I just bought 6 EG4 batteries and have a magnum inverter charger.

[Sparky7]

I just bought 6 EG4 batteries and have a magnum inverter charger. MAGNUM ENERGY, MS4448PAE, 4400 WATT, 48V, PARALLEL INVERTER/60 AMP PFC CHARGER/120V/240V INPUT/OUTPUT​

Is this a big issue? I'm told I could set up the parameters for Lithium batteries but it doesn't have a bms to communicate. Just wondering if this is significant (worth buying a different inverter to prolong/protect my eg4 batteries)?

 

[Samsonite801]

You'd have to check and make sure the Magnum inverter has either the LFP charge profile or a custom user adjustable profile, to set it right.

The older Magnums didn't have LFP profile, but I think all the newer ones do. If using the right remote, can get the custom user profile where you can set what you want.

If you go download the manual for your MS4448PAE and look for the graph in there showing the charge profiles, you can see them. You don't need BMS comms to use the LFP profile, it is just based on voltages...

On the custom user profile, you can use Will's sticky post for settings:

Recommended Charge Profile for DIY LiFePO4 Batteries *Sticky Post*

12V 4S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS: Absorption: 14.5V Float: 13.6V Inverter Cut-off: 10.7V-12V (depending on size of load and voltage drop etc) 24V 8S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS Absorption: 29V Float: 27.2V Inverter Cut-off: 21.4V-24V 48V 16S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS Absorption: 58V Float: 54.4V...

diysolarforum.com

 

[Sparky7]

You'd have to check and make sure the Magnum inverter has either the LFP charge profile or a custom user adjustable profile, to set it right.

The older Magnums didn't have LFP profile, but I think all the newer ones do. If using the right remote, can get the custom user profile where you can set what you want.

If you go download the manual for your MS4448PAE and look for the graph in there showing the charge profiles, you can see them. You don't need BMS comms to use the LFP profile, it is just based on voltages...

On the custom user profile, you can use Will's sticky post for settings:

Recommended Charge Profile for DIY LiFePO4 Batteries *Sticky Post*

12V 4S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS: Absorption: 14.5V Float: 13.6V Inverter Cut-off: 10.7V-12V (depending on size of load and voltage drop etc) 24V 8S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS Absorption: 29V Float: 27.2V Inverter Cut-off: 21.4V-24V 48V 16S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS Absorption: 58V Float: 54.4V...

diysolarforum.com

Thank you!

 

[DennisBrady]

I run nearly the same system all be it mine is a MS 4024. It's 10 years old and I controlled it with a ME-AR remote which I changed it out to a new ME-ARC remote and Magnum's BMK which allowed me to either set to custom parameters for my EG 4-LL or use the pre-set LFP setting in the remote. After a few weeks of testing both remote settings, I settled on the LFP. This was based on suggestions from Magnum/Senesta tech guru Michael Campbell. (BTW, the most helpful tech in this whole change over to EG 4-LL's) Unreal hold times trying to call their tech line but finally sent an email and Michael replied promptly and followed up with phone calls. The down side with this system is the inverter does NOT communicate with the BMS in the batteries but if you are a Windows user I'm not (I had to but a cheap Windows laptop) and downloaded the BMS software from SS you can get all the info you'll need by launching the software and taking a peak at it.

 

[Sparky7]

I run nearly the same system all be it mine is a MS 4024. It's 10 years old and I controlled it with a ME-AR remote which I changed it out to a new ME-ARC remote and Magnum's BMK which allowed me to either set to custom parameters for my EG 4-LL or use the pre-set LFP setting in the remote. After a few weeks of testing both remote settings, I settled on the LFP. This was based on suggestions from Magnum/Senesta tech guru Michael Campbell. (BTW, the most helpful tech in this whole change over to EG 4-LL's) Unreal hold times trying to call their tech line but finally sent an email and Michael replied promptly and followed up with phone calls. The down side with this system is the inverter does NOT communicate with the BMS in the batteries but if you are a Windows user I'm not (I had to but a cheap Windows laptop) and downloaded the BMS software from SS you can get all the info you'll need by launching the software and taking a peak at it.

My inverter is only 2 yrs. old. It does have a custom setting

 

[Samsonite801]

My inverter is only 2 yrs. old. It does have a custom setting

It has to do with the remote you have. You need to have the ME-ARC (advanced) version of the remote control to get the custom user profile settings to be available.

I have the non-advanced version (the ME-RC 50) remote, so I just set mine to AGM2 profile for now (on my MS2812 inverter), to charge fine with my LFP 12v bank.

Reference:

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagDocs/64-0030-Rev-C-ME-ARC_CD_Web.pdf

Magnum sells a newer remote by p/n: ME-ARC50-L which is supposed to support a preset LFP battery profile, but rumor said it only works with the newer rev model inverters. So I opened a support ticket with Magnum and asked if I could use a ME-ARC50-L with my inverter, and he checked, he had to get my serial number of my MS2812 from me, later he indicated that I would have to also replace my main board too (since it was old rev board), to make that newer remote work (at my cost of course).

