Hybrid question

[bcolex]

I need help with hybrid system please. We have utility power but it goes off from time to time. I'd like to supplement and/or replace it. Our daily average usage is only 15-18 kwh. I can't determine where to input the power and whether or not to do roof mount or ground mount. Our utility power comes into a pedestal with smart meter and main breaker panel about 80 feet in front of the house. In that panel is a 200 amp main breaker, a 50 amp 2 pole that feeds the house panel, a 30 amp 2 pole that feeds the well (in another direction from the house) and a couple of 20 and 30 amp single phase RV outlets that we never use. In the garage we have the distribution panel that also has a 200 amp main breaker and I have or can easily make space to add a couple of 2 pole breakers for a split phase solar system.
Questions I need help with-
Can the 2 pole breaker that supplies power to the inverter and the 2 pole breaker that delivers power from the inverter be in the same panel or do I need to add a subpanel somewhere?
Do I need to do a ground mount array and have a hybrid inverter/batteries connected at the pedestal main to make sure that I can have power for the well from there or can I roof mount panels and put the inverter and batteries in the garage? Would it "backfeed" to the main panel at the pedestal to supply power for the well? If I do that then I'll have to build an "outhouse" solar shed nearby to protect it and insulate it. We live at almost 8000 elevation and do have some cold winters and lots of snow....
My garage roof faces SSW and is metal so it seems to be a perfect orientation for panels and we have over 300 days of sun/year
Would a hybrid inverter automatically turn off utility power of solar or battery power was available regardless of which panel it connected to? I am not interested in selling power to the grid at all, ever, just want to be self sufficient.
Lastly, in sizing the inverter, the well pump(s) would be an inductive load but both pumps (submersible at 550' deep and booster pump for pressure tank) both run off that 30a/2pole service to the whole water system so I am thinking a 6KW high frequency inverter could handle it but maybe an 8KW would be better. I am looking at a system from Sungold Power that has an 8KW hybrid inverter (LF) about 10KWH of batteries and 8 415 watt panels for a great price but feel like I have seen more negative reviews than positive for them. When they advertise on Facebook all of their comments (positive and negative) are never shown and other reviews have not been great. I have also looked at an 8KW Megarevo and it has very nice features and seems like a SolArk in most aspects at a fraction of the cost.

I've been mulling this over for too long and need to do something now and really appreciate that opportunity to get opinions form more knowledgable people about this dilema. Thank you in advance.
Bob

 

[FilterGuy]

I need help with hybrid system please. We have utility power but it goes off from time to time. I'd like to supplement and/or replace it. Our daily average usage is only 15-18 kwh. I can't determine where to input the power and whether or not to do roof mount or ground mount. Our utility power comes into a pedestal with smart meter and main breaker panel about 80 feet in front of the house. In that panel is a 200 amp main breaker, a 50 amp 2 pole that feeds the house panel, a 30 amp 2 pole that feeds the well (in another direction from the house) and a couple of 20 and 30 amp single phase RV outlets that we never use. In the garage we have the distribution panel that also has a 200 amp main breaker and I have or can easily make space to add a couple of 2 pole breakers for a split phase solar system.
Questions I need help with-
Can the 2 pole breaker that supplies power to the inverter and the 2 pole breaker that delivers power from the inverter be in the same panel or do I need to add a subpanel somewhere?
Do I need to do a ground mount array and have a hybrid inverter/batteries connected at the pedestal main to make sure that I can have power for the well from there or can I roof mount panels and put the inverter and batteries in the garage? Would it "backfeed" to the main panel at the pedestal to supply power for the well? If I do that then I'll have to build an "outhouse" solar shed nearby to protect it and insulate it. We live at almost 8000 elevation and do have some cold winters and lots of snow....
My garage roof faces SSW and is metal so it seems to be a perfect orientation for panels and we have over 300 days of sun/year
Would a hybrid inverter automatically turn off utility power of solar or battery power was available regardless of which panel it connected to? I am not interested in selling power to the grid at all, ever, just want to be self sufficient.
Lastly, in sizing the inverter, the well pump(s) would be an inductive load but both pumps (submersible at 550' deep and booster pump for pressure tank) both run off that 30a/2pole service to the whole water system so I am thinking a 6KW high frequency inverter could handle it but maybe an 8KW would be better. I am looking at a system from Sungold Power that has an 8KW hybrid inverter (LF) about 10KWH of batteries and 8 415 watt panels for a great price but feel like I have seen more negative reviews than positive for them. When they advertise on Facebook all of their comments (positive and negative) are never shown and other reviews have not been great. I have also looked at an 8KW Megarevo and it has very nice features and seems like a SolArk in most aspects at a fraction of the cost.

I've been mulling this over for too long and need to do something now and really appreciate that opportunity to get opinions form more knowledgable people about this dilema. Thank you in advance.
Bob

I assume you want to run the water pump when the grid goes down, and that limits your possibilities.

First lets look at a typical hybrid inverter and it's loads


When the grid is up, the hybrid can provide power to Loads A, B, & C. However, when the grid goes down, the Hybrid will open the Grid Isolation relay and only Load C will get power. This means that both the house and the pump need to be in the 'Load C' position.

