LiFeYPO Cold environment batteries

[SolarQueen]

Glad to see this thread, gives me some more areas to research for my cold weather battery plans. I've been thinking of going with the Relion-LT battery, but one draw back is that it can't be wired in series (only in parallel) so you're stuck with a 12V system. Would be great to find a battery that will heat itself and accept a charge below freezing that was 24V or higher or could be wired in series.

You described KiloVault CHLX, Wire up to 4 in series for 24V or 48V.

 

[rootusrootus]

You described KiloVault CHLX, Wire up to 4 in series for 24V or 48V.

And battle born

 

[AlaskanNoob]

And battle born

I'm not yet familiar with KiloVault, but the Battle Born batteries are natively heated I think (not self heating). I'm pretty sure you have to physically flip a switch to heat the batteries and flip a switch to turn the heat off. Unlike Relion where the battery does it automatically as required so long as the charge controller is providing it juice.

I will definitely look into the KiloVault because if it heats automatically and can be wired in series, that's going to be a huge benefit for my application.

 

[rootusrootus]

I'm not yet familiar with KiloVault, but the Battle Born batteries are natively heated I think (not self heating). I'm pretty sure you have to physically flip a switch to heat the batteries and flip a switch to turn the heat off. Unlike Relion where the battery does it automatically as required so long as the charge controller is providing it juice.

I will definitely look into the KiloVault because if it heats automatically and can be wired in series, that's going to be a huge benefit for my application.

Battle Born says it comes on automatically at 35F. There is a switch, but it just enables and disables the heating system, the actual operation of the element is based on temperature.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

Battle Born says it comes on automatically at 35F. There is a switch, but it just enables and disables the heating system, the actual operation of the element is based on temperature.

A couple weeks ago I contacted Battle Born and asked them:

"Message: Do your heated lithium batteries simply heat themselves when the switch is turned on, and not heat themselves when the switch is turned off? They require user input to heat or not? Or do they automatically heat themselves like the Relion LT batteries do? Can the heat on/off switch be wired into a charge controller so that it can turn them on and off? Many thanks for any information you can provide on this."

And they responded:

"Thanks for the email. Our heated batteries do just heat themselves when turned on. It will come with a on/off switch to activate and deactivate. Not sure what you mean about connect to the charge controller."

 

[AlaskanNoob]

You described KiloVault CHLX, Wire up to 4 in series for 24V or 48V.

These batteries do appear to fit the bill. Thank you for making them known to me!

Cold-Rated Lithium Solar Battery - 12V, 1.8kWh (CHLX3600)

Deep-cycle lithium-ion solar battery with internal heating film. A 3.6kWh cold-rated lithium solar battery you can use in sub-freezing ambient temperatures.

realgoods.com

 

[rootusrootus]

A couple weeks ago I contacted Battle Born and asked them:

"Message: Do your heated lithium batteries simply heat themselves when the switch is turned on, and not heat themselves when the switch is turned off? They require user input to heat or not? Or do they automatically heat themselves like the Relion LT batteries do? Can the heat on/off switch be wired into a charge controller so that it can turn them on and off? Many thanks for any information you can provide on this."

And they responded:

"Thanks for the email. Our heated batteries do just heat themselves when turned on. It will come with a on/off switch to activate and deactivate. Not sure what you mean about connect to the charge controller."

Heated 100Ah 12V Battery

Think lithium batteries can't perform in colder temperatures? Think again. Check out our newest internally heated 105Ah 12V lithium battery.

battlebornbatteries.com

"With our new internally heated battery, you no longer have to stress about your cold temperature outings! When the battery reaches an internal temperature of 35 degrees F, a flip switches and warms your battery up!"

Heat Pad for BBGC2

Click here to read more about this heat pad that provides uniform heat and is sized perfectly for our Battle Born GC2 batteries.

battlebornbatteries.com

"Included with the heat pad is a temperature switch that turns the pad on when the temperature falls below 35 degrees Fahrenheit or 1.6 degrees Celsius, and stays on until the temperature rises above 45 degrees Fahrenheit or 7 degrees Celsius. This ensures that the heat pad is only on when needed."

They talk about their heating system in a number of places. A manual switch enables/disables the automatic heating, which is then controlled by temperature.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

Heated 100Ah 12V Battery

Think lithium batteries can't perform in colder temperatures? Think again. Check out our newest internally heated 105Ah 12V lithium battery.

battlebornbatteries.com

"With our new internally heated battery, you no longer have to stress about your cold temperature outings! When the battery reaches an internal temperature of 35 degrees F, a flip switches and warms your battery up!"

