Long-term Equipment recommendations please

[flpilgrim]

Good morning all.

My wife and I have decided to pull the trigger on solar. We had a local company come out and give us a sales pitch which was...a sales pitch. So I'm going to start building our system myself and I'd like some guidance on buying quality equipment. I've been doing research for about a month in the library and on here and almost have my head wrapped around everything.

our budget is 20k for this year, we plan to expand next year.

we don't care about tying to the grid and have no inspection or permit requirements.

our current consumption ranges from 21-50 kwh per day.

all of our appliances are electric. eventually we would like to build up to complete self-sufficiency. that would mean planning on a potential 150 amp draw capability. obviously we can't afford the numerous inverters we would need for that so i'm going to begin separating our circuits out with this first stage build.

We will be mounting to our metal roof and have 20,000 square feet of south facing, ~30 degree pitch roof.

Our latitude is 38 degrees 50 min.

For batteries I like what I've read about the 18650 guy in Georgia. I can build our bank myself to save money there.

Panel brand doesn't seem to matter that much but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Inverters and electronics are where I'm stuck trying to balance my budget. Victron and Schneider seem to be the consensus bullet-proof go-to manufacturers here. I need to be able to run our well pump which draws 11 amps at 240v and the circulation fan for our wood furnace which is 5 amps at 120v. It looks like Schneider can handle 240v in one unit but Victron would require a more complicated system build. Sol-ark seems to have good reviews for their all-in-one but it looks like they've only been around 10 years or so and I could care less about managing the system through an app.

So....is there anything I'm missing here? I believe that cheaper products are generally cheaper for a reason. Should I start my budget with the best 4-6 kw inverter (and associated parts) I can afford and go from there? We're going to be buying new, warrantied and tax eligible panels and battery components.

Thanks in advance!

 

[BentleyJ]

Since your appliances are all electric an important number, in addition to the 21-50kWh daily usage, would be peak kW draw. Of course that depends somewhat on your ability and willingness to practice some manual load control like not trying to run everything all at once. On the other hand you don't want to under size the system and have to constantly worry about monitoring current or having to turn off the A/C to cook dinner on the electric stove.

Your assessment of equipment is accurate, although I would add the Outback Mojave system to the list. I'm a Schneider user and most likely would choose that Brand again if starting over. However, it is a more complicated system to install with regard to the components being separate. You would most likely need 2 inverters plus a PDP, BCS or external load disconnect, charge controllers & InsightHome.

The Sol-Ark 15K with built in 200A pass-thru, breakers and connections integrated into the bottom section would be an excellent choice.

 

[timselectric]

For batteries I like what I've read about the 18650 guy in Georgia. I can build our bank myself to save money there.

Panel brand doesn't seem to matter that much but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Correct on both.

Inverters and electronics are where I'm stuck trying to balance my budget. Victron and Schneider seem to be the consensus bullet-proof go-to manufacturers here.

Both are solid products. But are more complicated to set up.
I think that Schneider has had some issues, but has since improved.
And the only complaint with Victron is cost.

we don't care about tying to the grid and have no inspection or permit requirements.

Then you don't need any features offered by a more expensive hybrid AIO. (Sol-Ark, EG4-18KPV)
You can stick with an off grid set up.
And no permit or inspection, means you have many choices.

The easiest option would be a off grid AIO.
Preferably one that is stackable. This allows you to start small and expand in the future.
That's what a lot of us have done.

It's hard to recommend any one model, over others.
But, if you narrow your choices down to a short list.we can help you understand the differences between them.

 

[flpilgrim]

Correct on both.

Both are solid products. But are more complicated to set up.
I think that Schneider has had some issues, but has since improved.
And the only complaint with Victron is cost.


Then you don't need any features offered by a more expensive hybrid AIO. (Sol-Ark, EG4-18KPV)
You can stick with an off grid set up.
And no permit or inspection, means you have many choices.

The easiest option would be a off grid AIO.
Preferably one that is stackable. This allows you to start small and expand in the future.
That's what a lot of us have done.