There are a few ways to do this.

1) Put the system out near the pedestal so you have easy access to both the Pump and House circuits.
2) Re-rout the pump power to the house and put the inverter at the house.

There is another option: Use the Schneider XP Pro system with its 'BCS' that has the separate disconnect relay box.

With this system, you could put the BCS at the pedistal and the inverter at the house.



However, you will have to run control wires from the inverter to the BCS.

The XW-Pro has been around for quite a while and some folks swear by it, but other folks are saying they have had a lot of firmware issues with it. (Search the forum).

 

[bcolex]

Thanks! Kinda what I thought. I'll just build a solar shed near the pedestal and paint a quarter moon on the door so it will look like an outhouse near the RV hookup! Ground mount panels too, unfortunately...

 

[FilterGuy]

Thanks! Kinda what I thought. I'll just build a solar shed near the pedestal and paint a quarter moon on the door so it will look like an outhouse near the RV hookup! Ground mount panels too, unfortunately...

Just don't have a party where a drunk tries to use the 'outhouse'?

 

[bcolex]

That BCS is $3000ish and your comments leads me to believe performance is iffy. I'll do something else, want simple system as possible, fewer electronics is better. Thanks again

 

[bcolex]

What about connection? I understand but may be wrong that a hybrid inverter allows you to get and send power to your main panel without an interlock for main utility power. As in a 2pole breaker to supply utility power to inverter and a second 2pole breaker to backfeed power from inverter back to same panel. You know about that?

 

[FilterGuy]

What about connection? I understand but may be wrong that a hybrid inverter allows you to get and send power to your main panel without an interlock for main utility power. As in a 2pole breaker to supply utility power to inverter and a second 2pole breaker to backfeed power from inverter back to same panel. You know about that?

Yes that is true.... but when the grid goes down the inverter disconnects from it's grid ports.... so it will no longer power the pump. (I assume you want the pump to run during a power outage)

 

[bcolex]

Yes that is true.... but when the grid goes down the inverter disconnects from it's grid ports.... so it will no longer power the pump. (I assume you want the pump to run during a power outage)

Yes, whole idea is to have water during outage. Again, I thought a "hybrid" inverter which can be on or off grid would take care of it. See why I'm confused?

 

[FilterGuy]

Yes, whole idea is to have water during outage. Again, I thought a "hybrid" inverter which can be on or off grid would take care of it. See why I'm confused?

Don't feel alone. There is a lot of confusion out there about what a hybrid can and can't do. The thing to keep in mind is that for safety reasons, when the grid goes down the inverter must totally disconnect from the grid. Once disconnected, the inverter can only power 'down stream' loads

 

[bcolex]

That's what I understand and want to happen. No backfeed to grid, ever. Can I have the 2 breakers in that main panel and will it automatically disconnect from grid when I am either producing power or using the battery? As in, set usage to SBU,?

 

[Mattb4]

I need help with hybrid system please. We have utility power but it goes off from time to time. I'd like to supplement and/or replace it. Our daily average usage is only 15-18 kwh. I can't determine where to input the power and whether or not to do roof mount or ground mount. Our utility power comes into a pedestal with smart meter and main breaker panel about 80 feet in front of the house. In that panel is a 200 amp main breaker, a 50 amp 2 pole that feeds the house panel, a 30 amp 2 pole that feeds the well (in another direction from the house) and a couple of 20 and 30 amp single phase RV outlets that we never use. ...
Bob

You might not need a hybrid setup if as you say you do not intend to supply power to the grid. Having a main disconnect just after your meter simplifies things. Between it and all your other supplies you can simply put in your AIO if it has capacity to handle switching for the full amperage. SolARKs and I believe the EG4 18K can do this. If you want something (smaller PV AIO setup or gas generator) less using a transfer switch allows you to switch it in or out depending on loss of grid.

Edit: I am including a simple flow diagram that might help conceptualize things.

 

[bcolex]

You might not need a hybrid setup if as you say you do not intend to supply power to the grid. Having a main disconnect just after your meter simplifies things. Between it and all your other supplies you can simply put in your AIO if it has capacity to handle switching for the full amperage. SolARKs and I believe the EG4 18K can do this. If you want something (smaller PV AIO setup or gas generator) less using a transfer switch allows you to switch it in or out depending on loss of grid.

Thanks, I don't think I need anything larger than 8kw inverter, maybe a 6 would handle everything. Thinking low frequency to handle inrush from well pump or electric dryer (maybe) but no huge loads except those two.

 

[bcolex]

I don't want to have to go out there to do a transfer switch, so would an ATS be required?

 

[Mattb4]

I don't want to have to go out there to do a transfer switch, so would an ATS be required?

Anything not grid tied (grid parallel) is going to have to have some means of switching power source. Many AIO's incorporate an ATS but it is sized for their estimated AC output in most cases. If you go the route of a whole home transfer switch it must be sized for full power and it can be either ATS or MTS. It depends on your personal needs and pocketbook.