If buying land would you say south facing is essential for solar and/or are there other decent power options besides solar?

[Gueyog8a7]

Looking for land, especially woodland, finding south facing plots is rather rare.

Would you say it is an absolute essential for power or are there other options which could prove equally as good as solar - at an accesible price of course? I will still have very modest electrical needs for now. Just like how I have living in the van, to just be able to power electrics for rudimentary things like heater and lights and small electrical devices.

Wind I guess is an option but not sure about planning permission rules. Probably sneak on a small one or two as long as it was pretty far away from neighbours as they would be much more likely to complain of that than solar panels.

I read a bit about some of kris harbour's projects recently and saw he got hydroelectric power going. He does things on a big scale though and was pretty rich starting out so not sure how accessible it is to someone lower on the totem pole like me?

Plots with a stream though are about as rare as ones which are south facing so similar predicament.

Is solar still the best best for cost/efficiency?

Most plots I have seen so far are on a steep slope and north or e/w facing meaning almost if not 0 direct sun for north and only a few hours for e/w. Many home owners have the same issue though don't they as their home is just where it is faced and they make do with whichever way it is facing, so can the same be said in this case?

I have noticed even in the shade behind my mum's house most of the day I can get up to 2-3 amps at some periods so far depending on the weather. It seems light cloud cover is even better for this than clearskys as the rays must bounce better?

 

[frasere2]

You do not need a south facing land. You just shouldn’t angle your panels north. Test it out on pvwatts, you will find that putting panels flat or slightly tilted only results in a 10-15% loss in production. If we had your latitude it would be easy to do. And unless you are only mounting in a single row, you can install more panels in the same area thereby increasing total production (bc no inter row spaces). If you have land, ground mount at optimum angle (your latitude) toward south, even if you’re in a north facing hill.

 

[Bop]

Well here in Australia- south facing is your worst option lol...
But modern solar is far more tolerant than many believe- my old place I lived at before buying this place had an 'east west' split (which made exactly the same in good weather as a neighbour north facing array, both 6kw total, both 32kwh a day in good weather)- the surprise was in poor weather, both lost output obviously, but his 'ideal' north facing lost MORE power than our 3kw east/3kw west system did... so we ended up several kwh a day more generated in poor weather conditions...
East PV array and north facing thermal HWS panel, west PV array on the far side, and an overhead shot from google earth...

Many houses in Australia deliberately do a NE/NW split if they are 'angled wrong'- works fine too...
Even my 'temporary' setup here (offgrid) has 750w facing north and 750w facing west for the afternoon sun- the west array is still charging at full power pretty much until the sun hits the horizon- long after the north array is dropping off majorly...

Even in commercial installations, a multidirection split array can have advantages- in many houses in the UK they have relatively low powered mains grid connections (a 70A limit for the mains incoming isn't uncommon in parts of the UK), so they have a low export limit- because a multidirection array has a 'lower but broader' power curve and peak, they can have their smaller gridtie inverter running near its maximum peak output for longer, making more total per day... So an east/south/west triple array might be used... (this also gives better output in poor/ cloudy weather conditions lol- something the UK is 'notorious for'...

 

[Steve_S]

Small wind is generally more hassle than it's worth and not very performant in general. There are so many factors and quirks, don't waste your time.

Solar is the most cost effective and least problematic in general. Choosing the Right Panels for your location/installation is essential. They are NOT created equal ! Some handle shade & cloud better than others and of course monofacial vs bifacial which can be leveraged as well. Roof Installations, Ground Mounts and even fences can be done. Solar Fences are actually gaining traction because some realized this can work amazingly well.

South Facing Solar sounds good because it works and it's what everyone has been doing for years which adds a "comfort factor" that appeals to folks... You know, unconventional means the Chicken Littles come out to cluck against it.

Solar generation from East/West systems produce power peaks during the morning & the afternoon which extends the generation capability through the daylight hours. Optimally, both sides are handled by their own solar controllers and connected to the common battery bank. This is where Solar Fencing takes it's place as well... Typically a Solar Fence runs E-W using Bi-Facial Panels with 1/2 the panels flipped, meaning that the 1/2 the panels Top Face are aimed East or West. Assume you have 20 panels, 10 have East facing Top Face and the other 10 West facing. The backside generates power but less than the top side. At first Blush it doesn't seem like a simple solution BUT watch the video below, there are many more that show the advantages.

As you do not have property yet, keep your eyes open when looking at land and DO CARRY A COMPASS ! (real one) and note the lay of the land, where shadows/shade fall.

