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diy solar

LFP for EV's projected to be less than $56 per kWh within 6 months

I think most EV have gear reduction. Just not changeable gear ratios.
Engines tend to have 3000 to 10,000 RPM redline. Does Tesla's motor run up to 24,000 RPM? (400 Hz)

Just a differential has gears, but additional reduction might be used beyond the usual 3:1 or so. High gear of some transmissions is straight through, and 3600 RPM would give 86 mph if drive wheel was 24" OD.
 
Does Tesla's motor run up to 24,000 RPM? (400 Hz)
From what I know the Tesla plaid with higher speed (by Ingenext) reach = 216 mph (348 km/h)
Gear ratio: 7.56 to 1, tires 305/30R20, so 461 tire turn / km, that give motor 20,214 rpm
 
I think most EV have gear reduction. Just not changeable gear ratios.
Engines tend to have 3000 to 10,000 RPM redline. Does Tesla's motor run up to 24,000 RPM? (400 Hz)

Just a differential has gears, but additional reduction might be used beyond the usual 3:1 or so. High gear of some transmissions is straight through, and 3600 RPM would give 86 mph if drive wheel was 24" OD.
18000 rpm max for most other tesla models execpt the >1000hp model S Plaid with 23000rpm carbon fiber reinforced motor rotors.
 
Wind turbine have the opposite problem. Too much torque and not enough rotational speed 🤣
 
My Niro EV:

Transmission TypeGear Reduction UnitGear Reduction UnitGear Reduction Unit
Final Gear Ratio (Constant)8.206:18.206:18.206:1

Torque291 lb.-ft. @ 0 - 3,600 rpm291 lb.-ft. @ 0 - 3,600 rpm291 lb.-ft. @ 0 - 3,600 rpm

No indication of max RPM. I have exceeded 85MPH in Texas briefly did not seem to bother it much and I was not topped out, though I must keep it under 70 to get some reasonable range. Math:

215/55R17
Diameter : 26.3"
Width : 8.5"
Wheel : 17" x 6-7.5"
Sidewall : 4.7"
Circum. : 82.6"
Revs/Mile : 767

63360 in / mile. / 82.6 = 767.07 spins to go one mile so to go 100 miles in one hour 76707 revolutions of the tire / 60 min = 1278.45 revolutions of the tire * 8.206 = 10491 rpm. I'm guessing the Tesla numbers are in the general neighborhood.
 
My Niro EV:

Transmission TypeGear Reduction UnitGear Reduction UnitGear Reduction Unit
Final Gear Ratio (Constant)8.206:18.206:18.206:1

Torque291 lb.-ft. @ 0 - 3,600 rpm291 lb.-ft. @ 0 - 3,600 rpm291 lb.-ft. @ 0 - 3,600 rpm

No indication of max RPM. I have exceeded 85MPH in Texas briefly did not seem to bother it much and I was not topped out, though I must keep it under 70 to get some reasonable range. Math:

215/55R17
Diameter : 26.3"
Width : 8.5"
Wheel : 17" x 6-7.5"
Sidewall : 4.7"
Circum. : 82.6"
Revs/Mile : 767

63360 in / mile. / 82.6 = 767.07 spins to go one mile so to go 100 miles in one hour 76707 revolutions of the tire / 60 min = 1278.45 revolutions of the tire * 8.206 = 10491 rpm. I'm guessing the Tesla numbers are in the general neighborhood.
At some point you are going to run out of voltage (if not wheels) ...

Or is this using "field weakening" (i.e. the voltage stays constant above a given speed) ?
 
Engineering, Tesla's motor is up to 23308. With that as a topline 12K does not seem way out there for a mainstream electric. With the ridiculous torque there is no point in gearing it, as long as the batteries can give you the amps to run the motor at max torque.
 
Engineering, Tesla's motor is up to 23308. With that as a topline 12K does not seem way out there for a mainstream electric. With the ridiculous torque there is no point in gearing it, as long as the batteries can give you the amps to run the motor at max torque.
And if they cannot, then you need the gearbox and more volts. But then you might hit other limits (insulation, power stack mosfet voltage rating, filter components rating, etc).

And if you need another battery in series to get more volts you might as well put it in parallel for more amps and save the gearbox, agreed.
 
Engineering, Tesla's motor is up to 23308. With that as a topline 12K does not seem way out there for a mainstream electric. With the ridiculous torque there is no point in gearing it, as long as the batteries can give you the amps to run the motor at max torque.
And gearing wont have effect on amps needed from battery, only how much the inverter has to handle. Model S Plaid pushing 2000 amps to motors from standstill requires only a small fraction of that current from batteries.
 
And gearing wont have effect on amps needed from battery, only how much the inverter has to handle. Model S Plaid pushing 2000 amps to motors from standstill requires only a small fraction of that current from batteries.
Are you trying to say we got free watts from somewhere in the ether? Or it's like <1v @ 2000a for a fraction of a second while the motor spins up or what? Voltage is push, Amps are pull. Are you saying the model S motors are pulling 2000a? That doesn't sound right, I would be thinking a conductor somewhere would be a flashbulb. Feel free to educate.
 
Are you trying to say we got free watts from somewhere in the ether? Or it's like <1v @ 2000a for a fraction of a second while the motor spins up or what? Voltage is push, Amps are pull. Are you saying the model S motors are pulling 2000a? That doesn't sound right, I would be thinking a conductor somewhere would be a flashbulb. Feel free to educate.
It's called duty cycle of inverter.

Speed is almost zero, so power from batter and to motors is quite spall overall.