But I could still use an ME-ARC advanced remote if I wanted to be able to set custom user profile (which is the same as setting an LFP preset profile), so it doesn't really matter to me that there is a profile there called Lithium, since Custom User Profile can be set to same values anyways.

In my case, I just use the AGM2 profile on my ME-RC 50 remote, works just fine, since the absorption @14.5v and float @13.5v (with equalization effectively disabled, set same as absorption voltage) so I decided it's fine for LFP use.

In the case of 24v and 48v Magnum, looks like the AGM2 profile still looks fine for that. Based on Will Prowse's Sticky Thread I posted above (float is just a tad bit lower, but not a problem, might make it charge a bit slower on the last few percent (once it switches to float), but get more cycles and lifespan out of the bank):


12V 4S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS:

• Absorption: 14.5V
• Float: 13.6V
• Inverter Cut-off: 10.7V-12V (depending on size of load and voltage drop etc)

24V 8S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS

• Absorption: 29V
• Float: 27.2V
• Inverter Cut-off: 21.4V-24V

48V 16S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS

• Absorption: 58V
• Float: 54.4V
• Inverter Cut-off: 42.8V-48V

 

[Samsonite801]

Ref:

 

[Sparky7]

I run nearly the same system all be it mine is a MS 4024. It's 10 years old and I controlled it with a ME-AR remote which I changed it out to a new ME-ARC remote and Magnum's BMK which allowed me to either set to custom parameters for my EG 4-LL or use the pre-set LFP setting in the remote. After a few weeks of testing both remote settings, I settled on the LFP. This was based on suggestions from Magnum/Senesta tech guru Michael Campbell. (BTW, the most helpful tech in this whole change over to EG 4-LL's) Unreal hold times trying to call their tech line but finally sent an email and Michael replied promptly and followed up with phone calls. The down side with this system is the inverter does NOT communicate with the BMS in the batteries but if you are a Windows user I'm not (I had to but a cheap Windows laptop) and downloaded the BMS software from SS you can get all the info you'll need by launching the software and taking a peak at it.

It has to do with the remote you have. You need to have the ME-ARC (advanced) version of the remote control to get the custom user profile settings to be available.

I have the non-advanced version (the ME-RC 50) remote, so I just set mine to AGM2 profile for now (on my MS2812 inverter), to charge fine with my LFP 12v bank.

Reference:

https://www.magnum-dimensions.com/sites/default/files/MagDocs/64-0030-Rev-C-ME-ARC_CD_Web.pdf

View attachment 134748

Magnum sells a newer remote by p/n: ME-ARC50-L which is supposed to support a preset LFP battery profile, but rumor said it only works with the newer rev model inverters. So I opened a support ticket with Magnum and asked if I could use a ME-ARC50-L with my inverter, and he checked, he had to get my serial number of my MS2812 from me, later he indicated that I would have to also replace my main board too (since it was old rev board), to make that newer remote work (at my cost of course).

But I could still use an ME-ARC advanced remote if I wanted to be able to set custom user profile (which is the same as setting an LFP preset profile), so it doesn't really matter to me that there is a profile there called Lithium, since Custom User Profile can be set to same values anyways.

In my case, I just use the AGM2 profile on my ME-RC 50 remote, works just fine, since the absorption @14.5v and float @13.5v (with equalization effectively disabled, set same as absorption voltage) so I decided it's fine for LFP use.

In the case of 24v and 48v Magnum, looks like the AGM2 profile still looks fine for that. Based on Will Prowse's Sticky Thread I posted above (float is just a tad bit lower, but not a problem, might make it charge a bit slower on the last few percent (once it switches to float), but get more cycles and lifespan out of the bank):


12V 4S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS:

• Absorption: 14.5V
• Float: 13.6V
• Inverter Cut-off: 10.7V-12V (depending on size of load and voltage drop etc)

24V 8S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS

• Absorption: 29V
• Float: 27.2V
• Inverter Cut-off: 21.4V-24V

48V 16S LiFePO4 Battery w/ BMS

• Absorption: 58V
• Float: 54.4V
• Inverter Cut-off: 42.8V-48V

It looks like the new remote would work on my inverter. It's $280 us. If I can do the same settings on custom as the new remote I would rather keep the $280 ; )

If it had a way to communicate with the BMS I would be interested.

 

[MisterSandals]

If it had a way to communicate with the BMS I would be interested.

What information would you want communicated and what functionality would you expect to gain?

 

[Sparky7]

What information would you want communicated and what functionality would you expect to gain?

I am new to LPO and BMS.

I assume the BMS would monitor the batteries closely and give them exactly what they need when they need it as opposed to some general settings that happen no matter what. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[MisterSandals]

I assume the BMS would monitor the batteries closely and give them exactly what they need

Think of the BMS as a safety cutoff switch. There is not a lot of functionality other than cell balancing. This is all handled by the BMS on its own per the settings.
Having charger that can monitor cell level voltages is a good thing but there is not a lot it can do at the cell level. Some chargers and software let you graph your cell histories and levels but there really is not anything more that charger/battery communication can achieve.

The key to getting your system working is getting the charger settings correct for your batteries (and in alignment with your charge aggressiveness/preferences). The Magnum remote should let you set things as suggested by others.

