Inverter Kicking Off

[Zil]

They must do electric different in Iowa.

The compressor motor will use the same Watts while running. If the temperature of the unit shuts down the motor, It uses no watts. But when it is running it uses the same watts.
The overall use of power is Watt Hours. That is a measurement of Watts that are used over a measured time. The motor still needs the same Watts while it is running.

Start Up Amps/Watts = 6.3 / 724.5. Running Amps/Watts = 1.5 / 172.5 is the rated.

So you're saying it needs three times the start up?

If that was the case it seems like the inverter would have trouble on start up, not after a few hours of running when its already done the major cooling work

I am glad you solved the problem. That problem was voltage drop. Bad connection caused voltage drop. See post number 5 above.

That quoted post was made because this whole thread went well off track. A real train wreck. I'm sorry we can be so nuts.
Just for information; The manual for my Samlex inverter would size the inverter for that fridge at 173 times three for a 520 watt inverter. Sized up to what is available. I guess 1000W maybe.

 

[wmgeorge]

Sounds like you have it handled and the Watt Meter showed its worth but the suggestion to clean and redo the connections did the trick.

12Volt it makes no difference where the condenser is located on the unit as long as it get circulation of air. The compressor wattage depends on the load, just like any motor. Most of our commercial units had remote condensers on the roof or side of the building. Some had water cooled from city water or a water tower.

Zi that's not how a motor works. Nameplate amps are the spec'd amps the load determines the motor actual ampere draw. Look it up, You do not list your qualifications, mine are I have been working in the electrical and HVAC field for 60 years or so. Prove me wrong with your facts....

Here I helped you this is only one of dozens > https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/motor-pulley-diameter-amperage.103622/ And another >> https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/a-c-compressor-amp-draw.146667/

You said above "They must do electric different in Iowa. " YES we do ^^^^ .

 

[12VoltInstalls]

They must do electric different in Iowa.

The compressor motor will use the same Watts while running. If the temperature of the unit shuts down the motor, It uses no watts. But when it is running it uses the same watts.

Apparently
I use New England electrical breeding habits

makes no difference where the condenser is located on the unit as long as it get circulation air.

It makes a huge difference to me!
I would want to build it into a cabinet area and that limits airflow to the sides and top AND I’d want to add insulation to the unit. A separate cooling unit is able to be provided cooling airflow by ducting.

Zi that's not how a motor works

That’s how my fridge works. It only uses power while running- 60-80W, and it spikes over 800W on startup.

The compressor motor will use the same Watts while running. If the temperature of the unit shuts down the motor, It uses no watts. But when it is running it uses the same watts.
The overall use of power is Watt Hours. That is a measurement of Watts that are used over a measured time. The motor still needs the same Watts while it is running.

That sounds like normal operation to me.
Unclear to me what the argument is. ?‍

 

[wmgeorge]

Oh If you want to put a refrigerator in a enclosed cabinet you need a air intake down low and something like one of those muffin fans used in computer power supply's. Most of those are 12 volt. The fan mounts in a hole cut up high to exhaust the warm air.

Motors draw amps according to the load on the motor. Nameplates have other info besides FLA and Volts. Something called a Service Factor or SF. A SF of 1.0 says the motor can only be loaded to the nameplate amps without issue. A SF of say 1.25 means the motor can be over nameplate amp load by 25%. Refrigeration hermitic compressors amp draw depends on the load conditions, high ambient or higher than normal evaporator loading or more Btu load results in higher ampere draw. They are designed to carry that load for a short time. Same for a belt or direct drive motor. A squirrel cage blower motor in your furnace will be more than likely overloaded if you let it move more air, like removing the blower door. The more air moved in cfm equals more load on the motor.

 

[Zil]

Well, wmgeorge. Going back over this thread this is the first time I use the word Amps. My reference to the motor nameplate was for determining the inverter size based on the motor specification tag listed Watts. That determination is from a SamlexPower inverter installation manual. Not a slack organization.
My qualifications are the same as yours, as listed under my name. Just another ass on the internet.
However I have skills in Reading Comprehension. and, I apologized for my friends derailing the train.

