LifePO4 Cells Made in USA!

[Fish Freak]

I heard from a friend that he bought pre-made drop in Lithium batteries, and they claimed their cells were MADE IN THE USA! I'll find out in a sec what brand they are, but he was adamant that was the case. Edit: the company is called Lithium Battery Power. Pretty generic name but big website.

Anyhow, I was just wondering, does anyone know of a USA LifePO4 cell manufacturer? With these sky high China shipping costs, might make a good case for buying domestic IF it's not a Unicorn...?

 

[SV Third Day]

doubtful...more likely Assembled in the USA with cells made in China. But what's wrong with that really? They can do it cheaper so......

 

[Fish Freak]

doubtful...more likely Assembled in the USA with cells made in China. But what's wrong with that really? They can do it cheaper so......

Exactly what I was thinking SV, 'assembled in USA with China parts'. What's wrong with China? Lol, I won't go there politically.

I'll admit, I am one of those "USA, USA, USA!!" kinda guys, however, I drive a GMC Duramax diesel truck, work on it myself, and it's what an Izuzu mfg engine, full of metric AND SAE nuts and bolts, and it's just annoying to work on. Lol, another of my cars is European and I love it. So much for USA. But you've seen the SKY HIGH shipping costs due to COVID from the Orient right now right? I'm not making a huge order so it really factors in...

 

[SV Third Day]

But you've seen the SKY HIGH shipping costs due to COVID from the Orient right now right? I'm not making a huge order so it really factors in...

It's true shipping isn't cheap...
I just ordered 20 of the 280AH cells from China and my shipping was $640 to California.....
But even with the shipping it was tons cheaper than buying one of the off the shelf and ready drop in units from Battle Born for example.

 

[Sojourner1]

From their history page..

HISTORY
Lithium Battery Power LLC is a veteran owned and operated company with over thirty years of combined experience in the lithium battery manufacturing world. Founded in March 2018 by Bruce Dandrew, LBP proudly assembles all batteries in a Clearwater, Florida based warehouse and ships to tech savvy energy consumers around the globe. For years our team has worked as one of the top tier battery suppliers for motorsports teams in IndyCar, NASCAR, Formula1, DTM, V8 Supercar, Formula Drift and World Rallycross - just to name a few.

 

[Fish Freak]

From their history page..
HISTORY
Lithium Battery Power ...proudly assembles all batteries in a Clearwater, Florida based warehouse...

No surprise at all, and thank you for real Sojourner1 for doing my homework for me, however, my search will continue !! Are these chemicals so restricted that only China can pull off manufacturing?

 

[Forbisher]

I heard from a friend that he bought pre-made drop in Lithium batteries, and they claimed their cells were MADE IN THE USA! I'll find out in a sec what brand they are, but he was adamant that was the case. Edit: the company is called Lithium Battery Power. Pretty generic name but big website.

Anyhow, I was just wondering, does anyone know of a USA LifePO4 cell manufacturer? With these sky high China shipping costs, might make a good case for buying domestic IF it's not a Unicorn...?

There are no LFP batteries Made in the USA. That battery company you link to does not claim to sell made in USA batteries that I can see and only been around since 2018.
Their 100Ah is $1033 shipped to CA compared to Battle Born at $950 shipped.

Battle Born claims Assembled and Designed in the USA right on the battery label.
I bought a $835 Battle Born on sale last year and see no compelling reason to buy from the company you link to.

 

[Sojourner1]

I believe they're all made over there. Wild west, no standards, no rules, have hut will produce.

 

[Fish Freak]

There are no LFP batteries Made in the USA. That battery company you link to does not claim to sell made in USA batteries that I can see and only been around since 2018.
Their 100Ah is $1033 shipped to CA compared to Battle Born at $950 shipped.

Battle Born claims Assembled and Designed in the USA right on the battery label.
I bought a $835 Battle Born on sale last year and see no compelling reason to buy from the company you link to.

@Sojourner1 confirmed same thing MBR, and honestly, I was NOT trying to get ANYONE to buy LBP batteries, nor any pre-made battery. Zero compelling reason for me to buy pre-made, for even BB or Ionic with their bluetooth 'read only' app.

This DIY forum and Will has convinced me that it's far easier and cheaper to source parts and make it yourself, and make it better. I can also FIX it myself too, that's what I really enjoy...

 

[Fish Freak]

It's true shipping isn't cheap...
I just ordered 20 of the 280AH cells from China and my shipping was $640 to California.....
But even with the shipping it was tons cheaper than buying one of the off the shelf and ready drop in units from Battle Born for example.

Was that $640 for AIR freight or 30-40 day sea shipping? Exactly, I'm doing the math, China still makes most economic sense, even though the smaller cells I'm buying for marine use are only $43, and by my qty shipping is $41.79 per cell ?!

I was hoping as the weeks go by that air freight would come down as air travel picked up, but it isnt changing much. Lol probably the day I hit 'Order' is the day air freight drops...

 

[SV Third Day]

Was that $640 for AIR freight or 30-40 day sea shipping? Exactly, I'm doing the math, China still makes most economic sense, even though the smaller cells I'm buying for marine use are only $43, and by my qty shipping is $41.79 per cell ?!

