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How will we pay for road maintenance if everyone has an EV and no-one pays gas taxes any more?

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45North

Let it shine!
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In many countries around the world the cost of road infrastructure construction and maintenance is funded by large taxes at the gas pump. (As the oil companies love to point out!)

If more and more people switch to EV's in the future where is this money going to come from?

Many governments are offering financial incentives for the purchase of EV's. Many EV's are charged overnight at favorable electricity rates.

Are we heading for a crunch or am I missing something?
 
If everyone had solar the electric company wouldn't make any money either. But everybody doesn't have solar and everybody doesn't have EVs.
The people who don't have solar or EVs lose. haha
 
We have special Green license plates in Ontario for EV's but they no longer cost less than plates for ICE cars. (They cost the same so there is no additional charge either)
But green plates still sometimes entitle you to preferential parking spots and in some cases free charging.

Subsidies from the Provincial government for the purchase of EV's was discontinued by the new Conservative gov't of Ontario but they are still available in some other Provinces.
 
We couldn't possibly generate enough electricity in the US to power 100% electric vehicles, not even close... Would need massive Fusion, or orbital Solar arrays to supply that much power.
 
What should have happened is a national/international standard for charge interconnects which included a data protocol. The charge controller in the car should only allow charge from metered and authenticated sources. That way, wherever you charge, you are contributing to the local rate for road taxes, whatever that may be and no GPS or other tracking of you and your car need be done. Same as it always has been where you pay road tax at the pump. This has the added benefit of continuing to encourage efficiency and taxes heavier vehicles effectively at a higher rate because they require more energy and also wear the roads faster.
 
Burke said:
We couldn't possibly generate enough electricity in the US to power 100% electric vehicles, not even close... Would need massive Fusion, or orbital Solar arrays to supply that much power.
Click to expand...
OK and the increase would only be 25% to 30% over current consumption.
 
I don't know the exact specifics of it, so don't quote me, but California is currently going through a bill that will charge you by the mile instead of by the gallon. For this exact reason, since more people are driving EVs, they're buying less gas, so they're making less money. So they charge by the mileage you drive per year and will be required to report your cars mileage annually.

Good for gas guzzlers because you will most likely pay the same per mile than the EVs or hybrids. Shitty for the people who commute to work (like I used to commute 55 miles everyday for work)
 
Lt.Dan said:
I don't know the exact specifics of it, so don't quote me, but California is currently going through a bill that will charge you by the mile instead of by the gallon. For this exact reason, since more people are driving EVs, they're buying less gas, so they're making less money. So they charge by the mileage you drive per year and will be required to report your cars mileage annually.
Click to expand...
Hmmm. Now that you mention it, I already have to report my mileage every year when I renew my plates. Do you suppose they're building up a file on my usage in preparation for charging me? Just gathering general statistics on road usage? Or just generally being nosy? If it was based on a self-reported "honor" system, they would still need some way of spot checking or otherwise verifying.

If we paid once a year for mileage driven in the whole year that would be hundreds or thousands of dollars all at once! Imagine the outcry. It would be like having a new Income Tax!
 
so you are concerned about the "government" not being able to figure out how to get more of your money???

have no fear at all, they WILL figure it out. Once the government got together and gave itself the power to tax at will, the government has never had any shortage of innovative ideas about how and when they can tax you; and of course they have a LOT of guns to make sure you pay... ;-)

if somebody demands you need to "pay" them for something or they will take it away, you do not own that thing, you are renting it from the real owner.
when the largest employer of your country is the government, your country is hopelessly broken, sigh...
 
Over here in The Netherlands we don't pay for road infrastructure construction and maintenance via the gas pump. We pay road tax.
The amounth of road tax you pay depents on the weight of the car you drive, and the fuel it's using.
The more weight your car has, the more you pay. And when you're car drives on more poluting diesel, you need to pay extra also.
For company cars, trucks, and agricultural vehicles there are special reduced road taxes, but only when they meet the requirements.
For EV's you pay also less road tax, but I think when more than 50% of the vehicles are EV's, the road taxes will rise to compensate.
 
There are many proposals in play and some are utterly ludicrous to the point of absurdity !
A Global View on how various Nations/Jurisdictions are dealing with such would be a Great Idea that will NEVER EVER HAPPEN thanks to the closed minded who believe that only their own solutions can be applied. A lightbulb is a Lightbulb but for some it has to be made in "XXXX" or it doesn't count. OR they need 5 years and gobs of wasted cash to verify it does work the same.

As Theo above pointed out the Netherlands has a very "Equitable" system based on GVW & Fuel type.
Norway has a similar mechanism BUT they have other things at work for them too.

It should also be pointed out that across Europe, Asia ad even in North America, MOST EV Owners charge at home by simply plugging their car into a 120V/15A plug (North America) in the garage as there is no need for Fast Charging when you're asleep.