Pmotor = 3 * UPhaseNeutral * Iphase * cosphi

Iphase is very big (max torque) but UPhaseNeutral is quite small.

Excluding losses
Pbat = Ubat * Ibat

This excluding losses again you get yhe power balance between motor and battery
Ibat = (3*UphaseNeutral*cosphi/UDC) * Iphase

Where the first term is the small term as @MattiFin suggested. This a small fraction of the amps required by the motor.


Your max power is only going to be at the peak of your acceleration cycle (max torque And max speed), then it's going to reduce to (max speed, friction compensating torque to keep constant speed).

EDIT: the easiest to understand this principle is a DC motor. In that case, across the motor terminals (output of your power converter) you have:
UDC(t) = Rwinding*IDC(t) + Lwinding*dIDC/dt(t) + UEMF(n(t))


Where UEMF(n(t)) is the motor EMF (or generator back-EMF) depending on the speed "n" it's turning at.


You *could* apply full voltage for a few milliseconds at the very start:
UDC(0) = 0 + Lwinding*dIDC(t)/dt (0) + 0

Or integrating (assuming linear increase of current)
IDC(t) = 1/Lwinding * UDC(0) * t

But given you have maybe 1-10mH or so, in a few milliseconds you will have reached your target current.

Say you apply 1000V just to make it easy for the calculations and your maximum current is 100A. Lwinding is 10mH. Then
100A = 1/(10mH) * 1000V * t -> t = 100A/1000V * 10mH = 0.1A/V * 0.01s = 0.001s = 1ms

And if you let the voltage that high you will hit your overcurrent protection (and if not, things are going to break).

Similar considerations can be made for AC motors, where on top of the voltage-speed characteristic you will have a electrical frequency-mechanical rotational speed characteristic and of course you have power factor, over modulation, third harmonic injection, and and and :rolleyes: .

EDIT 2: so at the very start, Uphase (or UDC) is simply Uphase = Rwinding*Iphase where your Iphase is the required torque to hold the standstill. Best example of this are cars/trains on a slope. Your torque is the torque required to NOT fall back the slope. Your current = f(torque) will determine the R*I steady-state voltage at standstill (zero-speed). But realistically, this is very low. Otherwise R*I^2 (winding losses) would be huge in your motor and your acceleration would suffer most likely anyways (low current, or need very high voltage to "push" the required current).
 
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Are you saying the model S motors are pulling 2000a? That doesn't sound right, I would be thinking a conductor somewhere would be a flashbulb. Feel free to educate.
Yes, over 2000A from the battery and separate between 3 motors.
It need that to achieve 1020 HP at 400V.
 
Yes, over 2000A from the battery and separate between 3 motors.
It need that to achieve 1020 HP at 400V.
But for how long is also the question ... Are we talking "simple" acceleration (< 10s) or pulling a 3.5 ton trailer on an incline for 200km or the likes (> 1 h) ?
 
But for how long is also the question ...
Of course it's only for few seconds. Anyway this car reach 200 km/h after 6 seconds :unsure:😝
After all it's still a comfortable 5 places sedan super useful to go to the grocery store with family.
And after the 2000A discharge for brutal acceleration it can cruise at highway speed with 50A... nuts!
 
The model s plaid has three motors one up front and one for each rear wheel.
But for how long is also the question ... Are we talking "simple" acceleration (< 10s) or pulling a 3.5 ton trailer on an incline for 200km or the likes (> 1 h) ?
It's good for the time it takes to get to 200 mph apparently, with full power after around 60mph (2 seconds):

powercurve (1).jpg

 
Of course it's only for few seconds. Anyway this car reach 200 km/h after 6 seconds :unsure:😝
After all it's still a comfortable 5 places sedan super useful to go to the grocery store with family.
And after the 2000A discharge for brutal acceleration it can cruise at highway speed with 50A... nuts!
Well I wouldn't call that exceptional.

The high current at startup is something that is/was also quite common with every synchronous or asynchronous/induction motor. The latter at least until the EU put legislation in place to make the use of soft starter mandatory. I think it was a factor around 5-10x the ratio over startup / rated current. Anyways, short term overload at startup is nothing exceptional (although here the ratio is indeed bigger).

The low current at cruise is more dependent on aereodynamics etc. You only need to compensate for the mechanical friction (losses) at steady-statee (cruise) speed.
 
What's interesting is it will take a full 250kW of charge during the initial 30% or so, tho I think there's some other vehicles that are faster:

img-tesla-model-s-plaid-21-2021-kyle-dcfc-power-20211121.pngimg-tesla-model-s-plaid-21-2021-kyle-dcfc-soc-time-20211121.png
 
I'm not going to pick a technical fight with Silverstone, that I do know 🤣🧠
I'm NOT a drive/motor expert, mainly a Power Converter one. But I clearly remember some courses in university and tests in the lab. If you just connect 400 VAC on it, it will have a huge current spike 🤣 .
 
What's interesting is it will take a full 250kW of charge during the initial 30% or so, tho I think there's some other vehicles that are faster:

View attachment 200176View attachment 200177
Could be a thermal limit that it needs to reduce power (current) after the initial 30%.

Or (not sure if they have an additional DC-DC converter) as the voltage goes up, the INPUT current (of the intermediary DCDC converter) becomes the limiting factor. Or the power of the DCDC (or the socket plug even !).

Basically Ubat x Ibat = UDCDC x IDCDC (+ losses) so as Ubat rises, if you want to keep the same Ibat, you'd also need to increase IDCDC.

So after a while maybe they change from Constant Power to Constant Current (CC) ?
 
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