I was hoping as the weeks go by that air freight would come down as air travel picked up, but it isnt changing much. Lol probably the day I hit 'Order' is the day air freight drops...

Sea Freight then delivered to my San Diego, Cali address.
So the total price:
20 cells:
Product price + freight = $330*5+$635= $2285.
Add in a $115 120A 4s Bluetooth BMS from Amazon like Will recommends and that is $572 for a 280AH ready to go battery. Where else can you even get close to that in cost??

 

[Steve_S]

Be Very CAUTIOUS !
Many have been caught off-guard because they did not pay close attention.
MADE in USA = All parts & components are Made within the US.
ASSEMBLED in USA = Parts could come from anywhere but the whole thing is assembled in a US shop.

Battle Born for example is NOT an OEM (Original Equipment Manufacturer) as they themselves do not make anything. They have their own specifications and buy products that meet their specs. They may have designed / engineered components like the battery box, BMS and so on and most of it, if not all of it is likely made offshore. The whole assemblage of parts is assembled & tested in the US Factory and they warranty their work and the components they used. Of course there is a healthy markup for profit & warranty coverage costs if they arise and we know they do stand behind their product.

At this time I am unaware of any LifePo4 Manufacturer in the USA. There are battery factories being built but they are geared towards automotive primarily & energy storage cells but these will not be producing anything till 2021 at the earliest. ALSO AN IMPORTANT NOTE on the New Generation of Auto-Cells coming as well... They are NOT going to be what we see today as the sector is turning a corner. The new BYD Blade Cells, the CATL "CTP" (Cell-To-Pack), the new GM Ultium (Cel to Pack format) and even the new Tesla Packs (that Tesla will be producing) will be very different and changes that game up somewhat. I know that CATL had pondered a Factory in the US but they went to friendlier neighbourhoods (Europe). Ironically, LFP is one of the easiest and least intensive to produce at this time and it does not need cobalt either to perform and the raw minerals resources are available but untapped to any large degree in North America. CATL was tossing about the idea of an Australian Operation at one point as OZ has everything in spades but it's regressive hostile government has kept that interest low. Too bad too as they chased away two EV Maker's who wanted to startup there... The Holden factories sit empty & decaying...

 

[electric]

It's a vicious circle:
- consumers want to support local manufacturing
- local government is hostile to local manufacturers
- few local manufacturers who survive can't compete with cheap offshore labor
- consumers shop around and buy cheap offshore product
- consumers complain there are no local jobs due to all jobs going offshore

How do we break out of this loop?

 

[Ampster]

Screw China after the China Virus.

I now understand your icon better and see where you are coming from. I don't know of much Lithium battery manufacturing capacity in the USA except for Tesla Gigafactory in Nevada. As others have said there is not LFP production because Tesla uses NMC. Maybe Samsung and LG from Korea, but their is no assurance they do not have plants in China. I don't know if they make LFP either.
I am glad that you can be flexible, but did you know you just transitioned from the only Lithium battery made in the USA to one that is made in China?

 

[Ampster]

They are NOT going to be what we see today as the sector is turning a corner. The new BYD Blade Cells, the CATL "CTP" (Cell-To-Pack), the new GM Ultium (Cel to Pack format) and even the new Tesla Packs (that Tesla will be producing) will be very different and changes that game up somewhat.

That could for us DIYers, be different options. The only hope is the overall manufacturing capacity of Lithium cells will go up. Since the common denominator is the pouch cell maybe the result will be that some of those may trickle into commodity prices for prismatics for us DIYers. Does it really make a difference if some fabricator puts together CATL or EVE pouches to sell a prismatic that he says is a CATL or EVE as long as he assembles them in a quality certified factory?

Someone here speculated that the recent availability of large format prismatics in the market was because the auto manufactures shut down production and a lot of excess inventory hit the market.

 

[Ampster]

Shhhhhhhhh...........

Blinded by the Light?

 

[Fish Freak]

Be Very CAUTIOUS !
...ALSO AN IMPORTANT NOTE on the New Generation of Auto-Cells coming as well... They are NOT going to be what we see today as the sector is turning a corner. The new BYD Blade Cells, the CATL "CTP" (Cell-To-Pack), the new GM Ultium (Cel to Pack format) and even the new Tesla Packs (that Tesla will be producing) will be very different and changes that game up somewhat.

Steve are you talking about the rumored 'million mile Tesla batteries' I've heard about in the media? The press makes it sound like incredible new storage tech that will make everything else obsolete? I'm sure that tech is different than what we use and need because they need super high discharge rates for 800 hp e-cars right?

 

[VersaGreen]

Update to this - since Dec 2020, there were plans progressing to have by Q2 2021 (now) LFP cells MADE IN THE USA: at a former Denalian Energy Systems facility in Henderson, Nevada, by Lithium Group - a spinoff from Lithium Werks, the Houston/Netherlands company that used to own the Valence brand & invented nanophosphate to improve LFP performance.

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Or perhaps it's K2 Energy: https://k2battery.com/product-category/energy-cells/