  • Public EV Chargers can add "X cents" per kWh dispensed which are then collected by Charging Company and given to State/Prov or whatever. {no different than what they do at gas pumps today}
  • Public Chargers using Renewable Energy Sources (Wind/Solar) could also do the same as above. Overall the cost may be lower due to power source not being Grid Power.
  • Personal/Home Chargers are connected to the residential meter. These are 90% of the time "low rate" chargers that run overnight during Low Time of Use periods. Can such be taxed separately ? Possibly but a Nightmare indeed to do. IF it was a completely separate Charger with its own Meter then possibly... Potential there for "Leased" Charging systems ?
  • Personal/Home Charging IF from Solar/Wind (connected to the residence) then Too Bad, So Sad no tax on self-generation.
Multi-Residential units like Apartments, Townhouses/garden homes would require either metered charging spots or having "Parking Bollards" with power outlets metered to the residential unit. BTW: This is a common thing to find in Northern Regions where pluging in Block Heaters in winter is required. This is NOT a new thing or new way to do something but it's unlikely such was ever planned into any "Warm Climate" regions such as California for example. Adding such Facility into New Builds should be an automatic thing from now on.

Lastly, something a few likely will NOT Like at all...
Realize that North America is the THIRD WORLD of EV's and way behind everyone else... This is now changing and within 5 years "Hopefully" it will have parity with others as far as access to and availablity of EV's. The resistance to shift has created this and is UNIQUE to North America in how this unfolded. The IRONIC Example of this... BYD (A Warren Buffet invested Company) is flogging more EV's cars, vans and more to Africa than the US which has none of the models. Kenya is actually an EV Boom Nation ! and that is spreading FAST.

Disclosure: I am a Recovered Hot Rodder who restored & built many a Hot Rod and Street Car in my days. From 350HP Small Blocks to 10,000 RPM Full Roller Big Blocks with Nitrous that guzzled gas like you can't imagine. After having had a spin in an AWD Tesla all I can say is Holy Crap ! None of my Gassers ever hooked up & took off like that, regardless of 4 link suspension and all the whistles to do it. We dumped ALL our Traditional Auto Stocks and are now heavily vested into Tesla and a few others - best move ever.
 
45North said:
...the cost of road infrastructure ... is funded by large taxes at the gas pump... Are we heading for a crunch or am I missing something?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry about the government being able to find new ways to raise money, they have lots of experience at it.
It's like the cigarette tax, as fewer people smoke the taxes have to move to some other item(s).

The road tax was never particularly well balanced anyway. For example, normal passenger cars don't do anywhere near as much wear as 18 wheelers. Of course, if only 18 wheelers had to bear the burden, no one could afford shipping.

There's talk every year about an EV road tax here, still hasn't happened as they're trying to promote EVs.
 
There's a lot of possibilities.
Honor systems don't work so the government will likely be tracking your usage via V2X
datamakespossible.westerndigital.com

Home Page - Western Digital Corporate Blog

Home Page - Western Digital Corporate Blog
datamakespossible.westerndigital.com datamakespossible.westerndigital.com
So when you come to renew your registration they will calculate how much you owe based on the number of miles traveled.
Sounds fair but the V2X will also know when and where you broke the speed limits, ran a red light etc.
And if you think it's a conspiracy theory....
www.cnet.com

EU to require speed limiters, driver monitors in new cars from 2022

Speed limiters are promised to reduce road deaths by 20 percent.
www.cnet.com www.cnet.com
And we are already seeing some toe dipping in the US.
www.truckinginfo.com

Senate Bill Would Require Truck Speed Limiters Set at 65 MPH on All New Trucks

A bipartisan bill would require all new Class 7 and Class 8 trucks to be equipped with speed-limiting devices that must be set to a maximum speed of 65 mph and be used whenever in operation.
www.truckinginfo.com www.truckinginfo.com
 
IF this was stopped & redirected to where it should be, it would be a lot simpler, it's just redirecting the money that is already being tossed out.
How much does the US give in oil subsidies?
A conservative estimate from Oil Change International puts the U.S. total at around $20.5 billion annually, including $14.7 billion in federal subsidies and $5.8 billion in state-level incentives.Nov. 25, 2020
Click to expand...

$20+ Billion a Year from USA alone = a Lot of Road & Infrastructure work !
WHY subsidize companies turning over record profits ? Ahhh to be a Lobbyist raking in the percentages for monies lobbied.

BACCO TAXES ! Ohh what a mess THAT is.... When everyone & their dog smoked in 1970 and the Governments were collect 25%+ of every single pack sold, they were raking it in by the truckload !. Picture that 200 Million packs of smokes a day were sold, $1 per pack goes to Government, that's 200 Million Dollars a day income - That is 73 Billion a Year ! Now current taxes on a pack are much higher and less packs are being sold and the Government has NEVER effectively replaced that revenue stream. The end result was reduced Public Spending which those Tobacco Taxes paid for and now you see the result of it with decaying infrastructure & eternally reducing services... it's called Consequences....
 
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