You said you are looking at "Land" bear woodlands... developed or not ? The real challenge will be getting any building permits and then being able to build something, UK is tough, stick a shovel in the ground and find archeology ! You & I both know what that means (beyond the hair pulling). If you end up being able to build something you can seriously optimize that for energy efficiency & solar Generation +. There are many options and possibilities, it just requires calm & cautious thinking & planning.

 

[Daddy Tanuki]

if it is only property barring a mountain range blocking you it matters not as you can build your solar panel field in any direction. this goes for roof mount as well.... there is no building so build to accommodate. south for the northern hemisphere, north for the southern hemisphere... is everyone here retarded? Tree's... cut them down, or build your house/solar panel array at the opposite end to avoid shadows... its not hard folks... its line of sight.

this question is about property... real estate not a building.

 

[kommando]

Panels are now so cheap the direction is less important than the room to mount, a few extra panels will offset a less than ideal orientation so the more room the better.

 

[Madcodger]

I own a 32 acre site that faces north and east, and it has great solar - just uphill! The trick is to find land that isn't too steeply sloped, so that the land itself doesn't become an obstacle. I'd suggest downloading the Sunseeker app for your phone, and using that to evaluate a site. Maybe $10 - $20 as I recall.

 

[hugemoth]

Keep in mind that trees grow every year. Here in a ponderosa pine forest in Oregon my panels had decent insolation when I installed them 35 years ago but the trees, now approaching 100' tall have grown enough that insolation has been cut in half. Wind doesn't work with tall trees around to block it.

 

[pollenface]

North is better IMO. Where the sun is

 

[hwy17]

Due south facing is not important, but sun exposure is. You need mid day sun like 11am-3pm and if the property doesn't get that due to trees or mountain shading that's a huge problem for off grid power.

And if you have 11am-3pm direct sun exposure, then it's probably possible to get a ground mount array facing south.

 

[pollenface]

I get a surprising amount of south-western sun in summer afternoons, makes me think about adding more arrays in those directions

 

[Bop]

Due south facing is not important, but sun exposure is. You need mid day sun like 11am-3pm and if the property doesn't get that due to trees or mountain shading that's a huge problem for off grid power.

And if you have 11am-3pm direct sun exposure, then it's probably possible to get a ground mount array facing south.

Depends- an east west array like my previous house had (shown above), the midday peak really isn't a 'thing'- indeed the eastern panels peaked about 10pm, and the western array about 2pm- both were well off their peak by midday- but combined still had a respectable total (about the same as either at its peak alone) and as they started literally at sunrise (the neighbours didn't start producing until a couple of hours later)- literally with only half the suns disc showing, the eastern array was already over 100W in the morning, over a kilowatt by an hour later...

My western array (shown above also) on my 'temporary' offgrid arrays also does the same- by about 3pm the northern array is well down from its midday peak, but the western array has just come into its one- and continues putting almost full output power into the battery bank right until sunset (the northern array by this time is practically zero- only making about 10-15% of its peak value)- this means I start the night with the battery bank fully charged, rather than things like the AC starting to suck power out by 3pm because the north array is no longer keeping up, the west array is only just hitting its peak output...

Which is why the final install on the house itself will be 6kw east, 6kw north and 6kw west- to maximise both early morning and late afternoon production (and give better 'poor weather' conditions output...)

 

[hwy17]

Depends- an east west array like my previous house had (shown above), the midday peak really isn't a 'thing'- indeed the eastern panels peaked about 10pm, and the western array about 2pm- both were well off their peak by midday- but combined still had a respectable total (about the same as either at its peak alone) and as they started literally at sunrise (the neighbours didn't start producing until a couple of hours later)- literally with only half the suns disc showing, the eastern array was already over 100W in the morning, over a kilowatt by an hour later...

My western array (shown above also) on my 'temporary' offgrid arrays also does the same- by about 3pm the northern array is well down from its midday peak, but the western array has just come into its one- and continues putting almost full output power into the battery bank right until sunset (the northern array by this time is practically zero- only making about 10-15% of its peak value)- this means I start the night with the battery bank fully charged, rather than things like the AC starting to suck power out by 3pm because the north array is no longer keeping up, the west array is only just hitting its peak output...

Which is why the final install on the house itself will be 6kw east, 6kw north and 6kw west- to maximise both early morning and late afternoon production (and give better 'poor weather' conditions output...)

Yes, but are you talking about E/W arrays that are still sun exposed from 10am-4pm? Those production hours are still important, even if they are not peak. If you had like an actual mountain blocking the sun during 10am-4pm that is going to be devastating for overall production no matter your orientation or peak.