 

[wmgeorge]

Well, wmgeorge. Going back over this thread this is the first time I use the word Amps. My reference to the motor nameplate was for determining the inverter size based on the motor specification tag listed Watts. That determination is from a SamlexPower inverter installation manual. Not a slack organization.
My qualifications are the same as yours, as listed under my name. Just another ass on the internet.
However I have skills in Reading Comprehension. and, I apologized for my friends derailing the train.

Its too bad your "Just another Ass on the Internet" that does not do you well on the pay scale as you seem to be much more qualified. I was paid well for my skills I have listed.

 

[Gabrielle]

Don't forget the stress test.

I'm planning on it but the only heater I have is 1500 watt and I'm not able to get a 1000 watt to plug in at the moment.

 

[Gabrielle]

Give us an update in a few days. I think it sounds like you have it but that was a curious thing.

Maybe you posted it but a link to the undercounter freezer? How many CF? Does it have a separated coil to bleed heat, or does it radiate heat from the case? Is it “frost free?”
I’m super intrigued by that - although the wattage is a tad high it should run less often (than a fridge) in theory mitigation overall consumption.

3.5 CF
It's a cheap amazon freezer with the temp controller I posted added. I think it radiates heat from the case? but I'm not sure.. I also don't know if its frost free but its frost free the way I'm using it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094MYKTDF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Seems I don't quite have it. It's now shutting off at around 4 to 5 hours average. So something seemed to change but I'm still troubleshooting. I haven't grounded the inverter and customer service for GoWise thinks this could be causing problematic static

 

[Gabrielle]

They must do electric different in Iowa.

The compressor motor will use the same Watts while running. If the temperature of the unit shuts down the motor, It uses no watts. But when it is running it uses the same watts.
The overall use of power is Watt Hours. That is a measurement of Watts that are used over a measured time. The motor still needs the same Watts while it is running.

I am glad you solved the problem. That problem was voltage drop. Bad connection caused voltage drop. See post number 5 above.

That quoted post was made because this whole thread went well off track. A real train wreck. I'm sorry we can be so nuts.
Just for information; The manual for my Samlex inverter would size the inverter for that fridge at 173 times three for a 520 watt inverter. Sized up to what is available. I guess 1000W maybe.

I still don't think this is correct. (again limited knowledge here.. but if the motor does not have to run at its full capacity doesn't it use less watts? and are you saying the kill-a-watt meter is not accurate when it reads 70 watts with compressor on? Regardless sounds like 1000 watt would be appropriate for this fridge

I'm still tinkering.. turns out that wasn't it afterall.

 

[Gabrielle]

Apparently
I use New England electrical breeding habits

It makes a huge difference to me!
I would want to build it into a cabinet area and that limits airflow to the sides and top AND I’d want to add insulation to the unit. A separate cooling unit is able to be provided cooling airflow by ducting.

That’s how my fridge works. It only uses power while running- 60-80W, and it spikes over 800W on startup.

That sounds like normal operation to me.
Unclear to me what the argument is. ?‍

Why would you add insulation to the unit? just curious..that's the whole reason I used a freezer

 

[Gabrielle]

I think everyone here has unique skills, qualifications and talents! Sorry to see my thread inspiring conflict. I think its pretty sweet to be able to get off the grid and benefit from the minds of others who are building these systems and come from so many backgrounds. Again, grateful for all the input regarding this setup as a newbie.

I'm attaching another photo just to give a full picture of my setup. This is the location of the old propane/electric fridge that I tore out. So the wires for the panels run up through the fridge vent and the battery is down below where the furnace used to be.

I think from here I'm just going to give it a rest and come back to it in a few weeks. I'll be away from my rv for that time so that brings up another question. What's best practice for storage? My rv will be outside for those 2 weeks. I'll disconnect the going-wack inverter of course, but was thinking it would be best to disconnect controller as well. Are the panels on the roof okay being disconnected for that time? I'm thinking this is fine but want to be sure.

 

[sunshine]

Except- the inverter is kicking off after a few hours of running.

Just to add to a already convulated thread my fridge has started shutting down my hf inverter around 10am. Appears to be causing the high voltage protection in the inverter to cut out. Runs all night and day other than this time when V is highest??

What's best practice for storage?

Disconnect everything!

