List of Tier-1 inverters?

[Jamie.sanders]

Yeah I realize the EMP-hardening buzz word is for giving people more peace of mind (perhaps a lot to justify burning more money and give the warm-fuzzies). As I said, most of our co-op shareholders like the idea of having that peace of mind built into their setups. I wasn't really sold on that methodology though, since those inverters cost so much for one (and single point of failure if you only have one), they could still blowout due to some 'normal' failure and they wouldn't be able to quickly get a spare for replacement, and be back up and running swiftly.

I just went with MPP (pair of them, for a little extra redundancy at least on the 120v side of things) as I think it's a good solid 'cheap' inverter setup, made in Taiwan, but reputable manufacturer, haven't really heard about failures on them as far as I know.

I was thinking about also getting a couple of Growatts with the auto-transformer for the shop, just to have more 'spares' sitting around. Might even get an inverter just to keep in the faraday container if I thought it was that big of deal and I had some extra cash laying around someday. Or if I upgrade to some other inverters later, can keep a decomm'd pair as more spares.

One of my strategies for potential EMP hardening is just to try and run as much stuff off raw DC power as I can like lighting, motors, etc, try not to use the inverter for much if anything, have spare parts like extra BMSs and other parts like bulbs and motors, that are cheaper cost, sitting in my faraday container, keep a bunch of candles around in case that doesn't work for some reason.

If the parts are cheap price, then I can afford to have more spares lying around. Which is good for when you have a sudden 'normal' failure on Christmas Eve say, then you can go dig around in your faraday box parts bin and find something to get back into operation quickly, then go order the permanent replacement when you can. Or even to help a neighbor if they have a blowout.

It's the same reason why I have 8 older vehicles (instead of one new one), so if one gets a problem, I just take it out of the loop, use other vehicles while I'm fixing that one comfortably at my leisure. I also keep two extra spare iPhone SEs laying around, even restored with my backup image on them, so if mine decides to puke out (which has happened before on a few occasions), then I can swap the SIM and back up in 5 minutes, and figure out fixing the broken one later. I keep spare laptop, spare tools, pretty much spare everything on necessities.

For me, redundancy gives me the warm-fuzzies (no single point of failure) hehe...

Exactly, what I’m asking about is only 1/2 my system, I am running dual everything, so if an inverter or charge controller crashes my 6,000 watt system is still a 3,000 watt system which will still meet my requirements with a little tweaking.

 

[robby]

The problem is that when a lightening strike blows the EMP protection in the Sol-Ark, you're going to pay an arm and a leg to have it fixed..

If you install your own whole house surge protector, then you can fix it yourself...

Just saying...

So are you saying the Eaton unit on my mains is not going to provide enough protection?

A month or so after that lightning strike I asked Sol-Ark about it and they said that the EMP protection board is a cheap replacement or he said it could be modules. He was not in Tech support but in sales and was not sure what the part is but he said that if they get hit they send out a new Board/Module that the user can install and that will fix the problem. I assume they are MOV and that maybe they plug into sockets or maybe its a separate board with MOV's.
In any case I have repaired a lot of items that have been hit by lightning and in the consumer market there is no guarantee as to the level of damage it will do. A direct strike right on the poll next to your house is almost certainly going to be really bad news.

 

[MurphyGuy]

So are you saying the Eaton unit on my mains is not going to provide enough protection?

Eaton is a good enough unit for most surges..

When I researched all this, I had spent quite a bit of time looking up the specs and calling the engineers when I couldn't find the specs online.

I also consulted (email exchanges) with Dr. Arthur T. Bradley who works for NASA and is also a prepper like myself.

What I found was a range of decent whole house surge protectors. Eaton, SquareD, GE, Siemens, Leviton, etc... With the exception of the Siemens, all their specs were pretty much the same with only minor differences, and of course the obvious differences like how much current they could sink before smoking.

Most of them, with the exception of the Siemens unit, had a 50 to 100 nanosecond response time.. That's plenty fast enough for any lightening strike.. but the rise time of a nuclear EMP is actually a bit quicker than that..

The Siemens FS series units have a 1 (one) nanosecond response.. but they are also twice as expensive.. almost 3 times in some cases.

The take away is that they will all help protect you from a lightening strike or the far more common utility spikes from other sources. But if you want something that can handle the conductive component of a nuclear EMP, I'm not so sure 50 to 100 nanoseconds is fast enough.. but its better than nothing.