OP says "almost if not 0 direct sun for north and only a few hours for e/w" for some of these properties. We should not use E/W arrays with all day exposure to give false hope. 0 direct sun or only a few hours direct sun is a huge unsolvable problem.

 

[Steve_S]

As Bop points out, for his setup for Australia, the E-N-W arrays provide the broadest generation of power and is optimal in that application. It is the next best thing to having "really good (meaning extremely expensive)" Tracking Arrays.

Given the the OP in the UK, the best setup would be East-South-West to get that nice 180-degree sweep for generation.
The OP also states they haven't gotten the property yet and is considering the issues with solar exposure and what options are available to consider.

Depending on the property the OP finds and whether it has structures or not and what the surroundings are, will obviously be dealt with then, in the meantime...

 

[Bop]

As Bop points out, for his setup for Australia, the E-N-W arrays provide the broadest generation of power and is optimal in that application. It is the next best thing to having "really good (meaning extremely expensive)" Tracking Arrays.

Given the the OP in the UK, the best setup would be East-South-West to get that nice 180-degree sweep for generation.
The OP also states they haven't gotten the property yet and is considering the issues with solar exposure and what options are available to consider.

Depending on the property the OP finds and whether it has structures or not and what the surroundings are, will obviously be dealt with then, in the meantime...

Indeed that bottom photo up above with the south/east/west triple array on the house is from the UK (installed by a youtuber called Artisan Electrics)
Certainly 'every' property needs to be evaluated on its own merits, but there are few that can't have at least 'some' form of solar to meet at least part of their needs
(even in the Antarctic, us Aussies use solar arrays- they may not work year round, but when they are working, they make a huge dent in diesel consumption... about a 60% reduction per year in fact...)



Tracking arrays are expensive initially and have ongoing maintence costs and breakdown/ replacement issues to worry about, here in Australia big 'solar farms' really aren't a 'big thing' (it makes better sense to have a 'distributed generation' system (ie rooftop residential and commercial property with rooftop solar) but many of the existing solar farms (many who are struggling with those maintenance costs) have simply taken to 'parking' their arrays half facing east and half west...

 

[DIYrich]

All else being equal, if you need X number of panels with a south facing property, and 2x panels with an east or west facing property, then factor that into the price you are willing to pay. If X number of panels cost $10,000, then your break-even is $A for the south facing property, and $A-$10,000 for the E-W facing property. There might be other reasons for one being worth more than the other (water, view, access, etc), but you can quantify the value of south vs e-w facing.

 

[hwy17]

Indeed that bottom photo up above with the south/east/west triple array on the house is from the UK (installed by a youtuber called Artisan Electrics)
Certainly 'every' property needs to be evaluated on its own merits, but there are few that can't have at least 'some' form of solar to meet at least part of their needs
(even in the Antarctic, us Aussies use solar arrays they may not work year round, but when they are working, they make a huge dent in diesel consumption... about a 60% reduction per year in fact...)

View attachment 195500View attachment 195501

Those antarctic arrays look like they get direct sun. In the summer.

 

[Surferdudemi]

Just saw a YouTube video where a guy tested bi-facial planted vertically E-W vs conventional and bi-facial facing south. Vertical E-W was competitive, and split the curve to provide power more in line with usage (anti-duck curve). Interesting results with snow, too.

 

[hwy17]

You guys are all discussing this like we're talking about a mounting issue, where OP can't mount panels facing south, but has full sun exposure.

Read the gravity of these words:

almost if not 0 direct sun for north and only a few hours for e/w

He's talking about shaded property. Shaded property exists, we have it here in the santa cruz mountains. Solar does not work on shaded property.

 

[Bop]

All else being equal, if you need X number of panels with a south facing property, and 2x panels with an east or west facing property, then factor that into the price you are willing to pay. If X number of panels cost $10,000, then your break-even is $A for the south facing property, and $A-$10,000 for the E-W facing property. There might be other reasons for one being worth more than the other (water, view, access, etc), but you can quantify the value of south vs e-w facing.

I think you are getting confused- you don't NEED twice the number of panels...
As our experience showed, our split 6kw of panels (3kw east, 3kw west) at the old house made the same daily total (almost to the single tenth of a kwh) as the same 6kw all facing north did at the neighbours house...
Yes the 'midday peak' was lower (by about a third...) but the extended generation time made up for that 'missing peak' and poor weather (cloud cover) output was markedly higher than the 'ideal' north facing (norh for here LOL)