Installed Victron MP II 48 / 5000 -- Thanks Adam for Ignoring AC Input Video

[Dinobot248]

@Adam De Lay

I wanted to say thanks for posting your "Different Ways to Ignore AC Input on a Victron MultiPlus 2 Inverter" video. Link is below.

I recently invested in the Victron ecosystem (MP II 48/5000, Lynx Distribution kit, Cerbo GX, SCC, etc). With one Multiplus running single phase 120v, I am now able to run my whole house while using the grid as an automated backup for loads over 4500w.

The new system has been running for about 3 days and the new assistants have been running for about 15 minutes. AC input correctly shut off when SOC reached 80%.


So far, what I really like about my new system ...

1. The AC input integrates very well. When I set it up 30A AC input max, it first covers the house loads then charges the battery with the remaining. The EG4 6500EX took a different approach and would apply the full 30A AC input to the battery and draw additional AC power to cover the house load. This meant that I could blow fuses since I did not know what the actual draw from the AC input would be.




So far, what I don't like or don't understand ...

1. Computing or verifying efficiency of the inverter is difficult when Victron appears to list VA (volt amps) as watts and there is no power factor listing. If looking at the Remote Console, I think the AC Loads (green box) is showing VA (volt amps) as watts.



Thanks again !!



My Solar Todo and Wish List

1. Tweak the grid start and stop thresholds to better fit my situation. Currently set at 4500w to enable grid and 2000w to disable grid.

2. Install 6awg THHN wire for AC input. Currently jerry rigged two 12awg extension cords and running max AC input at 30A.

3. Clean up and align the wiring for my load center. It works but wires are like sphaghetti.

4. Post an unboxing of the Oasesenergy 12v 100ah lifepo4 battery. I bought it since you can open the battery and cells are supposedly mounted in an internal metal rack and not glued. Battery should arrive second week of the new year.

5. Build my first DIY battery with grade B 305ah cells from 18650 battery store. Chose the the Over Kill BMS. Its more expensive but warranty is idiot proof e.g. free replacement if I break the BMS. Cells should arrive first week of the new year.

6. Cut some trees to open up the canopy and collect more solar

 

[sunshine_eggo]

1. The AC input integrates very well. When I set it up 30A AC input max, it first covers the house loads then charges the battery with the remaining. The EG4 6500EX took a different approach and would apply the full 30A AC input to the battery and draw additional AC power to cover the house load. This meant that I could blow fuses since I did not know what the actual draw from the AC input would be.

AND the Victron will boost grid if > 30A loads are drawn.

So far, what I don't like or don't understand ...

1. Computing or verifying efficiency of the inverter is difficult when Victron appears to list VA (volt amps) as watts and there is no power factor listing. If looking at the Remote Console, I think the AC Loads (green box) is showing VA (volt amps) as watts.

How would an inverter know what the power factor of the various loads are? All it knows is the amps and volts it's providing. When you see ac load reporting 5000, you know you're at the limit. The power factor is applied at the load.

My Solar Todo and Wish List

1. Tweak the grid start and stop thresholds to better fit my situation. Currently set at 4500w to enable grid and 2000w to disable grid.

2. Install 6awg THHN wire for AC input. Currently jerry rigged two 12awg extension cords and running max AC input at 30A.

12awg is typically rated for 20A, not 30A.

3. Clean up and align the wiring for my load center. It works but wires are like sphaghetti.

I keep telling myself I'm going to do the same.

6. Cut some trees to open up the canopy and collect more solar

Like very hard.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Also want to throw in a +1 to @Adam De Lay. Adam's videos helped me work through the Cerbo Generator controls to allow for automatic switchover based on SoC.

 

[Adam De Lay]

I wanted to say thanks for posting your "Different Ways to Ignore AC Input on a Victron MultiPlus 2 Inverter" video.

Your welcome! Glad it helps!

So far, what I don't like or don't understand ...

1. Computing or verifying efficiency of the inverter is difficult when Victron appears to list VA (volt amps) as watts and there is no power factor listing. If looking at the Remote Console, I think the AC Loads (green box) is showing VA (volt amps) as watts.

Eggo is correct. PF comes in to play with the actual load, not the inverters. Different loads will have different PF but the inverter just deals with volts and amps.

 

[Adam De Lay]

Also want to throw in a +1 to @Adam De Lay. Adam's videos helped me work through the Cerbo Generator controls to allow for automatic switchover based on SoC.

You’re welcome!

 

[ricardocello]

The middle section of that video about using the Generator Start/Stop for Grid usage control was eye-opening. Thanks @Adam De Lay

I'm always amazed when I see new Cerbo GX menus, and how much flexibility and thought that went into the design.
Making AC Input settings changes through the Cerbo is definitely the way to go (not VEConfigure).