Heat Pad for BBGC2

Click here to read more about this heat pad that provides uniform heat and is sized perfectly for our Battle Born GC2 batteries.

battlebornbatteries.com

"Included with the heat pad is a temperature switch that turns the pad on when the temperature falls below 35 degrees Fahrenheit or 1.6 degrees Celsius, and stays on until the temperature rises above 45 degrees Fahrenheit or 7 degrees Celsius. This ensures that the heat pad is only on when needed."

They talk about their heating system in a number of places. A manual switch enables/disables the automatic heating, which is then controlled by temperature.

Interesting. Maybe their support guy just didn't know the capability of the battery?

 

[AlaskanNoob]

One question I need to find out about the KiloVault battery concerns its 150amp max charge/discharge current. If I have two of those batteries wired in series does that double so that 300amp can go into the bank (split up between the two batteries)? I would assume yes but I'm not sure.

 

[rootusrootus]

Interesting. Maybe their support guy just didn't know the capability of the battery?

I'm guessing he just misunderstood what you were asking. His answer was technically correct, in a simplified way. You enable/disable the system with a switch. From his perspective, 'activate' means enabling the heating system, not literally turning on the element.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

I'm guessing he just misunderstood what you were asking. His answer was technically correct, in a simplified way. You enable/disable the system with a switch. From his perspective, 'activate' means enabling the heating system, not literally turning on the element.

Perhaps, but I think the question was pretty clear. It's possible that you have to turn the switch to "heat" and when that switch is on, the battery does NOT heat until the temp drops to 35F, and then stops heating when the temp of the battery is above 35F. But what use would that switch be in that case? You could be right though and are probably right.

It's also possible that despite what the website says, the batteries don't actually self heat.

 

[rootusrootus]

Agreed, it could be that the documentation on the web site is wrong and there was no misunderstanding.

But on the other hand, I'd have to weigh the likelihood that the documentation is oddly specific but wrong about the 35F to 45F temperature range against the possibility that either the tech misunderstood your question, or you misunderstood his answer . Because he does say the batteries just heat themselves when turned on. That's exactly right. You turn on the switch, and the rest is automatic. IMO his answer agrees with the docs.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

Agreed, it could be that the documentation on the web site is wrong and there was no misunderstanding.

But on the other hand, I'd have to weigh the likelihood that the documentation is oddly specific but wrong about the 35F to 45F temperature range against the possibility that either the tech misunderstood your question, or you misunderstood his answer . Because he does say the batteries just heat themselves when turned on. That's exactly right. You turn on the switch, and the rest is automatic. IMO his answer agrees with the docs.

The other question is, assuming your understanding of how the battery operates is correct, if you have the switch to ON and it's 60F outside, but it drops down to 30F do the heaters come on and power themselves from the juice in the battery? Or do they only heat if it's 35F and below AND there is current coming in from the charge controller (or generator)?

It wouldn't be helpful to have a battery heating itself and depleting itself if no current is coming in to charge it (say in the middle of the night).

 

[AlaskanNoob]

I asked Battle Born and they said:

"No the heaters will only engage when the battery drops below 30 degrees F but there would be a very low draw with the switch turned on all the time."

 

[wholybee]

One question I need to find out about the KiloVault battery concerns its 150amp max charge/discharge current. If I have two of those batteries wired in series does that double so that 300amp can go into the bank (split up between the two batteries)? I would assume yes but I'm not sure.

No. If wired in series, the current is not split between the batteries, and you will have the same 150A limit. If wired in parallel, then the current is split and you could go to 300A.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

That's great to know, thank you!

 

[SolarQueen]

One question I need to find out about the KiloVault battery concerns its 150amp max charge/discharge current. If I have two of those batteries wired in series does that double so that 300amp can go into the bank (split up between the two batteries)? I would assume yes but I'm not sure.

If you have 2 batteries wired in Parallel, you can double the current. In series it remains 150A.

 

[SolarQueen]

I'm not yet familiar with KiloVault, but the Battle Born batteries are natively heated I think (not self heating). I'm pretty sure you have to physically flip a switch to heat the batteries and flip a switch to turn the heat off. Unlike Relion where the battery does it automatically as required so long as the charge controller is providing it juice.

I will definitely look into the KiloVault because if it heats automatically and can be wired in series, that's going to be a huge benefit for my application.

KiloVault automatically redirects the charging current to the heater when it is cold, and then switches it back over to charge the battery when warm enough. You can also see a video of me running the test at

. If you want to skip ahead, it turns on the charging at 5:18.

 

[MisterSandals]

You can also see a video of me running the test

OMG, chopped kale?

+1 on the sausage and egg croissant though.

 

[AlaskanNoob]

KiloVault automatically redirects the charging current to the heater when it is cold, and then switches it back over to charge the battery when warm enough. You can also see a video of me running the test at

. If you want to skip ahead, it turns on the charging at 5:18.

Very helpful video, thanks!