in the dark, it sounds like everything is at this point, so consider adding an autotransformer to the system. The additional inductance may provide the amount of filtering needed to get the inverter's algorithms in line. I'm not sure this will do much, below is my napkin analysis, but I've found that a lot of off-grid systems, particularly high frequency, don't have enough inductance in their system to make every load happy, and an autotransformer solves a surprising amount of weird, annoying, but non-critical problems such as the one you're experiencing.

Going back to fundamentals, the "inverter" is actually an AC/DC (probably reversible) inverter, and a solar charge controller. If the inverter isn't reversible, then an AC charge controller may be found as a 3rd component as well, but this is rare these days. While there's only one interface, the reality is that these two components are controlled by separate microcontrollers, with separate firmware, different operating modes, different operating frequencies, different priorities and alorithms, etc.

Given that your problem only seems to occur when the power is coming primarily from the solar, then the problem is likely the interaction between the inverter and the solar charge controller.

If you think of them as separate devices, then you recognize that at the power level, the only interaction they have with each other is on the 48VDC bus.

I'm guessing that if you put an oscilloscope on the 48VDC bus you'll find wild spikes at the inverter terminals, and these spikes are causing the inverter and/or the solar charger to switch between operating modes thousands of times a second as the apparent battery voltage changes. This, in turn, results in audible noise as the capacitors vibrate while they absorb and discharge the spikes as much as they are able.

If that's the case, then the solution is to stabilize the DC bus.

Unfortunately, with an all-in-one, the DC bus between the two interacting components of the inverter are inseparable, and can't easily be brought out and filtered. The capacitors in the inverter are intended to provide this filter/buffer, however in cheaper inverters they typically don't use high quality capacitors, so they are slow to absorb and release energy, allowing particularly high frequency noise through.

So let's focus on what we can change. Tell us about your DC side - what are the lengths and gauges of the wire going between the inverter and the batteries? What are the capacity and rated input/output (Amps, continuous) of the batteries? What, if any, components lie between the actual cells and the inverter (include BMS, fuses, disconnects, wire/bus transitions, etc)?

The solution may be increased battery capacity (you have at least 200AH, right?), higher quality batteries, decreasing the resistance between the cells and the inverter (thicker wire, fewer connections, star arrangement rather than daisy chain, anti-ox coatings, tighten the connections), or perhaps a high frequency, high power capacitor setup at the inverter battery connection. Do NOT put ferrite or other filtering anywhere on the DC lines - this will make the problem (if this is the problem) worse.

Or it could be none of these, but having read what you've tried and how your system is setup, this is the route I'd pursue were I in your shoes.
I agree with ur logic and reasoning here, dont know much about auto trans (in Australia all 240vac), but that logic also makes sense. I would pursue what you have laid out here. Cheers
 
Motors don't like high frequency inverters. While it's a bit of a shot in the dark, it sounds like everything is at this point, so consider adding an autotransformer to the system. The additional inductance may provide the amount of filtering needed to get the inverter's algorithms in line. I'm not sure this will do much, below is my napkin analysis, but I've found that a lot of off-grid systems, particularly high frequency, don't have enough inductance in their system to make every load happy, and an autotransformer solves a surprising amount of weird, annoying, but non-critical problems such as the one you're experiencing.
lvx6048 is not a high freq inverter, it is low and has the transformer. The battery is not the issue here with 15k, 280ah. I am not doing anything new. DC cables are 2/0, more than enough but it's what i had on hand.
 
EMI filter a no go. although I did not install it inside the heat pump, more like 3ft away. I do not think it will make a difference. Swapped solar panel strings and still same.
 
Well the .20uF did not work, doubt the .22 will work either...it's on it's way. As a work around I just have to use enough appliances so that the amps is negative. Rice cooker and heat pump when panels pulling in 1k or less, no voltage drop and no lights flickering. Sad I know.
 
I don't remember if we covered DC bus voltage or not. Low loads, full battery, and high array voltage can cause a lot of issues with communication between internal systems. What voltage are you setting for battery charging?
 
I don't remember if we covered DC bus voltage or not. Low loads, full battery, and high array voltage can cause a lot of issues with communication between internal systems. What voltage are you setting for battery charging?
LED light does flicker i noticed with a bit of solar coming in and not much load, full charge. I've played with the charge settings from 56-57 bulk, and 54-56.8 float. Makes no difference. At this point it might be cheaper just to get something else to run the heat pump. Certainly cheaper than a 6k inverter. The .22 cap came but not enough solar to test. I don't think it'll do anything.
 
LED light does flicker i noticed with a bit of solar coming in and not much load, full charge. I've played with the charge settings from 56-57 bulk, and 54-56.8 float. Makes no difference. At this point it might be cheaper just to get something else to run the heat pump. Certainly cheaper than a 6k inverter. The .22 cap came but not enough solar to test. I don't think it'll do anything.
I don't have high hopes, either.
But, I'm very interested in finding a solution. As it will help others in the future. Just for kicks and giggles, try 55.5 bulk and 55.4 float for one time. Just to rule it out, completely.
 
I don't have high hopes, either.
But, I'm very interested in finding a solution. As it will help others in the future. Just for kicks and giggles, try 55.5 bulk and 55.4 float for one time. Just to rule it out, completely.
Sure, easy enough and won't cost money. Might have to get me a scope too. How do I measure dc bus voltage?
 
I wouldn't try to physically measure it. You would have to open the unit, when it's running.
I was hoping you had some type of monitoring, connected to it.
 
No go on the bulk and float settings, and the correct caps did nothing. I even added a few more in parallel to increase the capacitance. The more sun the worse it gets. At this point it's either get another inverter just for the heat pump or just shutoff solar when there is a call for the heat pump. Not worth the loss if I return it. 100+ to ship it back and and unknown amount after it's checked out. I do have everything that it came with though.
 
Sorry to hear that. I'm running out of ideas, on this one.
It could just be my crappy heat pump for all we know. MPP Solar has been ignoring me ever since the .22uf suggestion. Not buying anymore of their stuff. I'm looking at Amazon next, vendors there usually give full refunds, no restocking fee bs.
 
Plugged in my portable ac and it works fine. I think I do have a dud of a heat pump. Granted the portable unit is smaller but still they both have compressors just diff types.
 
Plugged in my portable ac and it works fine. I think I do have a dud of a heat pump. Granted the portable unit is smaller but still they both have compressors just diff types.
I was leaning that way. Hopefully it can be resolved without total replacement. My guess is that there's a tiny amount of current leaking to the grounding system. Putting extra noise on the circuit.
 

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