High Voltage (HV) battery from 4x 16s(48V) in series?

[jfk]

Hi,
I have SofarSolar HYD5K 20KTL-3PH inverter, that operates on 180V-800V range HV (high voltage) battery.

Your best choice for AC Storage, Hybrid Inverters, Batteries and String Inverters - Shenzhen SOFARSOLAR Co., Ltd.

Sofarsolar is a leading solar&hybird inverter manufacturer in China. It ranges from 1kW to 255kW, which can fully meet the requirements of residential, commercial, utility scale projects and AC storage,hybrid solutions.

www.sofarsolar.com

I consider to build HV power wall based on 4 x 48V16s batteries banks.
I haven't started yet and I am collecting all advises. What is possible, what is not? What kind of 4x BMS will be the best one for such project? Any a master BMS? How to protect this power wall (shunts, breakers, etc)

I know it is dangerous, I know, that there is lack of parts to build it, but due to fact, that efficiency is better on HV, more often it is being implemented by producers in inverters.

Sooner or later, we all have to face HV


Thank You all for advices
JT

 

[shavermcspud]

I don't think there is any HV compatible BMS on the market yet, from the exposure I have had to these, they use 50ah pouch cells and not traditional LFP prismatic cells, it would make them almost un-liftable in weight. I installed a Solax Triple 180v HV battery not so long ago and it looked super complicated inside.

 

[van-traveler86]

you can use dc to dc converter from 48v to 400v

 

[PeSCaLo]

Hi,
I have SofarSolar HYD5K 20KTL-3PH inverter, that operates on 180V-800V range HV (high voltage) battery.

Your best choice for AC Storage, Hybrid Inverters, Batteries and String Inverters - Shenzhen SOFARSOLAR Co., Ltd.

Sofarsolar is a leading solar&hybird inverter manufacturer in China. It ranges from 1kW to 255kW, which can fully meet the requirements of residential, commercial, utility scale projects and AC storage,hybrid solutions.

www.sofarsolar.com

I consider to build HV power wall based on 4 x 48V16s batteries banks.
I haven't started yet and I am collecting all advises. What is possible, what is not? What kind of 4x BMS will be the best one for such project? Any a master BMS? How to protect this power wall (shunts, breakers, etc)

I know it is dangerous, I know, that there is lack of parts to build it, but due to fact, that efficiency is better on HV, more often it is being implemented by producers in inverters.

Sooner or later, we all have to face HV


Thank You all for advices
JT

30 lfp in series is 96v
easy to wire.

125 Amp 250v mcb
63amp fuse before the load

 

[marbella]

as in my understanding a HV Battery will be more likely to brake as it has a lot of relatively small cells in series and the BMS system needs to be specially adopted to that high voltage. If your power demand is not higher than 6000kVA I see no use to go away from the 48V Standard where you can have several redundant blocks in parallel with 2 to 6kWh each.
But it is cheaper to switch high voltage than high current. (Growat )

 

[Alber C]

you can't do this. you know it's dangous and you should know why. because your 3 phase inverter will need a communication with battery system. while you use the 16S battery pack in series will not possible to do so. HV battery system works by BMS and BMU. there is a master BMS beyond the BMS of each 16S packs. And this master BMS will manage all battery modular and communicate with inverter. So, what you need to do is just simply order a HV battery system from factory. That's the easy way for you to do. And these kind of BMS/BMU is much more complicated then the" DIY" low voltage battery system. this battery could be one of the option for you. https://www.coremax-tech.com/product/50kw-solar-battery-storage-50kwh-commercial-backup-system/

 

[marbella]

I have chatted with some guys that take the complete 36V Lithium packs with BMS from 20 brand new Bird Scooters they bought cheap from some doggy gipsy here in Malaga. Similar to this https://www.ebay.com/itm/224949859447 but at 25€ per piece.

36V Battery 20Ah 18650 lithium battery pack 10S3P 20000mah 500W​

42V Electric Scooter M365 ebike Power Battery with BMS​

so you simply put 20 BIRD Modules in a 5s4p Matrix and you have your 200V 70AH = 14kWh Solar battery for 500€ !
I recommend connecting all the links in the matrix and eventually find an additional BMS that will balance the 5 groups in Series

 

[1.21 Gigawatts]

you can use dc to dc converter from 48v to 400v

do you happen to know of any? Or where to buy them?

 

[1.21 Gigawatts]

I have chatted with some guys that take the complete 36V Lithium packs with BMS from 20 brand new Bird Scooters they bought cheap from some doggy gipsy here in Malaga. Similar to this https://www.ebay.com/itm/224949859447 but at 25€ per piece.