It's hard to recommend any one model, over others.
But, if you narrow your choices down to a short list.we can help you understand the differences between them.

i saw your build thread, are you in KY? where did you get your 250w panels from?

 

[timselectric]

i saw your build thread, are you in KY? where did you get your 250w panels from?

Yes, Kentucky.
SanTan Solar

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[Nobodybusiness]

Good morning all.

My wife and I have decided to pull the trigger on solar. We had a local company come out and give us a sales pitch which was...a sales pitch. So I'm going to start building our system myself and I'd like some guidance on buying quality equipment. I've been doing research for about a month in the library and on here and almost have my head wrapped around everything.

our budget is 20k for this year, we plan to expand next year.

we don't care about tying to the grid and have no inspection or permit requirements.

our current consumption ranges from 21-50 kwh per day.

all of our appliances are electric. eventually we would like to build up to complete self-sufficiency. that would mean planning on a potential 150 amp draw capability. obviously we can't afford the numerous inverters we would need for that so i'm going to begin separating our circuits out with this first stage build.

We will be mounting to our metal roof and have 20,000 square feet of south facing, ~30 degree pitch roof.

Our latitude is 38 degrees 50 min.

For batteries I like what I've read about the 18650 guy in Georgia. I can build our bank myself to save money there.

Panel brand doesn't seem to matter that much but please correct me if I'm wrong.

Inverters and electronics are where I'm stuck trying to balance my budget. Victron and Schneider seem to be the consensus bullet-proof go-to manufacturers here. I need to be able to run our well pump which draws 11 amps at 240v and the circulation fan for our wood furnace which is 5 amps at 120v. It looks like Schneider can handle 240v in one unit but Victron would require a more complicated system build. Sol-ark seems to have good reviews for their all-in-one but it looks like they've only been around 10 years or so and I could care less about managing the system through an app.

So....is there anything I'm missing here? I believe that cheaper products are generally cheaper for a reason. Should I start my budget with the best 4-6 kw inverter (and associated parts) I can afford and go from there? We're going to be buying new, warrantied and tax eligible panels and battery components.

Thanks in advance!

No inspections or Grid tie.

Santan solar for used panels and Victron for the gear.
Victron is pricy but good support and good products.

Buy cells from 18650 store and DIY.

My 2 cents.

 

[Shimmy]

If you use up to 50kWh/day you will (eventually) need 2x of the Schneider XW-Pro's.

Is all the roof area in one building?

 

[Horsefly]

My current system is Schneider, but I've used Victron on two installs for others. Both Victron and Schneider are in the top tier of equipment, and will certainly remain in business for the life of the equipment. Although Schneider is rock solid stuff, they made a strategic decision years ago that they were going to cater to the installer, to the point that they are almost hostile to consumer / DIY installs. Victron is just the opposite, as they seem to provide lots of things that are clearly supportive of hobbyist. The only downside I've seen with Victron (aside from the cost, which actually isn't that much more than Schneider) is that they still have most of their inverters catering to markets outside North America (so 230VAC). Even that has been improving though.

If I were doing our system again, I would use Victron.

 

[OffGridInTheCity]

I went with lower-middle tier inverters (AIMS 12,000w inverter) and the capacitors on the control board became erratic after 25,000hrs (5 yrs) of operation. Anecdotally, I've seen an MPP Solar AIO run 8-9yrs on a particular youtube channel.

I also have higher-tier Midnite Classic charge controllers and no issue at 6yrs and counting but overall, I have an individual component, off-grid system.

My guess so far is that all electronics have some 'life' - be it 5yrs or 10yrs kind of thing. So I have direct replacements in my supplies and my system is designed to be able to put the replacements in place with minimum disruption.

So if it's relevant for you, think about replacing things in 5-10yrs. For example, perhaps leave plenty of elbow room in you're power area for new equipment in 5-10yrs that's different than current equipment or perhaps go cheaper and buy 2 x of things. For me, I went 2 x of things because I won't have to rewire - I can just unconnect/reconnect but I'm not sure it's the best approach.