Glad the OP has been able to make it all work.

 

[Adam De Lay]

Thanks @Adam De Lay

You’re welcome!

Making AC Input settings changes through the Cerbo is definitely the way to go (not VEConfigure).

Yeah, if I can make settings more available outside of VE Config, that’s a win in my book. While I’ve gotten used to using Remote VEConfigure feature of the VRM, it still means I have to make changes on my old windows laptop…

 

[Dinobot248]

Thought I keep this thread going.

While in the Remote Console, Generator start/stop section, how do you activate the generator (its really the grid in this case) based on battery voltage. I'm not at home, but when I click through eventually to the Conditions section, it list the battery as 12v. Obviously I have a 48v system. Not sure if its a bug, unintended consequence of outsmarting the system, or where the Cerbo is getting the info that the battery system is 12V.

I'm asking since I had to shutdown my system while setting it up and add back one of my 48v server rack batteries that I had on my test bench. When the system (lynx shunt) came back online, it was reading the battery voltage correctly but did not know or display the SOC %. I was not able to manually enter an estimated SOC % in the Remote Console and ended up charging the batteries to full which allowed the Lynx shunt to finally display the SOC at 100%.



To restate the above in a short sentence, the Cerbo GX relay 1 configuration relies on the SOC % level or AC load threshold to trigger the generator (its really the grid in this case). That's great about 99.99% of the time but through trial and error, I want to figure out how to add a condition based on the 48v battery. Currently, the Remote Console thinks or list the battery threshold for a 12v system.

 

[Adam De Lay]

I was not able to manually enter an estimated SOC % in the Remote Console and ended up charging the batteries to full which allowed the Lynx shunt to finally display the SOC at 100%.

Yeah, I believe you have to use the Victron Connect app to be able to set the SOC after a power loss (unfortunately it can’t remember like the smart shunt can). You have to manually trigger it to be 100% first and then you can manually change the SOC to whatever value the VRM last reported. A pain, I know, but it works.

To restate the above in a short sentence, the Cerbo GX relay 1 configuration relies on the SOC % level or AC load threshold to trigger the generator (its really the grid in this case). That's great about 99.99% of the time but through trial and error, I want to figure out how to add a condition based on the 48v battery. Currently, the Remote Console thinks or list the battery threshold for a 12v system.

Yeah I saw the voltage condition. I’m not sure if it’s all based off 12v values or if they’re just placeholders. You could try setting the values close to what your battery voltage is right now and then trigger a high load to see if it switches over to grid when the voltage drops.

 

[Madcodger]

Yeah, if I can make settings more available outside of VE Config, that’s a win in my book.

1) Also really appreciate your videos. Thanks for making them available.
2) Being able to make adjustments to my system without having to connect a Windows laptop might finally get me to spring for a Cerbo GX instead of just relying on my trusty ol' Raspberry Pi running Venus OS, which does * almost * everything I need. Thinking...

 

[Adam De Lay]

1) Also really appreciate your videos. Thanks for making them available.
2) Being able to make adjustments to my system without having to connect a Windows laptop might finally get me to spring for a Cerbo GX instead of just relying on my trusty ol' Raspberry Pi running Venus OS, which does * almost * everything I need. Thinking...

Your welcome!

You can use the raspberry pi to control the generator start/stop, you just have to add some external relays. $8 relay boards are a lot cheaper that the Cerbo…unless you need all the extra ports as well.

 

[740GLE]

Your welcome! Glad it helps!


Eggo is correct. PF comes in to play with the actual load, not the inverters. Different loads will have different PF but the inverter just deals with volts and amps.

The capacity of the inverter has thermal limits, poor PF eats into that thermal capacity. That’s why the inverter could come into overload alarm when only 80% watts are being consumed.

The inverter should be able to report PF of the loads as it’s just the relationship of the phase angle of current and voltage.

I don’t like how victron inverters on the cerbo don’t show PF but just watts.

 

[Madcodger]

Your welcome!

You can use the raspberry pi to control the generator start/stop, you just have to add some external relays. $8 relay boards are a lot cheaper that the Cerbo…unless you need all the extra ports as well.

I've done that, in a "Rube Goldberg" way! The gen start relay on my Multiplus turns on a z-wave dry contact sensor at 35% SOC. That tells a Hubitat home automation device back in the garage to turn on a switch, that powers an AC line running out to the Multiplus. When it hits 95%, the gen start relay opens, the contact sensor opens, and the Hubitat device turns the switch off. I could put the switch (or just a relay) right at the Muliplus, of course, but this keeps the entire line deenergized except for when we need it to supply "recharge" power.

