High Ambient temperature

[asder]

Let me know if I am wrong, with my zero knowledge of electricity (oh economics when will you help out in life). Let's say we use this bi-directional meter. We have our battery pack on one side. A pure sine wave inverter in the middle. On the ac output, we rig up this bi directional meter. On the other side of the bi-directional meter we have our load/s.

Wouldn't the kwh used in the bi-directional meter be able to tell us how many kwh got used up by the load/s? Having a dc meter next to the battery would show us how many kwh the battery gave out. The difference would be our potential efficiency loss?

The reason why I brought this up. The above testing might be expensive to set up initially. But it would beat waiting for these fan testers, right? Plus it is potentially more robust as well. There is the issue of what happens when the batteries deplete and get turned off. Would the meter retain the last saved data? Or is everything wiped out? Judging from the house meters we use, the data is saved, when electricity comes back the meter starts up again, so it would just need a little power to start up again.

Possible? I presume there better testing solutions that people have developed? because testing a 14kwh with 150W will take eons. Would there be a faster and safer to test it out? Or simply use the above way minus the bi-directional meter in the setup?

 

[DThames]

I have some bi-directional meters but for some applications I am thinking two separate meters might be better. Note on this meter's ad, they show using one to record charging and the other to record consumption. I sort of like that idea.

 

[asder]

I have some bi-directional meters but for some applications I am thinking two separate meters might be better. Note on this meter's ad, they show using one to record charging and the other to record consumption. I sort of like that idea.

View attachment 17110

Is that a shunt they are collecting the information from? That is a good idea as well.

 

[DThames]

Yes. A shunt allows (for example) 99% of the power to bypass the meter and the meter would then read (in this example) 100 times what it was actually measuring (old analog meters). This meter sees a tiny voltage increase per amp in the shunt, then does the math.

(edited to add the analog statement)

 

[BiduleOhm]

We use circuit breakers here quite a lot, ac and dc. I hardly people see or discuss those in topics, so I wonder at times, what did I get installed? Solar power comes in to the inverter, there is a dc circuit breaker. Battery (lead acid for now, dead) have a dc circuit breaker to the inverter. The main power line coming from the house's circuit board has an ac circuit breaker. The connection of the main power line coming from outside the house (the power company), through the main circuit board (has a whole bunch of circuit breakers) going up to the inverter gets an ac circuit breaker.

You can use breakers of course, but they often are more expensive than fuses so that's why so many people use fuses instead.

Would you be able to link to a picture or a product, so I can better understand what you mean aluminum cube being the same thickness as the isolation between TEC and heatsink?

Something like this for example: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Tailles-Div...illets-Carre-Ingenierie-Fraisage/164282797093 (you need to cut those tho, ideally you would find something already of the right dimensions) and sorry I'm french so I can't really search for your country easily.

Any aluminium billet of 40x40 mm or a bit more (like 2" would be about 50 mm for example), and the thickness you want will work. Just make sure the faces in contact with the peltiers and heatsink are flat and smooth (and use thermal paste/glue), use some sand paper on a flat surface otherwise

 

[asder]

You can use breakers of course, but they often are more expensive than fuses so that's why so many people use fuses instead.

I did not know that, thank you. I always thought that the system would be in one place for a long time, a circuit break just makes more sense, there would possibly be some increase in cost, but would save other headaches.

Something like this for example: https://www.ebay.fr/itm/Tailles-Div...illets-Carre-Ingenierie-Fraisage/164282797093 (you need to cut those tho, ideally you would find something already of the right dimensions) and sorry I'm french so I can't really search for your country easily.

Any aluminium billet of 40x40 mm or a bit more (like 2" would be about 50 mm for example), and the thickness you want will work. Just make sure the faces in contact with the peltiers and heatsink are flat and smooth (and use thermal paste/glue), use some sand paper on a flat surface otherwise

Ah, yes. Just a simple plain aluminum block. Don't worry about not getting the proper site, that is why pictures help. Each country has their own popular place for everything.

If I understand the construction correctly. There will be an aluminum sheet in the inside of the box (sides are sealed by silicone to stop airflow). Behind this aluminum sheet is the peltier device. Cold side touching the aluminum sheet. Sanded down on the side between peltier and heatsink (the hot side) to provide a smooth and even surface. Apply thermal paste (the one used for cpu) to create a better heat transfer. On the heat sink have a fan that blows the air out away from the heat sink? I am learning FreeCad, hopefully in a week or three, I'll be able to draw these diagrams and post pictures here.

 

[BiduleOhm]

The assembly would be:

                 peltier
                    |
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | # <- Al plate
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@iso@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~|         v #
~~~~~~~~~~| ####### " #
~~~~~~~~~~| ##Al### " #
~heatsink~| ####### " #
~~~~~~~~~~| #block# " #
~~~~~~~~~~| ####### " #
~~~~~~~~~~|           #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@iso@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #

You need to put thermal paste/glue on the 3 interfaces (heatsink/Al block, Al block/peltier and peltier/Al plate). If you use paste then you need to use long bolts to squeeze the stack, if you use thermal glue then you don't need anything else (NB: peltiers modules have ceramic faces and I'm not sure thermal glue stick well to them, you might want to do a test before the final assembly).

 

[asder]

The assembly would be:

                 peltier
                    |
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | # <- Al plate
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@iso@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@ | #
~~~~~~~~~~|         v #
~~~~~~~~~~| ####### " #
~~~~~~~~~~| ##Al### " #
~heatsink~| ####### " #
~~~~~~~~~~| #block# " #
~~~~~~~~~~| ####### " #
~~~~~~~~~~|           #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@iso@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #
~~~~~~~~~~| @@@@@@@   #

You need to put thermal paste/glue on the 3 interfaces (heatsink/Al block, Al block/peltier and peltier/Al plate). If you use paste then you need to use long bolts to squeeze the stack, if you use thermal glue then you don't need anything else (NB: peltiers modules have ceramic faces and I'm not sure thermal glue stick well to them, you might want to do a test before the final assembly).

Thank you so much. That diagram makes things very easy to see. What does iso stand for?

 

[BiduleOhm]

Isolation

 

[asder]

Just to give you guys an idea of what the rain looks like here sometimes. Monsoon season





it was really hard to see very far. Driving would be very very hard. About 10~15 minutes after the rain, the temperature started climbing back up along with the humidity. Plus you can't trust weather folks. There was no rain today on any international or local weather site. We just saw the rain clouds, and 20 minutes later we had the above for about 50 minutes. It slowed down to normal rain for another 2 hours afterwards.

 

[nosys70]

so you got plenty of water...
making ice is a nice way to store thermal energy.
cooling water (or heating) near the phase change requires a lot of energy.
so you you got a proper isolated container, stroring energy in water is easy (you just heat or cool it).
the only drawback is you can only get the energy back as calories.

 

[ArthurEld]

I am wondering about heat too. I live in Florida and my garage is like an oven.
I was thinking that if I set the batteries right on the cement slab that it should pull some heat away. My garage is cinder block.
The idea of putting them in the ground is pretty good.
It seems like you could put them in a refrigerator and it wouldn't cost too much if you used a small one and kept the temp up.

 

[Itohmamma]

Is that a shunt they are collecting the information from? That is a good idea as well.

Yes shunt