A month or so after that lightning strike I asked Sol-Ark about it and they said that the EMP protection board is a cheap replacement or he said it could be modules. He was not in Tech support but in sales and was not sure what the part is but he said that if they get hit they send out a new Board/Module that the user can install and that will fix the problem. I assume they are MOV and that maybe they plug into sockets or maybe its a separate board with MOV's.
In any case I have repaired a lot of items that have been hit by lightning and in the consumer market there is no guarantee as to the level of damage it will do. A direct strike right on the poll next to your house is almost certainly going to be really bad news.

If its a cheap replacement, I would suggest you ask him for the replacement components and the associated instructions to install them.. This way, you have a spare set. I would also suggest you ask them for the specifications.. response time, current capabilities, etc.

Having a whole house surge protector, AND an auxiliary unit in the Sol-Ark is doubling up, and that sure isn't going to hurt you.. If I could afford the price tag, I'd add a couple more myself.

 

[Ampster]

What do you consider Tier-1?

If it is on the California Energy Comission site I would start there. Then I would look at features and my requirements to decide. I don't care what or how Tier-1 is defined.

 

[robby]

Eaton is a good enough unit for most surges..

Thanks that's good to know as I did Zero research and just went on the Electricians advice after a phone call.

If its a cheap replacement, I would suggest you ask him for the replacement components and the associated instructions to install them.. This way, you have a spare set. I would also suggest you ask them for the specifications.. response time, current capabilities, etc.

Hmmm. That's probably a good idea. I wonder what his definition of cheap is?
If it's just some MOV's on a board it should be under $100.

Having a whole house surge protector, AND an auxiliary unit in the Sol-Ark is doubling up, and that sure isn't going to hurt you.. If I could afford the price tag, I'd add a couple more myself.

My house is pretty well grounded because I have a huge Ham Radio Yagi Antenna on a 38ft pole. So even before I got Solar I had 5 Ten foot ground rods bonded together from the Antenna and going around the house and to the Utility Ground. During the Solar Installation I put in two 8ft Rods. The Electrical one for the Inverter is bonded to the other five Rods and the Main Panel box but it was baffling that the Electrician refused to let me keep the seventh one for the Solar Panels bonded to the others. He removed the cable and said the PV panels had to be grounded separately.

 

[MurphyGuy]

Thanks that's good to know as I did Zero research and just went on the Electricians advice after a phone call.


Hmmm. That's probably a good idea. I wonder what his definition of cheap is?
If it's just a some MOV's on a board it should be under $100.

My house is pretty well grounded because I have a huge Ham Radio Yagi Antenna on a 38ft pole. So even before I got Solar I had 5 Ten foot ground rods bonded together from the Antenna and going around the house and to the Utility Ground. During the Solar Installation I put in two 8ft Rods. The Electrical one for the Inverter is bonded to the other five Rods and the Main Panel box but it was baffling that the Electrician refused to let me keep the seventh one for the Solar Panels bonded to the others. He removed the cable and said the PV panels had to be grounded separately.

Hmm. That sounds suspicious.. but maybe not depending on the physical configuration.

Your home should have only 1 Primary ground point.. all other earth rods should be considered auxiliary. If you put 5 rods around your antenna and bond them together, a wire should be run back to that 1 Primary ground.

If you then install a solar system and put earth grounds there as well, those should also be run back to the 1 Primary ground point.

It should look like a fireworks star burst if drawn out.. One center primary, all the others go back to it.

If your electrician didn't bond your solar back to your house, then something is suspicious.

That said, I do think its possible to install an isolated ground rod on a solar system and NOT bond it back to the Primary.. Technically, you could install 100 of them and it wouldn't matter, but at least 1 needs to go back to the home.

Failure to adhere to the "star" configuration means you could potentially have different voltages, which would result in undesirable current flow in places you don't want current flowing.

 

[robby]

Hmm. That sounds suspicious.. but maybe not depending on the physical configuration.

Your home should have only 1 Primary ground point.. all other earth rods should be considered auxiliary. If you put 5 rods around your antenna and bond them together, a wire should be run back to that 1 Primary ground.

If you then install a solar system and put earth grounds there as well, those should also be run back to the 1 Primary ground point.

It should look like a fireworks star burst if drawn out.. One center primary, all the others go back to it.

The rods go around the perimeter of the house with two near to the antenna pole and the others fanning around at each corner until they bond to the utility box. Everything in the radio shack has chassis ground wires that also tie in. If I get a strike everything will rise up equally with no ground loop.
The panel array is the only isolated ground from the rest. I have some ideas on why he demanded it be sperate but it goes against normal procedures as I also believe it could caused a ground loop.