The 35% / 95% levels are, of course, completely arbitrary and lately I've changed the Hubitat device to not turn on the switch, but instead just notify me, so I can decide whether to turn the circuit on, or just wait for the sun. The big lure of the Cerbo GX would be the ability to change the SOC % at which the gen start relay is activated/deactivated. Could I do that through the CGX? Currently, I have to drag out the only Windows computer we own (all Macs otherwise), fire it up, connect it to the Multiplus using the same cable I use for the RPi, and make the adjustment.

 

[Adam De Lay]

I've done that, in a "Rube Goldberg" way! The gen start relay on my Multiplus turns on a z-wave dry contact sensor at 35% SOC. That tells a Hubitat home automation device back in the garage to turn on a switch, that powers an AC line running out to the Multiplus. When it hits 95%, the gen start relay opens, the contact sensor opens, and the Hubitat device turns the switch off. I could put the switch (or just a relay) right at the Muliplus, of course, but this keeps the entire line deenergized except for when we need it to supply "recharge" power.

The 35% / 95% levels are, of course, completely arbitrary and lately I've changed the Hubitat device to not turn on the switch, but instead just notify me, so I can decide whether to turn the circuit on, or just wait for the sun. The big lure of the Cerbo GX would be the ability to change the SOC % at which the gen start relay is activated/deactivated. Could I do that through the CGX? Currently, I have to drag out the only Windows computer we own (all Macs otherwise), fire it up, connect it to the Multiplus using the same cable I use for the RPi, and make the adjustment.

Yeah it sounds like you could drastically simplify things by adding a relay to the Pi and then using the GX Pi to control the SOC.

I have to keep an old windows laptop around just to program the MP…

 

[ricardocello]

I have to keep an old windows laptop around just to program the MP…

Currently, I have to drag out the only Windows computer we own (all Macs otherwise), fire it up, connect it to the Multiplus using the same cable I use for the RPi, and make the adjustment.

VEConfigure on Windows: This is by far my biggest issue with all of my Victron gear. As soon as you need Assistants (ESS, Programmable Relay, etc.) you can't use shiny new Victron Connect.

I've been told VEConfigure can work in Parallels on a Mac, but for me that's worse than dragging out my ancient Windows XP laptop.

 

[Adam De Lay]

VEConfigure on Windows: This is by far my biggest issue with all of my Victron gear. As soon as you need Assistants (ESS, Programmable Relay, etc.) you can't use shiny new Victron Connect.

Agreed. Supposedly Victron is working on porting everything over to Victron Connect. Hopefully that happens soon…

I've been told VEConfigure can work in Parallels on a Mac, but for me that's worse than dragging out my ancient Windows XP laptop.

yeah I’ve heard the same thing as well. Don’t wana pay for it for the one program…

 

[Madcodger]

Agreed. Supposedly Victron is working on porting everything over to Victron Connect. Hopefully that happens soon…

yeah I’ve heard the same thing as well. Don’t wana pay for it for the one program…

Amen on all counts! I'm a big fan of Victron, but these delays in making everything available via Connect, and requiring use of Windows, is really aggravating. My Victron gear is the only reason I keep an old Windows laptop around. It sits on a shelf near the Multiplus, and I spend the first hour or so running Windows updates every time I grudgingly decide to update something on the Multiplus. I tried running Parallels years ago and was not a fan. I hear it's now much better, but for me, it's not worth it as long as the old laptop still runs and I don't need to update/change the Multiplus very often.

 

[sunshine_eggo]

Are you guys just a bunch of mac goobers or what? I have half a dozen Windows 10/11 machines, including the laughable mini-PC on which I'm running my Batrium Toolkit, that I can run VEConfigure remotely via VRM from 3.5 hours away.

I was forced to use a Macbook Pro by my then employer from 2014 to 2016, and it was the worst two years of my digital life.

 

[ricardocello]

Are you guys just a bunch of mac goobers or what? I have half a dozen Windows 10/11 machines, including the laughable mini-PC on which I'm running my Batrium Toolkit, that I can run VEConfigure remotely via VRM from 3.5 hours away.

I was forced to use a Macbook Pro by my then employer from 2014 to 2016, and it was the worst two years of my digital life.

Not a mac goober, just hate windows which i’ve been forced to use at work for 30 years now.
All of my PCs at home run Linux Mint, mostly for software development.
The macs are for the creative stuff, like making drawings and block diagrams.
I use the right tool for the job. If I were using Solidworks, I‘d have a windows laptop.

 

[Partimewages]

ALL FRUIT GOSE BAD!!!