Is there a current "hot" lead-acid battery?

[copec]

I'm going through the process of making my system legal and have been running a Deye hybrid inverter for a couple of years with my Nissan Leaf based battery, preliminary talk gave me the impression they probably wouldn't be okay with the battery even though we are IRC 2015 and NEC 2017, so I want to just get some lead-acid chemistry to act mostly in a grid outage.

It would be interesting to use 2V cells, then I could play with my Nuvation managing them and one of my JK balancers across 24 cells, but people buying smaller 2V lead-acid deep cycle individual cells doesn't seem to be a thing

After I pass and get inspected and stuff I'll parallel up my second Deye and switch to a new battery array, but that'll be a bit while I work on it.

Is there a way to access each cell's terminals in some brands of AGMs?

 

[rhino]

Sorry.. I wasn't following why you are wanting to go with a Pb battery instead of LiFePO4? I can see why they wouldn't approve a Nissan Leaf battery.

 

[copec]

I figured it's old tech and well understood, so it wouldn't trouble them, and if they randomly decide to use newer code (since by our city ordinances they should be going by 2011, they already told me they are going by newer years) lead-acid is specifically singled out in NEC Section 706.5 as not needing to be listed and labelled as part of an energy storage system.

 

[A.Justice]

I would recommend Trojans or Rolls Surette if you want a high quality lead acid bank. If you keep the discharge shallow and water them, they'll last for quite a while.

The more questionable route would be to install some cheap batteries for the inspection, and then reinstall your lithium modules after.

 

[copec]

I would recommend Trojans or Rolls Surette if you want a high quality lead acid bank. If you keep the discharge shallow and water them, they'll last for quite a while.

The more questionable route would be to install some cheap batteries for the inspection, and then reinstall your lithium modules after.

I don't buy anything unless I plan to use it up, so even if I put my lithium batteries back in place, I would still use them up in some other application, so I'm not anti high quality batteries, although I do trust the lithium batteries I make more than the inexpensive UL listed/certified batteries.

 

[RoySalisbury]

Personally I started out with Trojan L16P 6v-410a batteries. I stated with 8 of them in a 24v system. Within a year 2 of them had died. I replaced them, but the batteries were now out of balance (old and new) and I got 4 more to try to recover... It was a never ending battle. I even got an auto watering system so I was sure not to mess things up. They just kept going downhill.

After 5 years I just replaced the entire bank with 16 FullRiver DC400 6v-400amp AGM's. These have been running for about 4 1/2 years with no issues. I really like them.

Unfortunately I am now in the position that I need MORE backup power and expanding the bank is just not an option. They are just too old to add another 16 brand news ones into. PLUS, the cost is actually worse than LiFePO4. 2 of the FullRiver batteries would be $1200. But 8 of the LF230 LiFePO4 batteries is $976. Another $100 for the BMS, and its still cheaper. And I get over twice the capacity .. and longer life.

It was no question what batteries to get.

I'll be trying to work out some type of system to keep the AGM's online and in good condition (perhaps some type of backup bank), but its LiFePO4 going forward.

 

[copec]

I really like what I read about the carbon foam batteries, and I could use them in the hybrid energy buffer type fashion similar to how I’ve been using batteries, but they seem expensive.

 

[Hedges]

If batteries are to be part of inspected system, possibly sealed and UL Recognized is better. My SunXtender AGM are. They are expected to have 10 year float life. Some FLA like Rolls Surette or forklift batteries are known to last 20 years properly charged and maintained, with mostly shallow cycling.

 

[pvdude]

Rolls sure does make some excellent 2volt FLA's, wish I could afford 24 of them here!
(I went with eight of the 6volt)

 

[jberger]

I really like what I read about the carbon foam batteries, and I could use them in the hybrid energy buffer type fashion similar to how I’ve been using batteries, but they seem expensive.

You might want to check out the marine forums and read the number of people who use Carbon Foam AGM to replace standard AGM.
They are probably better than AGM, but come with some very unique charging requirements.
I looked at them when I was planning the repower in our RV, and chose LFP instead.

Make sure you read some of the threads where they have had them a long time, and how the opinions changed over time.

FireFly Battery Operational User Notes - Cruisers & Sailing Forums

We all know there is a learning curve to really know how to best operate different batteries . So since I haven't found a lot of user experience for the FireFly batteries it seemed worth it to start a

www.cruisersforum.com

 

[Rossman]

Rolls definitely seem to be the best when it comes to flooded lead acid.

I recommend watching the Rolls Battery Engineering youtube channel they have a ton of good tips on taking care of them, including tweaks to common inverter/charger settings for best performance/lifespan - if I have found it sooner my poor Rolls 2V batteries would have been with me a lot longer :-/

 

[copec]

If batteries are to be part of inspected system, possibly sealed and UL Recognized is better. My SunXtender AGM are. They are expected to have 10 year float life. Some FLA like Rolls Surette or forklift batteries are known to last 20 years properly charged and maintained, with mostly shallow cycling.

Yeah I’ve been looking at sealed AGM because they haven’t answered me if they would be looking at anything more than a outside vented battery enclosure for FLA. It seems UL Recognized AGM would be the all around safest option.

 

[copec]

Rolls definitely seem to be the best when it comes to flooded lead acid.

I recommend watching the Rolls Battery Engineering youtube channel they have a ton of good tips on taking care of them, including tweaks to common inverter/charger settings for best performance/lifespan - if I have found it sooner my poor Rolls 2V batteries would have been with me a lot longer :-/

Those rolls videos have been great! Thanks!

 

[foggysail]

Personally I started out with Trojan L16P 6v-410a batteries. I stated with 8 of them in a 24v system. Within a year 2 of them had died. I replaced them, but the batteries were now out of balance (old and new) and I got 4 more to try to recover... It was a never ending battle. I even got an auto watering system so I was sure not to mess things up. They just kept going downhill.

My guess is that you had your charge voltage set too high resulting in water loss. I have 6v East Penns on my boat that are 5 years old and still going strong. I set both the charging and float voltages in my Victron solar controller to the battery's specifications. Also, does your charger automatically equalize the batteries?

Spending big bucks for lead acid batteries with pedigree papers IMHO is a waste of money especially if they are not properly managed

 

[Ampster]

It seems UL Recognized AGM would be the all around safest option.

I think they also assumed that some people would not be able to differentiate between Lipo and LFP and they took the safest approach to require all Lithium chemistries to be Listed. Even though they are a nonprofit, It does mean more revenue to them. It also gave a big boost to the companies that would obtain that Listing.

 

[12VoltInstalls]

I’ve been looking at sealed AGM

Don’t forget that there is a WIDE range of AGM design intent and quality. Most commodity AGMs are going to disappoint for lifespan while being fantastic for a year or so. The fancy ones (not heavily cycled) seem to have good reports. But from what I’ve seen commodity AGM is nearly always an expensive short-term battery if you use them.

Have you made any decisions on this?

 

[B.Babs]

I really like what I read about the carbon foam batteries, and I could use them in the hybrid energy buffer type fashion similar to how I’ve been using batteries, but they seem expensive.

Firefly is no longer in business but they still hold the patent to carbon foam..