If your electrician didn't bond your solar back to your house, then something is suspicious.

That said, I do think its possible to install an isolated ground rod on a solar system and NOT bond it back to the Primary.. Technically, you could install 100 of them and it wouldn't matter, but at least 1 needs to go back to the home.

Failure to adhere to the "star" configuration means you could potentially have different voltages, which would result in undesirable current flow in places you don't want current flowing.

 

[Steve_S]

Interesting the Subject is TIER-1 Products and EMP is being talked about.
Solar EMP handling is not insane and should always be a consideration.
Nuclear EMP: You will have bigger issues to be concerned with and your solar gear likely won't be that high up... Seriously, give head a shake. For the real chicken littles, then wrap your shack in copper mesh & ground it out to be a Faraday Cage too and don't forget everything else then too...

Grounding Panel Racks & Frames is NOT for electricity but for Lightning Control. Also if the AC Ground takes a zap from the system and passes it to solar frames & racking that could be very dangerous quickly and also result in damage. Metal framing etc hanging out in the middle of the field or on your roof can & will attract lightning...

 

[robby]

Interesting the Subject is TIER-1 Products and EMP is being talked about.
Solar EMP handling is not insane and should always be a consideration.

Yes that’s true but the good thing is that today we would have plenty of warning time before one hit.
All my stuff would be disconnected and my house powered down during impact.

Nuclear EMP: You will have bigger issues to be concerned with and your solar gear likely won't be that high up..

100% Agree.

. Seriously, give head a shake. For the real chicken littles, then wrap your shack in copper mesh & ground it out to be a Faraday Cage too and don't forget everything else then too...

Grounding Panel Racks & Frames is NOT for electricity but for Lightning Control. Also if the AC Ground takes a zap from the system and passes it to solar frames & racking that could be very dangerous quickly and also result in damage. Metal framing etc hanging out in the middle of the field or on your roof can & will attract lightning...

If your in an area prone to lightning you look at things differently. I have had lightning strike 10ft away from me twice! Both times I could see the glow and hear a crackling sound just a split second before the big boom. After that you take it very seriously.

 

[Nobodybusiness]

Yup , he did a deep well pump Installation that really helped me out , I must of watched it 40 times over 2 years
the pump ,wire , pipe and nick knacks cost a Fortune and all the guys in my area wanted a second fortune and my first Born son to install it .
I finely sourced all the material in August and dropped the pump down to 700’ and it went smooth it took 3 hours
I really don’t know why they want so much to do the job ?

As the saying goes” $1 for the screw and $9999 for knowing where it goes and how much to tighten it”
It’s all about knowing how.
Once you get that you will never have anyone install anything for you again.

 

[Steve_S]

I waited and noone mentioned it. Tier-1 Products such as Victron, Midnite, Samlex, Schenider, ABB and such are ALL UL/CSA/ETL (and variants) certified. This is a Costly Process and has to be done for each certification, Value Grear rarely if ever has these. Tier-2 products may have some of these certifications OR may only have selected models for selected markets (US or EU or ??).

There are actually MANY Tier-1 Products / Brands on the market but NOT ALL ARE AVAILABLE EVERYWHERE ! and Sorry to our American Members but a LOT is NOT available in US, you just have to deal with that, a few companies refuse to even touch the North American Market at all.

Another UN-Mentioned thing that should have Popped up !
Efficiency ! YES that's Right the efficiency of an Inverter can result in all sorts of miscalculations.
Example, I have a spare Yiyen APC3024 Inverter Charger, a Value Grade Low Frequency device & pretty respectable for a Value Gear but it is 84-86% Efficient and states Nominal Efficiency >88%(Peak). While my Samlex EVO-4024 is 94% Efficient.
*NB* Yiyen IS an OEM that rebrands / relabels for MANY Vendors just like Sigineer OEM Site who is another Large OEM (they make the AIMS products)

Another Detail Point: Tier-1 products will offer ATS (Auto-Transfer-Switch) capabilities, most often built in to allow switching between Input Sources such as Grid/Gen AC Input. Lesser Grades this is an Add-on. AGS (Auto-Gen-Start) control / access is available but that connects to an External GSCM (Generator Start Control Module) between the Inverter/Charger & Generator. ! NB ! Not All Generators are compatible so always defer to GSCM Documents to know what generators are compatible.

Good Luck.

 

[Cajunwolf]

Simple is a component of reliability. The more shit you got the more shit you got to go wrong. Keep it simple. If clunky is simple then keep it clunky.

K.I.S.S., Keep It Simple Stupid, you learn that the first week in engineering school.