 

[Roswell Bob]

-

 

[wmgeorge]

3.5 CF
It's a cheap amazon freezer with the temp controller I posted added. I think it radiates heat from the case? but I'm not sure.. I also don't know if its frost free but its frost free the way I'm using it.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094MYKTDF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Seems I don't quite have it. It's now shutting off at around 4 to 5 hours average. So something seemed to change but I'm still troubleshooting. I haven't grounded the inverter and customer service for GoWise thinks this could be causing problematic static

After its been running for a while and before it shuts off, carefully touch the 12 volt connections and see if they are getting warm or hot? I have a IR laser type thermometer from Harbor Freight that could be used to actually measure temperature. https://www.harborfreight.com/121-infrared-laser-thermometer-63985.html?_br_psugg_q=thermometer

Added tripping off on high voltage.... wonder if its a bad inverter? Is this the model you have? https://www.amazon.com/Power-TechOn-Inverter-Outlets-PS1002/dp/B0131L8NLM According to the Owners Manual the over voltage trip out is at 16 vdc, may be the charger you have is creating this issue? OR the Inverter is bad.

 

[Roswell Bob]

View attachment 93102
This is our inverter's power graph. When the fridge starts there is a 776W spike, and 100W constant until the compressor stops. The freezer is the similar with only 180W spike and 75W until the compressor stops. The fridge is a full size household one and the freezer is an under counter one.

What are you using for gear to make this measurement? What is the time scale?

 

[fega72]

What are you using for gear to make this measurement? What is the time scale?

Victron Multiplus inverter, Victron Venus GX for processing the data + Grafana for displaying it. The fridge on time is about 9min.

 

[Gabrielle]

After its been running for a while and before it shuts off, carefully touch the 12 volt connections and see if they are getting warm or hot? I have a IR laser type thermometer from Harbor Freight that could be used to actually measure temperature. https://www.harborfreight.com/121-infrared-laser-thermometer-63985.html?_br_psugg_q=thermometer

Added tripping off on high voltage.... wonder if its a bad inverter? Is this the model you have? https://www.amazon.com/Power-TechOn-Inverter-Outlets-PS1002/dp/B0131L8NLM According to the Owners Manual the over voltage trip out is at 16 vdc, may be the charger you have is creating this issue? OR the Inverter is bad.

I have been checking on the connections and they aren't getting hot or warm at all. That is the inverter model I have. I'm talking to the company now and wondering if I got a faulty one. Seems like its not the charger since it will still do this when I disconnect the charger and test the inverter off just the battery

 

[Gabrielle]

I'm up late still obsessing over this.

Funny thing I discovered tonight- this freezer has a "refrigerator" setting, making the temp controller pointless. I thought it was so clever to convert it that way but useless step.. oh well, learning. Not that it changes the inverter problem anyway.

I'm now wondering if it's because it's not grounded. The company says it could be causing problems from static. Seems unlikely to be the problem. Same for their idea of a blown fuse inside the inverter. But figured I'll try grounding it as I planned to in general, just haven't yet. I don't have the manual in front of me but as far as grounding says something along the lines of "ground to the chassis with a wire that is up to one size smaller than the inverter cable"

This would mean I need a 6 AWG or even 4 AWG run to the chassis from the inverter case? Seems odd when the grounding post is so small on the inverter. Just run it from there down to the chassis and screw the wire in anywhere on the metal?

I've scoured this forum and internet in general re: grounding and it just is not clear to me...

When parked if I want to earth ground it I would just run a wire from the case to a metal post (like a copper rod) in the earth? Or if it's already grounded to the chassis for driving then when parked extend it from chassis to the earth post?

 

[John Frum]

@Gabrielle do you still have a problem?
If yes, what is the problem?

 

[John Frum]

When parked if I want to earth ground it I would just run a wire from the case to a metal post (like a copper rod) in the earth?

Grounding is complicated and not do be done capriciously.
Please read and understand this whole series of documents before you start poking the beast.

Grounding Made simpler - Part 1: AC/houshold grounding

To get the paper, click on the orange button at the top of the screen. The subject of grounding is a complex, multifaceted subject, that is often treated as an after-thought but needs to be considered from the beginning of the design and build...

diysolarforum.com