36V Battery 20Ah 18650 lithium battery pack 10S3P 20000mah 500W​

42V Electric Scooter M365 ebike Power Battery with BMS​

so you simply put 20 BIRD Modules in a 5s4p Matrix and you have your 200V 70AH = 14kWh Solar battery for 500€ !
I recommend connecting all the links in the matrix and eventually find an additional BMS that will balance the 5 groups in Series

Most those cheap scooter batteries are FAKE AH ratings. Really hard to trust stuff from china.

 

[marbella]

Most those cheap scooter batteries are FAKE AH ratings. Really hard to trust stuff from china.

in Berlin fallen jetzt ja wegen der Parkdiskriminierung große Mengen fast neue E-scooter an.
Wer hat Infos zum Bau einer HV Powerwall unter Wiederverwendung des 36V BMS?

 

[kuranaga]

I don't think there is any HV compatible BMS on the market yet, from the exposure I have had to these, they use 50ah pouch cells and not traditional LFP prismatic cells, it would make them almost un-liftable in weight. I installed a Solax Triple 180v HV battery not so long ago and it looked super complicated inside.

some BMS can be daisy chained to get as many cells as you want

 

[marbella]

there is large quantities of scooter batteries with BMS cheaply available, 36V 5Ah at 10€ so anybody would like to work it out make a
e.g. 360V 25Ah 9kWh batterie at a cost of around 400€ affordable for everybody who has a friend who is willing to go collect for 40 scooters in the park to make 400€? We can donate the motors for windmill projects too and the aluminium you can sell to scrapyard

 

[Supervstech]

there is large quantities of scooter batteries with BMS cheaply available, 36V 5Ah at 10€ so anybody would like to work it out make a
e.g. 360V 25Ah 9kWh batterie at a cost of around 400€ affordable for everybody who has a friend who is willing to go collect for 40 scooters in the park to make 400€? We can donate the motors for windmill projects too and the aluminium you can sell to scrapyard

Are you seriously posting on a forum to suggest people STEAL scooters to build batteries?

 

[marbella]

Are you seriously posting on a forum to suggest people STEAL scooters to build batteries?

no, of course not!
This is completely legal. If somebody throws a scooter in a park it is considered waste or litter and you are entitled to clean up and recycle the dangerous object. If you are not sure about the situation in your area I recommend that you ask for information at your local authority which I did and was encouraged to clean up the litter.

 

[JoeHam]

some BMS can be daisy chained to get as many cells as you want

If you are aware of one that can get up to the 200 - 800 V range the OP is looking for please post a link as I’ve never seen one available to the DIY community.

 

[Supervstech]

no, of course not!
This is completely legal. If somebody throws a scooter in a park it is considered waste or litter and you are entitled to clean up and recycle the dangerous object. If you are not sure about the situation in your area I recommend that you ask for information at your local authority which I did and was encouraged to clean up the litter.

Interesting.
I've never heard of this.
Here in NC there are rental scooters. I have never seen any abandoned scooters other than rental models here.

 

[curiouscarbon]

Interesting.
I've never heard of this.
Here in NC there are rental scooters. I have never seen any abandoned scooters other than rental models here.

i have seen electric scooters abandoned on the side of freeway at least twice in the last year. one was clearly broken (frame)

some companies place them around the city, so it can feel a bit ambiguous to me as to whether it is abandoned or "ready for operation"

either way, if the BMS supported higher than 100VDC, i would be surprised. so anyone who ethically sources said batteries, please be careful about maintaining proper safety disconnect functionality

 

[1.21 Gigawatts]

If you are aware of one that can get up to the 200 - 800 V range the OP is looking for please post a link as I’ve never seen one available to the DIY community.

I found a video showing someone doing it with a batrium kit. A WatchmonCORE + E3 expansion + 4x Cellmate-k9

 

[marbella]

Most those cheap scooter batteries are FAKE AH ratings. Really hard to trust stuff from china.

I did not recomend to buy cells for scooters I recomend to take semi new scooters that have been dumped by rentors and are legally considered as litter, free to use!

 

[marbella]

i have seen electric scooters abandoned on the side of freeway at least twice in the last year. one was clearly broken (frame)

some companies place them around the city, so it can feel a bit ambiguous to me as to whether it is abandoned or "ready for operation"

either way, if the BMS supported higher than 100VDC, i would be surprised. so anyone who ethically sources said batteries, please be careful about maintaining proper safety disconnect functionality

abandoned rental scooters are legally rubbish if they are not parked in the company space, just take them!