 

[Samsonite801]

I am new to LPO and BMS.

I assume the BMS would monitor the batteries closely and give them exactly what they need when they need it as opposed to some general settings that happen no matter what. Am I understanding this correctly?

You won't get BMS comms going with a Magnum inverter, however, the closest thing you can get is to buy the Magnum Battery Monitor.

Magnum Battery Monitoring Kit, Includes Shunt

Click here for MAGNUM Energy, Inc Magnum Battery Monitoring Kit, Includes Shunt from altE® - Making Renewable Do-able since 1999.

www.altestore.com

Here's a video I saw awhile back where the guy talks all about LFP on Magnums (using an ME-ARC remote with custom user charge profile and a Magnum Battery Monitor Kit)...

 

[Sparky7]

Think of the BMS as a safety cutoff switch. There is not a lot of functionality other than cell balancing. This is all handled by the BMS on its own per the settings.
Having charger that can monitor cell level voltages is a good thing but there is not a lot it can do at the cell level. Some chargers and software let you graph your cell histories and levels but there really is not anything more that charger/battery communication can achieve.

The key to getting your system working is getting the charger settings correct for your batteries (and in alignment with your charge aggressiveness/preferences). The Magnum remote should let you set things as suggested by others.

Sounds good.

If I'm understanding correctly I can manually balance the batteries every year or so. I watched one of Will’s videos. He was balancing the cells with a gadget at 3.57 or something like that.

Yes, my magnum inverters remote allows custom settings.

 

[Samsonite801]

Sounds good.

If I'm understanding correctly I can manually balance the batteries every year or so. I watched one of Will’s videos. He was balancing the cells with a gadget at 3.57 or something like that.

Yes, my magnum inverters remote allows custom settings.

Those EG4 batteries have BMSs in them (with cell-balancing feature enabled by default), therefore on cell-level, the packs will balance themselves automagically. And if all the packs are wired in parallel, all of them will balance to each other natively. Any series packs could go out of balance over time (if you are using the EG4 24v packs, and stringing pairs in series, but if using all EG4 48v packs (in only parallel wiring), then they will all balance to each other on their own.

You can still plug in a data cable to the battery bank (and daisy-chain the backend comms network to all the packs with unique DIP switch addresses), and use a Windows laptop with USB-to-RS485 adapter to the gateway battery, login and monitor, make BMS settings changes and all that, aside from whatever the Magnum is doing.

 

[boondox]

I run some EG4 batteries as well as a DIY pack in parallel on my Magnum inverters. Just make sure you can set the parameters, if you can't buy the correct accessory to do so. No big deal.

 

[Sparky7]

Something like this isn't necessary?

Check this out!
https://a.co/d/5qKu6O5

 

[Sparky7]

Those EG4 batteries have BMSs in them (with cell-balancing feature enabled by default), therefore on cell-level, the packs will balance themselves automagically. And if all the packs are wired in parallel, all of them will balance to each other natively. Any series packs could go out of balance over time (if you are using the EG4 24v packs, and stringing pairs in series, but if using all EG4 48v packs (in only parallel wiring), then they will all balance to each other on their own.

You can still plug in a data cable to the battery bank (and daisy-chain the backend comms network to all the packs with unique DIP switch addresses), and use a Windows laptop with USB-to-RS485 adapter to the gateway battery, login and monitor, make BMS settings changes and all that, aside from whatever the Magnum is doing.

I have 6. 48 V 100 amp hour eg4 LL batteries. They will be wired in parallel.

 

[boondox]

Something like this isn't necessary?

Check this out!
https://a.co/d/5qKu6O5

For a DIY pack you need something like that to top balance the cells. With the EG4 you don't have access to the cells to do a top balance. You just need to be able to set the charge parameters on the Magnum and your charge controller if you have solar. I have an older setup with Magnum inverters and a Midnite charge controller and they all play together just fine.

 

[Sparky7]

For a DIY pack you need something like that to top balance the cells. With the EG4 you don't have access to the cells to do a top balance. You just need to be able to set the charge parameters on the Magnum and your charge controller if you have solar. I have an older setup with Magnum inverters and a Midnite charge controller and they all play together just fine.

Thank you.

I was told on a discussion or video to top each battery off and make sure they are balanced or as close to the same as possible before hooking them up together.

They arrived at around 52.69 to 52.71 v according to the BMS screen on the battery.

Should I charge them to 100% before hooking them to the solar system?

I do have solar and midnight Classic cc too.

 

[boondox]

Thank you.

I was told on a discussion or video to top each battery off and make sure they are balanced or as close to the same as possible before hooking them up together.

They arrived at around 52.69 to 52.71 v according to the BMS screen on the battery.

Should I charge them to 100% before hooking them to the solar system?

I do have solar and midnight Classic cc too.

The power supply you linked can't reach the voltages needed to charge a 48V LFP battery. I just hooked mine up and charged them Signature (I think) recommends a discharge procedure to balance the packs. Mine aren't perfectly even but I gave up worrying about it. The lights stay on. I am not a huge fan of the batteries for a few reasons but I have three of them and will use them until they die.