 

[Hedges]

11A 240V for well pump probably needs 55A starting surge, around 13kW for a couple seconds.

Midnight Rosie is a new product we expect to be very good, considering its pedigree.

SMA Sunny Island (2x) plus Sunny Boy for AC coupled PV + optional DC coupled is what I use.
One thing that makes them so attractive is bargains on eBay and elsewhere due to DC Solar bankruptcy.
If you do build batteries, REC BMS is a compatible choice.

If I was building off-grid, I would consider 3-phase, and use 208V for what would otherwise be 240V loads.
so 3x SI in that case.

If you can put up some PV panels facing SE and SW, that should extend the hours you're not relying on battery. But if you put in enough battery for multiple days without sun, then it probably doesn't matter.

20,000 sf = 2000 m^2 = 400 kW (STC) of panels.
But you only need 50 kWh/day, likely 35 kW (STC) of panels will be sufficient in the depths of winter when you get 2 hours effective sun.
Over-panel as you find reasonable, and make sure you keep battery charge current at a reasonable rate.
Equipment such as Victron with Cerbo, Midnight Classic with Whiz Bang Jr., or any AC coupled system like SMA can regulate battery current while harvesting PV to supply loads in addition.

 

[MaikaiLifeDIY]

I just watched Will's review on this new inverter from EG4, and I'm pretty impressed. Typically I would go with Sol-Ark, but this little guy looks pretty slick and for the price a few of these might be a nice setup.

EG4 6000XP Off-Grid Inverter | 8000W PV Input | 6000W Output | 480V VOC Input | 48V 120/240V Split Phase | All-In-One Solar Inverter

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signaturesolar.com

 

[wheelman55]

Do you have some acreage to go with that 20,000 sq ft of roof? If so, a ground mount is much easier to install and maintain.

There’s a guy on the NAZ forum who consults on DIY builds. Check him out.

All top tier electronics and batteries here. Schneider, Discover, HZLA tracker. Off-grid. Installed myself with advice from consultant.

 

[Partimewages]

With all the talk of 240 volt well pumps. Is there any reason people are not going to the variable speed pumps? It would take the starting amps way down

 

[hwy17]

You're on the right track. I'm halfway into my Schneider XW starter build and if I were to start over I'd be seriously considering a midnight Rosie.

Rosie comes with the risk of being nearly a beta tester still.

Schneider comes with the risk of Schneider problems - read the threads on "Enhanced Grid Support" woes.

As a plain inverter I think the XW is still a rock solid product, but I am disillusioned about the grid mixing features. The control interface and logic is just so extremely clunky with secret menu items.

 

[rhino]

With all the talk of 240 volt well pumps. Is there any reason people are not going to the variable speed pumps? It would take the starting amps way down

Just using a Grundfos addresses that since they are soft start.

 

[rhino]

So....is there anything I'm missing here? I believe that cheaper products are generally cheaper for a reason. Should I start my budget with the best 4-6 kw inverter (and associated parts) I can afford and go from there? We're going to be buying new, warrantied and tax eligible panels and battery components.

Problem with the Victron units for the USA is it is not easy to expand in future a 120V/240V system as your power requirements increase. In order to "easily" get a 120V/240V from Victron system you'll have to have two units such as two Quattro 5kVA (one for each leg since they natively output only 120V). If you later determine that you now need more then 5kVA for each leg Victron does not recommend any DIY do that and does not even show you how. They tell you to get two of the the larger 10kVA if you outgrow your two 5kVA units.

With the units that natively output both hot legs to begin with like the Schneider XW Pro and Rosie it is easy to expand since you can just parallel additional ones when your power requirements increase. With the Midnite Rosie for instance if you need more then "7000W" later you can simply add another Rosie.

 

[flpilgrim]

Thanks for the advice everyone. we ordered a schneider and panels today. I'll start posting the build around Thanksgiving or so.

Cheers!